Martial Arts question

Cuts said:
I hear carrying the H.E.S.T eliminates the need to train in any Martial Art......from self defense, to popping a cold one open after the fight, the H.E.S.T does it all.............................:D
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That's why want the Hest. The opener :). And that it's the biggest EDC blade that's legal. I'm still gonna get an Izula and RC4 or 6. :D
 
Boats said:
Here's my take. I have always been a tall and imposing guy. My mother wouldn't "let me" learn how to fight and my father went along. So, I got to learn how to scrap the old fashioned way, trial and error. Running is not always an option, so I figure it is better to bring something to that unfortunate situation than nothing.

Step one to avoiding fights, courtesy of hard lessons in the employ of Uncle Sugar--don't get publicly intoxicated. This is the surest bet for an ass kicking.

Step Two--Never fight over a woman. The only ones who are worth it are mothers (who are present) fiancees, wives and daughters. All others need not apply unless you have to step in to prevent a crime.

Step three is to not fly solo. If your judgment is impaired, someone along with you, preferably of lesser courage, will probably back you down.

I am trained in escrima and in firearms use. I am not going to fight anyone any longer. If they are still escalating while I am trying my damndest to cool things down, you'll be facing the muzzle of a 1911A1 wherever I can carry and Benchmade 610 wherever I cannot. Fighting fair is for suckers. Wait until you can articulate reasonable fear for the life and limb or yourself or others with you and then end it.

In light of my experience, my eldest son and my daughter have been studying Muay Thai since they were each five. My now eight year old son is currently at the point where he can kick or knee strike a heavy bag 50 times a side without getting winded and the bag pops. He is currently putting together low kick, elbow strike, and head butt combos. He will spar when he is 16 if he keeps at it. My daughter, now six is learning spacing, balance, and constant movement while keeping her guard up and targeting shin kicks while maintaining her footing. Her instructor says that all martial arts are the 3000 year old pursuit of not taking a kick to the groin or a strike to the throat. Yes, that is what passes for comedy in a gym.

When my son is a teenager, we'll fold in some ground pounding, with judo and jujitsu being the leading candidates.

However, the most important thing is to learn situational awareness. The best outcome to a fight is to completely avoid it. My son is training up to hopefully spare him some of the knocks I took and I want my daughter's inevitable boyfriends to fear what she could do to them in the back of their minds. Neither of them have, or will ever, earn a "belt ranking" in MT. They will simply know how to take some one apart in time.

Sorry for getting longwinded, but I sort of agree and disagree with Jeff. Run if you can, but fight if you must. I recommend studying "no bullshit" martial arts that focus on practicality rather than form and self empowerment. Muay Thai is a live fighting art, especially when you put head attacking back into the mix, which is illegal in the ring. Other practical arts include Krav Maga, Sambo, Filipino Martial Arts, and some MMA instruction.

Right now, MMA is flavor of the month, but train credibly. Most of that stuff is ring oriented and focuses on one opponent and no situational awareness. Don't get caught up in the opinion that a pure sport fighting discipline is instantly applicable to outside reality.
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I appreicate the input Boats, and it is well said. When I was younger, I got into a lot of scrapes, my dad being 5'4", but an ex navy boxer... we he could hit like a mule. I am about 6' but my freshman year in High School, I tipped the scales at around 105lbs, and I was a pretty decent punching bag. :/

After the Army, and I was a bit older, I still avg around 135. My job took me places where someone white is very unwelcomed at all hours, and I was on the losing end of that a couple of times, following my Bosses advice, just dont resist, give them youe wallet, and you'll be fine. After the second time of getting the crap kicked out of me follow his advice, I 1) quit, and 2) never fought if I had a way out, but if I didnt, then I didnt back down.
Now at 47, I am not getting into fights, thou I have had a couple of close calls while out with my son, and a couple of times out with my wife. The local area is getting a bit rough around the edges.

Anyways, I am 47, and I am just looking to.... get fit? To try something challenging? Try something different? It's been a rough couple of years, and I am looking to make some changes, so I made a list of 5 positive things I really wanted to do, and MA just happened to be one of them. No UFC for this guy... just something new.

