Maxace IP Theft Claim

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FortyTwoBlades said:
I think the Sebenza has a much more distinct choice and the outright copying of the outline combined with the blue thumb stud makes those pretty clear attempts to copycat the Sebenza. While the Sebenza is a very simple design, aesthetically, it's also pretty specific in its stylistic choices. If you The Honey Badger/Balance designs are sort of what you'd get if you just took the individual functional design features and tossed them into an automated "design machine" that slapped them together. They have an aesthetic "skin" applied over those features, but the features themselves are all pretty blandly generic from a functional design standpoint, with little in the way of aesthetic decisions if you took away things like the texturing.

That's not to say that it's impossible for one to be derivative of the other, but there were clear choices made to differentiate the two aesthetically, whereas with the 910 it's clear that the opposite occurred.

Derivative designs can be a real grey area, but it's worth noting that that which is legal is not necessarily that which is just, and in this case there's no legal standing on Maxace's end unless the Honey Badger is copying a patented functional feature of the Balance or is using a non-functional aesthetic element that's trademarked by Maxace.
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What about the Land 910 linerlock?

Btw I am not arguing that the Land is ok or just, it’s clearly not.

We don’t really know if H Badger was copied off the Maxace as the Linerlock SRM land was copied off the crk 21. To me it looks like a fairly exact copy of the Maxace. Granted we don’t know where this design originally came from.

I for now will likely file it under the same feelings I have over the 910 Land, while it is not purporting to be a Sebenza it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Derivative designs abound and that I am largely fine with. Also there seems to be some knives where designs can be nearly exactly similar and no one bats an eyelash; ie: the Emerson CQC7 and the Protech TR-1.

I just wonder how much these feelings are tied to brand loyalty/the China thing. I do know that if a knife is knocking off a design I have particular feelings attached to I am more likely to feel revulsion to it.

I recognize that is all based on personal bias though.

Edit to add: I also know alot of people will never buy a SanRenMu specifically because of the 710 and 910 being Sebenza clones. They would chastise SRM for this.

At the same time many people already have grown to like WE knives. Would they treat WE knives the same as SRM if they found out that WE’s parent company WaYeah Knives also produces a Sebenza clone? (WaYeah does infact produce a Sebenza clone)
 
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Lapedog said:
What about the Land 910 linerlock?

Btw I am not arguing that the Land is ok or just, it’s clearly not.

We don’t really know if H Badger was copied off the Maxace as the Linerlock SRM land was copied off the crk 21. To me it looks like a fairly exact copy of the Maxace. Granted we don’t know where this design originally came from.

I for now will likely file it under the same feelings I have over the 910 Land, while it is not purporting to be a Sebenza it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Derivative designs abound and that I am largely fine with. Also there seems to be some knives where designs can be nearly exactly similar and no one bats an eyelash; ie: the Emerson CQC7 and the Protech TR-1.

I just wonder how much these feelings are tied to brand loyalty/the China thing. I do know that if a knife is knocking off a design I have particular feelings attached to I am more likely to feel revulsion to it.

I recognize that is all based on personal bias though.

Edit to add: I also know alot of people will never buy a SanRenMu specifically because of the 710 and 910 being Sebenza clones. They would chastise SRM for this.

At the same time many people already have grown to like WE knives. Would they treat WE knives the same as SRM if they found out that WE’s parent company WaYeah Knives also produces a Sebenza clone? (WaYeah does infact produce a Sebenza clone)
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Again, the Land may have different actual features than a real Sebenza, but it's clearly making the aesthetic choice to make itself look as much like one as it's able. It's a case of trying to cash in on the popularity of an iconic design by aping the look but not the performance. My guess in the case of the Honey Badger vs. Balance is that chances are it was an in-house design by the manufacturer and both companies probably used the base build as a platform to construct their respective final products from. An alternative complicating factor is that Maxace may have done the actual design and the manufacturer then "open-sourced" the design as if it were their own platform, allowing Western Active to build off the design. Which would be an ethical failure on the part of the manufacturer rather than Western Active, who may have been unaware of the Maxace.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Again, the Land may have different actual features than a real Sebenza, but it's clearly making the aesthetic choice to make itself look as much like one as it's able. It's a case of trying to cash in on the popularity of an iconic design by aping the look but not the performance. My guess in the case of the Honey Badger vs. Balance is that chances are it was an in-house design by the manufacturer and both companies probably used the base build as a platform to construct their respective final products from. An alternative complicating factor is that Maxace may have done the actual design and the manufacturer then "open-sourced" the design as if it were their own platform, allowing Western Active to build off the design. Which would be an ethical failure on the part of the manufacturer rather than Western Active, who may have been unaware of the Maxace.
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But what about the liner lock 910 Lands? They are using a whole other locking system and the g10 on each side is a different aesthetic choice too.

