MAP read this and stop complaining..

[RevDevil]

If RevDevil thinks Ganzo is garbage, I have to believe he doesn't have one. I have heard the same BS about Japanese knives many years ago, Taiwan knives not too long ago, Sanrenmu and the like recently; the fact is that they make some pretty good knives. My Ganzo axis type lock G704 is rock solid and, in my opinion, a MUCH better value (not knife) than my comparable Benchmade for about 6x the price. I'm not advocating a given brand and I do buy American most of the time (because I am one, remember, many on this forum are not) but am trying to sound a warning that if policies like Benchmades' are tolerated they will spread (please see ZT MAP thread). There ARE other options.

You would be correct, I do not own one. I have seen and handled one and it was enough to keep me away. It's not exactly BS either. Those companies seem to operate in a very shady way, and I'd rather buy somethin else with my money. You can buy whatever the heck you like, if you think buyin a $12 knife is a great deal, then hooray for you. I would be willing to bet you that if you put a Benchmade up against a Ganzo, you would see an actual difference. It's not my job to convince or sway you in any way, you buy what you think is good and I'll do the same. Also, no I am certainly not a patent lawyer, but I do know that some of the Chinese companies that make those garbage pot metal, fence post, hub cap steel knives were not using the Axis lock or any other design feature in what you and I would call a legal and authorized way. Patent laws, intellectual property, and copyright law does not exist in that country. But you don't need to be a lawyer to know that, you just need to be awake..
Enjoy.

 

[Krissig12]

You would be correct, I do not own one. I have seen and handled one and it was enough to keep me away. It's not exactly BS either. Those companies seem to operate in a very shady way, and I'd rather buy somethin else with my money. You can buy whatever the heck you like, if you think buyin a $12 knife is a great deal, then hooray for you. I would be willing to bet you that if you put a Benchmade up against a Ganzo, you would see an actual difference. It's not my job to convince or sway you in any way, you buy what you think is good and I'll do the same. Also, no I am certainly not a patent lawyer, but I do know that some of the Chinese companies that make those garbage pot metal, fence post, hub cap steel knives were not using the Axis lock or any other design feature in what you and I would call a legal and authorized way. Patent laws, intellectual property, and copyright law does not exist in that country. But you don't need to be a lawyer to know that, you just need to be awake..
Enjoy.

Destroyed by the newest supermod :thumbup:

 

[jac_solar]

No not stirring anything. Just tired of seeing MAP referred to incorrectly and a bunch of folks constantly complaining. I tried to clarify what MAP was so it would be used in the right context. And still the complaining, I'm not complaining. I am used to inflation, been happening all my life. Beer used to be $5.99 a 24 pack, that same beer sells for $13.99 a 24 pack today. Who stopped buying beer? It is inflation get used to it, it will keep happening.
MAP is part of a pricing policy not a stand alone policy itself that affects pricing.
This is a forum so I can post just as much as anyone. Don't like it go away. But some we are how we are close to 90 posts, think this is my 4th.

BTW
Everyone thinks we (knife collectors, enthusiasts) really drive these companies' business. We don't. I see knives all day long carried by people who probably own just that one knife. We are not that important, we are just vocal. I doubt BM give a crap what we think, we are just a fraction of their business. Now considered it stirred.

Oh and meh? Really? Find a better expression it is pretty lame.

Did the beer suddenly increase to 14$ one day, or did it gradually increase?

 

[mr_anderson]

When Benchmade did the MAP pricing thing I stopped buying their knives. They lost me as a consumer. I was set to buy a ZT 0562 before this, now I see the price went up for me $40 overnight. I'm not interested anymore and probably wont buy any knives any time soon now. They're just favoring small retailer dealers over their consumers. I'm speaking with my money by not spending it. These were likely the same dealers they had to cut off LEs from before they were selling 3 or 4 to each of their friends to flip online. At the end of the day, they're just doing something that's anti consumer. It doesn't matter what business sense it makes between them and their dealers, or how legal it is. We all know they're artificially inflating prices now. There's no increase in perceived value because we know they just caused artificial increases in price.

You sir are a fail.