Now I am the one who is sorry for being long winded. :rolleyes:

Thanks again everyone,
MrC
 
MrCoffee said:
Ok, I guess I wasn't clear about my intentions. I alway walk/run away from a fight unless I have no choice (i.e. cant get away or a family member is in danger of harm). Not what I was talking about. I looked up Aikido on the web, and I am trying to understand the style verses other I have seen and I can't quite picture it. But two of my co worker both study it (different schools) and I was talking to one about fitness, and different styles of Martial Arts. His Dojo is offering a beginners class, and he offered to pay for it for me, if I would like to give it a try. 16 weeks of free training. And I was just wondering what I might expect for styles, etc.

Oh and FYI, I trust the guy offering, it won't be a "kick the crap out of the newbie" class or anything like that.
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For 16 weeks of free training I would DEFINITELY do it. Aikido is a very pretty form of fighting with a wonderful philosophical aspect to it. To me here is a Taoist element concerning the balance of energy, and force.

If its free, sure get your feet wet.

If its true street defense you are looking for, its hard to be Brazilian jui jitsu or Krav Maga. Krav maga is easy to learn, somewhat instinctive and is used by many military / police forces because of those reasons.

Im with Jeff... don't fight even if you can. Under all circumstances there is very little worth losing life or limb. I also agree that style may not mean much in a street fight. That's why I like fighting systems that are kind of down and dirty (krav maga). I go for knees, eyes, and crotch shots... and that's when Im fighting fair! :) lol...

By the way, Steven Segal's base style is aikido... you see it in many of the throws and defensive moves... (horrible actor... just references to give you an idea of what it looks like).

But I am FAR from an expert. :) YMMV
 
MrCoffee said:
Ok, I guess I wasn't clear about my intentions. I alway walk/run away from a fight unless I have no choice (i.e. cant get away or a family member is in danger of harm). Not what I was talking about. I looked up Aikido on the web, and I am trying to understand the style verses other I have seen and I can't quite picture it. But two of my co worker both study it (different schools) and I was talking to one about fitness, and different styles of Martial Arts. His Dojo is offering a beginners class, and he offered to pay for it for me, if I would like to give it a try. 16 weeks of free training. And I was just wondering what I might expect for styles, etc.

Oh and FYI, I trust the guy offering, it won't be a "kick the crap out of the newbie" class or anything like that.
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For 16 weeks of free training I would DEFINITELY do it. Shoot learning is always fun! Aikido is a very pretty form of fighting with a wonderful philosophical aspect to it. To me there is a Taoist element concerning the balance of energy, and force.

If its free, sure get your feet wet.

If its true street defense you are looking for, its hard to be Brazilian jui jitsu or Krav Maga. Krav maga is easy to learn, somewhat instinctive and is used by many military / police forces because of those reasons.

Im with Jeff... don't fight even if you can. Under all circumstances there is very little worth losing life or limb. I also agree that style may not mean much in a street fight. That's why I like fighting systems that are kind of down and dirty (krav maga). I go for knees, eyes, and crotch shots... and that's when Im fighting fair! :) lol...

By the way, Steven Segal's base style is aikido... you see it in many of the throws and defensive moves... (horrible actor... just references to give you an idea of what it looks like).

But I am FAR from an expert. :) YMMV
 
First, I'd like to say that I agree with most everything that has been said thus far.

I've studied Goju Ryu Karate twice in my life...when I was a child for 6 years and I just started training again about a year and a half ago. I've also done pretty extensive research about various styles, for my own purposes.

There are a few key points that I feel I should mention.

1) The right style is whatever style and Dojo/Gym works for you...the only style I really don't like is Isshin Ryu - IMHO every example I've ever seen has been garbage.

2) Don't fight ever...but if you have no choice, use your strongest technique to the weakest point (i.e. snap kick to nuts, punch to throat, palm strike to temples, Kimura lock, etc). If someone has practiced 1,000 techniques once they will be much less damaging than someone who has practiced 1 technique 1,000 times.

3) A belt is to hold up your pants, and accolades are to fill your shelves...period. Great example: Jean-Claude Van Dam got the shit kicked out of him by Chuck Zito one time.