I think do think you have a good point though that due to the popularity and widespread knowledge of the Sebenza design; it is clear that when SRM designed the 710/Land they were aping the design.

Whereas we have no idea if H Badger was copied from the Maxace Balance or where that design comes from.
 
They should have sent the bird channel the "real deal" and asked them to spread the knowledge in a nice way. Weird company with a hair dryer logo :p
 
Lapedog said:
But what about the liner lock 910 Lands? They are using a whole other locking system and the g10 on each side is a different aesthetic choice too.

I think do think you have a good point though that due to the popularity and widespread knowledge of the Sebenza design; it is clear that when SRM designed the 710/Land they were aping the design.

Whereas we have no idea if H Badger was copied from the Maxace Balance or where that design comes from.
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The difference between a liner lock and frame lock is a marginal one, and I think we all recognize that. The fundamentally act the same way, and if you were to simply slap a thin scale over a frame lock it'd suddenly be a liner lock, albeit normally a bit chunkier than most liner locks are. But the outlines are pretty clearly deliberate aesthetic choices intended to match the look of the Sebenza, and both the shape and color of the thumb stud further reinforce that, as it's a distinctive part of the overall look of the original knife. If it weren't for all of the lines of the handle and blade being basically a carbon copy tracing plus the nature of the stud aesthetics, the G10 might be a more significant departure. But in the context as it stands, it's not. It's a baby step rather than a significant departure.
 
Lapedog said:
Could have likely flipped it into something positive. “You like the H badger design? Try the original in higher end materials.”
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Is it even in production anymore?

It is. Vg10 for more than I'd want to pay for that.
 
That honey badger was a disappointment for me; it was like a cheap toy sold it to a friend ; my s110 manix 2 that makes it look silly anyway
 
The Honey Badger is as similar in appearance to the Maxace as the Maxace is to a Buck Vantage. Which came first? Should Buck issue a desist order to Maxace for infringing on the Vantage design?
 
lambertiana said:
The Honey Badger is as similar in appearance to the Maxace as the Maxace is to a Buck Vantage. Which came first? Should Buck issue a desist order to Maxace for infringing on the Vantage design?
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0345BKS-B.jpg

Not really seeing much similarity to the Maxace beyond superficial.
MAXBALBLKt.jpg


Whereas this looks almost identical to the MAce

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FortyTwoBlades said:
The designs are SO dang vanilla-generic that without copying their specific decorative motifs it'd be difficult to claim IP on it. Ornamental design patents are easy to get around, and there's plenty of arguments of prior art to pull from if you do even a little digging. I could probably flip to a random page in the Blue Ridge catalog and there'd be 2-3 knives with similar features in view.
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A lot of Maxace's folders are pretty boring, but their balisongs are incredible
 
Lapedog, thanks for showing the buck vantage, it's clearly the right choice (imho) and somewhat makes the rest of the thread mute ; )
 
What IP is being stolen and how is it protected?

YOU CAN COPY DESIGN ALL DAY LONG and there is nothing anyone can legally do about it unless it is a novel idea, it is protected, and it is being sold/produced in a region governed by that protection.

How the knife looks, where the screws are, blade shape, opening hole, scale materials, none of that matters. Unless the originator has some form of legally documented protection (Patent, trademark, etc.) in the country of manufacture and/or sale, then there is no IP theft. Scummy and immoral, sure, but legal IP theft is totally different.

I can patent something in the US, but if I contract to have that something built in say El Salvador, then any manufacturer could steal my IP without legal recourse so long as they don't sell the stolen product in the US. Likewise, if I sell my product in China and I don't hold a Chinese patent, there's nothing I can do if someone there steals my IP and then sell sit in China.

There is no global IP council or body. It is country/region specific.

But, I'm not a patent lawyer, so take this for what it's worth.
 
It is relevant; the honey badger is a piece of crap; who cares who rips off that gas station tin can
 
Ripping off knife designs is as old as the cutlery industry and as new as Case copying GEC with a bottle opener in a trapper pattern and GEC copying the Case Bose Tribal/Zulu pattern. Which was a riff off a 1936 Schrade pattern. Get over it "it's TRADITION!" :)
 
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