MAP read this and stop complaining..

K.O.D. said:
Ha speaking of the ZT map thing, its true. I had been looking at the 0770CF last night on kershawguy.com, added it to cart. Paid for it today (not 5 min ago) and paid the $145 it was in my cart from yesterday. Go back and look after ordering, its now $180. I feel quite lucky.
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I've gone through several ZT dealers' websites (BHQ, KC, GPK, etc.) and compared to just 1-2 days ago only KnifeWorks is still selling it below MAP. So, I'd hurry if you want one at a big discount. It's only a matter of time before KW complies. All others that I've looked at have removed the "Add to cart for special pricing" at 30%-35% off of MSRP instead of 20%.
 
Bottom line is MAP works great when it is an industry standard (as in the fly fishing market). When one or two companies implement it when it is not an industry standard, you come off as a price gouger. I have no problem with companies using MAP pricing, but you better to it from the start. (Exactly the OPPOSITE as Benchmade did.)
 
So much for the "stop complaining" part of this thread.

I think that we as a country have acquired a sense of entitlement to purchase products at prices made possible only by exploiting workers -- American and foreign -- and the environment.

Benchmade has to sell products in a highly competitive market. There are certainly more knives of more types and styles and sizes and steels than at any time in history. And many of these knives come extremely -- e x t r e m e l y -- cheap, only because someone else is paying for a major cost of production. There is no way in this marketplace that Benchmade can charge more than their knives are worth.

And how many schumcks go into a brick and mortar store to fondle and check out the knives, take advantage of the seller's expertise, and then leave to buy a knife at cheap internet prices from people who have little overhead and who benefit from the B&M store's presence, costs of selling and expertise. Lots. They brag about it on this forum all the time.

Benchmade is a great American company that has benefited the knife industry greatly. But whiners gotta whine.
 
Sometimes it is nice to get to pick out a knife that won't have to immediately be sent back to the factory to have it's blade centered.
It is kind of a downer though to see the knife you paid $120 for, being offered at your favorite online store for $79. I could use the savings to pay for my gas for an entire week.
I could take my wife out to eat.........nah.
 
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I guess I am just patient. I have bought 3 Benchmades in the past 10 months since the supposed price increase and have yet to pay the increased price, and the suck part is they all arrived perfect.
Win.
 
Twindog said:
So much for the "stop complaining" part of this thread.

I think that we as a country have acquired a sense of entitlement to purchase products at prices made possible only by exploiting workers -- American and foreign -- and the environment.

Benchmade has to sell products in a highly competitive market. There are certainly more knives of more types and styles and sizes and steels than at any time in history. And many of these knives come extremely -- e x t r e m e l y -- cheap, only because someone else is paying for a major cost of production. There is no way in this marketplace that Benchmade can charge more than their knives are worth.

And how many schumcks go into a brick and mortar store to fondle and check out the knives, take advantage of the seller's expertise, and then leave to buy a knife at cheap internet prices from people who have little overhead and who benefit from the B&M store's presence, costs of selling and expertise. Lots. They brag about it on this forum all the time.

Benchmade is a great American company that has benefited the knife industry greatly. But whiners gotta whine.
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You have a point schmuck.... (who DOESN'T go fondle in person, then buy for 40% less on the internet?! I'm all for supporting mom and pop shops, but I'm not paying $85 for a $40 knife. Plus - I don't need the shop owner's "expertise". I just want to see the knife in person. Ahh, but that's a whole 'nother, separate, disjointed can o' worms...)

"There is no way in this marketplace that Benchmade can charge more than their knives are worth."

I disagree. They do it every day.
 
skyhorse said:
Not complaining but Benchmade lost tons of customers and that's a fact.
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If this is the case, then it seems like a reasonable response from the customers. When a company prices itself above the competition for similar value, sales volume has to fall. Perhaps the increased prices will make up for it. Not from my wallet.
 
What ever the market will bear......the American way. If Benchmade has over priced themselves and they aren't selling, then the price will fall. Or they will go broke. Like wise if they are selling more than they can produce with the manpower and equipment that they have. They either need to grow or raise their prices to stabilize the market.
 
craytab said:
...It might have been nice for all of us if you took the time to understand what BMs pricing policy is before you started this thread. I am sure not going to take the time to explain it to you. If you care, there are a bunch of threads on this subject. Go look them up yourself.
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Indeed. There are also statements made by BM management that address why they were doing this and exactly what the reason for it was (to increase perceived value of the brand).

craytab said:
The bottom line is this: Benchmade's prices went up by 20%-30% for the end consumer. Are they worth that price? Only the consumer can make that call. For the most part, the new prices put Benchmade out of what I am willing to spend for the quality of product produced.
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Yep. Call it what you want, but the bottom line is that every dealer that I bought BM from increased the cost to me by 20% - 30% at the direction and mandate of BM. IMHO, this moved the product from decent value to poor value.

By the way, the mandate does not require that companies sell the product for MSRP. They are allowed a maximum discount of 15% or thereabouts IIRC. So the price seen on the BM site will be a bit more than a discounting dealers price but that dealer price will be significantly more than it was prior to the BM mandate.

An example:
  1. I bought a BM 7505-132 for the pre-mandate price of $367 (discount of roughly 40%) from KW.
  2. The price post-mandate rose to $510 (discount of 15%).
  3. The MSRP is $600.