4) If you train like you fight, then you will fight like you train, so train hard enough to make yourself hurt every time...then train harder next time. If your style is too esoteric to apply, then practice it until you understand it...if you have a question, "Your answer is on the dojo floor" - Master John Roseberry

5) The more difficult it is to train, the better the school. There is no magic bullet (besides maybe an actual bullet) to becoming a great trained fighter. Instead, this comes with years of no-frills training. Often times, a smaller, more austere school with an experienced instructor, less kids classes and NO AIR CONDITIONING (hehe) will translate into more effective training.

As far as style comparison is concerned, Aikido was pretty much already covered pretty accurately so I'll offer a brief statement about Karate (since it is what I know best). Most styles of Karate put a fairly strong emphasis on developing internal strength (some common threads with Aikido philosophy) as well as external strength. Many styles also stress strong striking techniques (UNLIKE Aikido) and "in fighting" (unlike many other striking MA styles). Some, Like Shotokan, emphasize higher stances and more linear movement; While others, like Goju, emphasize deep stances and more circular movement (another little common thread with Aikido). Goju Ryu, which was developed in Okinawa by Master Miyagi, also tends to be very esoteric and include many open hand strikes due to strong historical ties to the White Crane school of King Fu. When the Japanese adapted Karate to their culture ( i.e. Shotokan, Goju Kai...), They closed their hands, made the techniques more accessible to newer students, and put a greater emphasis on free sparring.

So that's my unnecessarily long piece. I wish you good luck and prosperous training!
 
R.A.T. said:
45ACP is better than 9MM. Glocks are better than 1911s. If anyone doesn't like those facts, then we'll fight about it.
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I'm with you on the Glock part :thumbup: But as far as 9mm vs .45acp... Yes the .45 has more knock down but it's all in shot placement;) Kill the head..the body dies :cool: Don't get me wrong .45ACP is Awsome & I like it but I Love my 9mm (G19)
As for the MA question - I studied Shaolin Kung-fu & Modern Arnis. Kung-fu looks good but Arnis is more practical (stick & knife fighting ) & Small circle JuJitsu
You got to remember MA is kinda like dancing - Each form is a set of moves you learn over & over. In a Street fight these Forms are usually useless, the street fighter doesn't have a set of moves, he just goes for what ever he can hit & you will get monkey stomped if you try to use it LOL ! Don't get me wrong MA is good exercise & will teach you some useful skills but don't just depend on MA to save you in a fight .
 
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There are many ways and styles to gain a well rounded self defense. There are also many opinions on how to attain this, and different ways work better for different people.

No matter which art or combination you choose, two things you definately need are a plan on the ground and a plan on your feet. A lot of guys overlook the ground game in favor of only striking, but this can leave even a great fighter vulnerable should things hit the floor(and they often do). I myself am mainly a jiu jitsu guy...so I'm big on ground game, but you also should understand the associated risks involved with taking things to the ground.

Another recommendation I have is to choose an art where you actually contact people. I lot of martial arts "classes" don't involve any contact. You can't learn to fight if you don't actually fight much like you can't learn the piano without actually hitting some keys...
 
To me, free training w/o contracts means that they not only want the opportunity to impress you, but also want to give you a way out if it is consistently too difficult for most people...this is a good sign if you feel like learning a thing or two! Go for it!
 
Slidetechnik said:
There are many ways and styles to gain a well rounded self defense. There are also many opinions on how to attain this, and different ways work better for different people.

Another recommendation I have is to choose an art where you actually contact people. I lot of martial arts "classes" don't involve any contact. You can't learn to fight if you don't actually fight much like you can't learn the piano without actually hitting some keys...
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Exactly you need to spar. Or it's all a waste or time except for the conditioning. But when you full contact spar for 2 min you will be more winded than a whole 1/2 workout if you are both equal. MMA is the flavor because when you train you don't train to fight 4 ppl like Bruce Lee. You need to beable to beat one :). But I always figure the better shape I'm in the better I can fight. The better a$$ whooping I can take. :D. IME most fights when amateur the person gets knocked out or you both end up on the ground. The thing about wrestling you can get the collage to pay for or part of you education =$$$. Aikido will be fun. Learn some throws get in shape fun fun
 
Ive studied Krav Maga for about 5 years now. It wasn't my first exposure to organized training but I like to refer to it as the realization of a long time search for a system that works. IMO, there is no other "real-world" fighting system that emphasizes the "Do-Not-Quit" and survive/win at all costs methedology like KM. The problem is it is mostly designed for military/LEO use...there are no real civilian applications.