 

[katanas]

Ok, I have NO desire to get into a competition with anyone here. I view some of the provisions of the code differently (thank you for linking), however that is really not my point (I guess I didn't make it very clearly ). SO, here goes. If any of you have done a lot grocery shopping the last few years, you will have noticed at least a few things; 1) the Gummint says almost NO inflation-BULL , 2) although prices of many items haven't changed much, two things are obvious-what you get for the price is less (eg tuna, coffee, chicken wings etc) this is the (I HATE to say it because I really like them) Kershaw 3cr syndrome, 3) and here, I believe, this discussion comes in, the SALE price is not as low as it used to be. The MSRP has not changed much but the deals one used to get are not there. This is the most insidious inflation I have seen in my 68 yrs. So, of course you should all decide for yourselves where you wish to spend your hard earned money and whether you think a given company such as BM is raising prices deviously or not, this quiet erosion of our purchasing power (praise God I can afford it, but I have not lost sight of those who cannot) should be a matter of concern for ourselves and, most especially, our posterity. Thank all of you (yeah, even you Skywalker31 and RevDevil, who may be older than you seem, but I believe I was running a co. with patent and copyright concerns when you were, well, very young I have been awake a VERY long time and business is rarely full of fairness, nice as that would be-kumbaya ) for a vigorous discussion of a topic more important than we may think. Thanks OP

 

[mr_anderson]

If RevDevil thinks Ganzo is garbage, I have to believe he doesn't have one. I have heard the same BS about Japanese knives many years ago, Taiwan knives not too long ago, Sanrenmu and the like recently; the fact is that they make some pretty good knives. My Ganzo axis type lock G704 is rock solid and, in my opinion, a MUCH better value (not knife) than my comparable Benchmade for about 6x the price. I'm not advocating a given brand and I do buy American most of the time (because I am one, remember, many on this forum are not) but am trying to sound a warning that if policies like Benchmades' are tolerated they will spread (please see ZT MAP thread). There ARE other options.

I just looked at them, they are crap, not to mention they stole the axis lock. Yes there are other options but I wouldn't buy these and if given one I would throw it away, they are akin to Mtech.

 

[mr_anderson]

skywalker31, it appears the hk14205 is discontinued. Unless you are a patent lawyer, and can certify differently, i believe it is now public domain. I also believe the ganzo axis lock is sufficiently different to negate infringement. Calling a knife with more than a few positive reviews a pos is, at best, disingenuous. As for spitting in bms face, i have no idea where you got that. I like the product but, like many others, dislike their latest business practice; it will spread and that is the insidious aspect. I merely wished to point out that there are other options, as you mentioned but did not give examples, which is not overly helpful.

hahahahahaha

 

[mr_anderson]

Ok, I have NO desire to get into a competition with anyone here. I view some of the provisions of the code differently (thank you for linking), however that is really not my point (I guess I didn't make it very clearly ). SO, here goes. If any of you have done a lot grocery shopping the last few years, you will have noticed at least a few things; 1) the Gummint says almost NO inflation-BULL , 2) although prices of many items haven't changed much, two things are obvious-what you get for the price is less (eg tuna, coffee, chicken wings etc) this is the (I HATE to say it because I really like them) Kershaw 3cr syndrome, 3) and here, I believe, this discussion comes in, the SALE price is not as low as it used to be. The MSRP has not changed much but the deals one used to get are not there. This is the most insidious inflation I have seen in my 68 yrs. So, of course you should all decide for yourselves where you wish to spend your hard earned money and whether you think a given company such as BM is raising prices deviously or not, this quiet erosion of our purchasing power (praise God I can afford it, but I have not lost sight of those who cannot) should be a matter of concern for ourselves and, most especially, our posterity. Thank all of you (yeah, even you Skywalker31 ) for a vigorous discussion of a topic more important than we may think. Thanks OP

More regurgitated Kershaw nonsense from the interwebs. People need to get some new material and stop listening to the so called "experts" on youtube, because some of them don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

 

[Skywalker31]

...

Thank all of you (yeah, even you Skywalker31 ) for a vigorous discussion of a topic more important than we may think. Thanks OP

Haha, a little discussion is never a bad thing. Thanks for throwing your hat in the ring as well, echo chambers are no bueno and it's always good to hear some other opinions.