[Edit: A company like KW would prefer to sell the knives at a bigger discount if they can because they thrive on volume and this gives them an advantage over competition. But if they cannot discount the item as aggressively as they want, they lose that advantage and possibly lose money in the long run even though they may make more money per item in the short run. See Wal-Mart as an extreme example of this business philosophy. They were not happy about the mandate and actually drug their feet as long as they could before implementing the mandate. They were one of the last BM eDealers to do what BM required.

I have not bought a single new BM (although I bought a couple cheaper from the secondary market) since this went into effect. This also lost business for KW from me as they are no longer my go-to company, through no fault of their own, since I no longer buy BM. I strongly suspect I am not alone here.]

Seriously, this has been discussed and analyzed ad nauseum here and in the media. And the gross, unfiltered, info is readily available for anyone who would like to understand what really took place.

JMO.
 
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Twindog said:
So much for the "stop complaining" part of this thread.

I think that we as a country have acquired a sense of entitlement to purchase products at prices made possible only by exploiting workers -- American and foreign -- and the environment.

Benchmade has to sell products in a highly competitive market. There are certainly more knives of more types and styles and sizes and steels than at any time in history. And many of these knives come extremely -- e x t r e m e l y -- cheap, only because someone else is paying for a major cost of production. There is no way in this marketplace that Benchmade can charge more than their knives are worth.

And how many schumcks go into a brick and mortar store to fondle and check out the knives, take advantage of the seller's expertise, and then leave to buy a knife at cheap internet prices from people who have little overhead and who benefit from the B&M store's presence, costs of selling and expertise. Lots. They brag about it on this forum all the time.

Benchmade is a great American company that has benefited the knife industry greatly. But whiners gotta whine.
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Agreed, however, the only B&M that sell BM near me sells a mini grip for 109.99! Yeah right. Too many better options at that price point that are better IMO.
 
Twindog said:
So much for the "stop complaining" part of this thread.

I think that we as a country have acquired a sense of entitlement to purchase products at prices made possible only by exploiting workers -- American and foreign -- and the environment.

Benchmade has to sell products in a highly competitive market. There are certainly more knives of more types and styles and sizes and steels than at any time in history. And many of these knives come extremely -- e x t r e m e l y -- cheap, only because someone else is paying for a major cost of production. There is no way in this marketplace that Benchmade can charge more than their knives are worth.

And how many schumcks go into a brick and mortar store to fondle and check out the knives, take advantage of the seller's expertise, and then leave to buy a knife at cheap internet prices from people who have little overhead and who benefit from the B&M store's presence, costs of selling and expertise. Lots. They brag about it on this forum all the time.

Benchmade is a great American company that has benefited the knife industry greatly. But whiners gotta whine.
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Benchmade isn't making any more money than before, so i don't think the "production costs" are the reason for the increased prices. The dealers are pocketing the extra money.
 
stabman said:
Simple solution: get a job that pays 33% more. :)
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This is probably the answer. Unfortunately, the days of below MAP for ZT's seems to be gone now too :(. Just noticed the cost of a ZT 560 is now $260 versus $212 at one of the online knife places.

Someone once said in another thread about MAP that we can thank the big box stores for this kind of online crackdown. They (big boxes) want customers to pay to FULL MSRP and these internet guys are/were ruining their business. I don't blame mom and pop shops for wanting some standardization, but when the big stores get involved we all literally "pay the price".
 
Thank God!!

I was just thinking to myself that I needed to stop buying so many ZT knives.

All joking aside, I recently tried to list a 0770CF for sale. Immediately I received a PM notifying me that anyone could get one for much less, (brand new on Amazon) than I had it listed. I wound up having a conversation with that gentleman for a while talking about how ZT's decline in value very rapidly. However, (and this is key to my point) I was still willing to take the price cut to get the money for another ZT purchase. Now that they have employed the same tactics as Benchmade, I think I'll refrain from buying another new ZT until something really catches my eye. I simply refuse to buy a knife strictly because their value has been artificially inflated. The one thing you have to remember in this market is that the "End User" is the person that is ultimately buying your knives.
 
katanas said:
Do what I did, go Ganzo knives. Some find this terrible, but this customer abuse will spread (and appears to be already) if not fought. Vote with your $$$.
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Going from great to garbage isn't going to fix the potential issue for most people here.
 
So is ZT more strictly enforcing their MAP policy going to aid the sale of Benchmades? For example, a $166 Axis Striker now seems suddenly much more reasonable when compared to its opposite number in the ZT product line.
We now have an interesting choice, fully welcome Benchmade back into the fold and forgive them for MAP because ZT's doing it too, or boycott both brands.

Honestly, I see MAP pricing hurting ZT far worse the Benchmade. Benchmade has all of those military contracts to fund the company with an there are a lot of average workers who still buy them. ZT does not have those contracts, and is in a way, a more collector-oriented brand. It stands to reason that upseting one's base does not bode well for a company, and I don't think ZT's customer base will be as forgiving as Benchmade's when they find out that they cannot afford to purchase as many ZT's as before.

Granted ZT has many of us hooked, myself included. I don't think that it is a coincidence that enforcement of ZT's existing MAP policy came when several new models are set to be released.
 
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