Krav Maga is not a sport and one of its core principles is to stop the fight as fast as possible with the understanding that the longer the fight goes the more of a chance you have of being injured or killed. It involves the use of strikes, breaks, chokes, improvised weapons, and most of all situational awareness and tactical thought. The training focuses on overcoming both one-on-one scenarios and multiple attackers. They also do not allow you to think you're a one man army...you do learn that you will get hurt but temper that with another principle (piggy-backing on the do-not quit) focus on your objective and continue the fight with focus on your survival, period.

As an aside, Ive also been involved with Modern Army Combatives and the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP). Again reality based systems with no civilian aplication...and all based around the same concept...win at all costs.

Scrapping on the ground with anyone is a risky premise, in any event. It should be avoided at all costs. As has been mentioned here...walk away if you can, fight if you must, survive at all costs.

If you find yourself in a fair fight...your tactics suck.
 
I have two rules which have served me better for self-defense than any skill I have:

1) Don't be an asshole.

2) Don't go where assholes go.

I fail all the time at rule 1, but since I avoid going where assholes go, I stay pretty safe in a very violent town. I think those rules will keep you much safer than any fighting skill, whether it's bare hands or using weapons.

That's not to say that fighting skills are useless or pointless. Far from it. But they form a very small fraction of what's really important when it comes to keeping you and yours safe.

You may want to visit this site: http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com

It's a lot to read, but well worth it and it may save your life.
 
shangchi108 said:
I have two rules which have served me better for self-defense than any skill I have:

1) Don't be an asshole.

2) Don't go where assholes go.

I fail all the time at rule 1, but since I avoid going where assholes go, I stay pretty safe in a very violent town. I think those rules will keep you much safer than any fighting skill, whether it's bare hands or using weapons.

That's not to say that fighting skills are useless or pointless. Far from it. But they form a very small fraction of what's really important when it comes to keeping you and yours safe.
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Absolutely agree...training on your own time is your business and is not an answer but like a craftsman has a toolbox...it gives you one more tool to handle a potential situation.

Don't go where assholes go (bars, for example) is great advice...and one I usually follow. At least if you must go to a bar...go early and leave early as well. Recognizing a shitty situation (awareness) and departing before it escalates (intelligence) or simply breaking contact are some of the critical decisions in avoiding a problem in the first place.

Well said...

'Fuzz
 
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My daughter is a 3rd degree black belt in Japaese Ju Jitsu. Pull anything on her less then 10ft. away, and by the time you hit the ground she will have broken minimum of 3 appendages at the joint.
 
MrCoffee said:
Ok, thank you everyone for your input. I went to the dojo, and observed a class tonight, and I found it very very different then any I have looked into before.

First off, when i walked in, everyone was stretching (expected that), and after a bit, someone noticed me watching and she came over and invited me in. They finished the warm up and started the class. It was pretty easy to tell who had been in the class and who was new right off. The instructor showed a example then everyone paired off and tried it. He only interfered when you had a mis step then he slow the pair down and showed them the correct hold, grip, steps... whatever and then let them go again.

The hour I was there they only worked on three moves, but they worked at them hard. After that, the instructor came over and introduced himself, and asked me if I had any questions, and we talked for a bit. it seems that in the traditional Aikido, there is no beginner, advance break out of the class. Everyone works together, reguardless of level. He warned me that the first few months are a bit furstrating for that reason, and that moving up levels (belts) took quite a bit longer then other MA. They way they are able to keep the group together like that is the speed at which you attack (as the aggressor) decides how the fast the move is, and if the person is new and just getting the move, he will slow things down, simply by stepping back. It sounds weird, but watching it, it worked very well. The balance and general fitness of the group, especially the people that were older then I am, was impressive.

So I am going to take my friend up on his offer, and try the 16 weeks. As the same token, I am going to look at other Dojos (thou we truly only have 3 in my area). Hell if I can get back some of my balance, and loose a few pounds of fat, AND it gets me out of watching the kids a couple of nights a week, I got nothing to lose :)
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:thumbup::thumbup:
 
This is my Aikido instructor. She's like a 69th degree black belt. She can kick your ass even if you're not even in the room with her.

Lucy_Liu.jpg
 
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