Katanas, I'll be the first to line up next to you to pick up some new BMs if corporate ever gets their head out of the clouds; I think we can agree on that much at least.

Cheers!

 

[katanas]

mr_anderson: what the H-ll are you talking about? I have NO idea what your, obvious, problem with my posts is. You just looked at them (Ganzo) where (is there a knife store open near you?)? hahahaha HUH? Kershaw what? I have no problem with criticism, but I have no idea what you are trying to say except to throw out obvious ridicule, which is OK if you are under 12. And Skywalker31 you are right, at least that :thumbup:

 

[StinkyTool]

Jesus, this discussion has been eye-opening. Who stole the toilet design? That's what I want to know. Whoever designed the first toilet should own that design and every toilet after should be shaped differently.

 

[Bushido185]

I think what many fail to see is Benchmade enforced MAP to help the little guy that doesn't have an online presence. They also increased their overall market share by adding distributors. Lots of local shops now carry Benchmade that didn't before.

 

[Skywalker31]

I think what many fail to see is Benchmade enforced MAP to help the little guy that doesn't have an online presence. They also increased their overall market share by adding distributors. Lots of local shops now carry Benchmade that didn't before.

Curious as to where you heard this? I'm not on here all the time, but I do try an pay attention around general and the BM & spyderco subforums, as well as BM's own company forum - and there was absolutely no explanation of the move that I ever saw from the company.

 

[Bushido185]

Curious as to where you heard this? I'm not on here all the time, but I do try an pay attention around general and the BM & spyderco subforums, as well as BM's own company forum - and there was absolutely no explanation of the move that I ever saw from the company.

It's not what I've heard but what I've seen. Many more shops are now carrying BM in my area. When I ask them why they generally bring up the new MAP enforcement as a primary reason, that and quality of course.

 

[RevDevil]

I think what many fail to see is Benchmade enforced MAP to help the little guy that doesn't have an online presence. They also increased their overall market share by adding distributors. Lots of local shops now carry Benchmade that didn't before.

Some of the "little guys" need some basic retail training then. I've gone into plenty of gun shops where all they sell are Benchmade knives, they were all priced at the very least $15-$30 over MSRP. That is surely not the fault of the online retailers is it? It's also not the fault of the customer that comparison shops.

 

[Bushido185]

Some of the "little guys" need some basic retail training then. I've gone into plenty of gun shops where all they sell are Benchmade knives, they were all priced at the very leave $15-$30 over MSRP. That is surely not the fault of the online retailers is it? It's also not the fault of the customer that comparison shops.

You are right, I've seen the same thing. Almost passed out seeing my Bedlam 8600 going for $300 at a local gun shop.

 

[mr_anderson]

mr_anderson: what the H-ll are you talking about? I have NO idea what your, obvious, problem with my posts is. You just looked at them (Ganzo) where (is there a knife store open near you?)? hahahaha HUH? Kershaw what? I have no problem with criticism, but I have no idea what you are trying to say except to throw out obvious ridicule, which is OK if you are under 12. And Skywalker31 you are right, at least that :thumbup:

I don't have to "hold" one to know it's crap. rc hardness 57 +- 2? Chinese 440 is CRAP. Their "axis" lock is a blatant ripoff, plain and simple, they couldn't come up with something original, so they stole something, just like 98% of all the chinese knives out there. Reate seems to be doing some good stuff, but they are in the minority.

 

[StinkyTool]

I don't have to "hold" one to know it's crap. rc hardness 57 +- 2? Chinese 440 is CRAP. Their "axis" lock is a blatant ripoff, plain and simple, they couldn't come up with something original, so they stole something, just like 98% of all the chinese knives out there. Reate seems to be doing some good stuff, but they are in the minority.

You're right. You know what else is getting ripped off everywhere? The B.L.T. I see that delicious sandwich at so many restaurants and no credit goes to the inventor. We should all come together and find Mr. B.L.T. so he can get royalties from all the B.L.T. idea using restaurants who are ripping off his sandwich idea along with the B.L.T. variants - and we'll throw the non-compliant restaurant owners and chefs behind bars indefinitely!!! Who's with me?!