Maybe this is why...

[shinyedges]

What part of Ernest Emerson designed the knife so it is an Emerson don't you get? Like it or not Ernest Emerson has HIS name on HIS knives that HE designed. If the hinderer zt knife was the brainchild of rick Hinderer than those are indeed his knives. He may have collaborated with zt to build the knife but its still his knife. Dont agree fine your entitled to your opinion as am I . Does Ernest Emerson build every knife by hand? Than someone else built it. Still his knife. Do you not like that Emerson collaborates or what? The company who built it fixes it, established thanks. Why does Emerson or Hinderer attach there name to a knife that's not theirs? They stake there reputation on the knives they put their names.

This video of Ernest Emerson and Thomas of kai is pretty clear on who's knives they are. Emerson states he had these designs from sometime and gave kai a choice of some of HIS prototypes and designs. Its a long video but watch it, he definitely would consider the Kershaw knives HIS. Very in depth of how the collaboration occurred as well as why he wanted kai to make these knives.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYTJ99Bqps

You mean like the many Kershaw Galyeans, Ken Onions & Hinderers I now have? Can I sell my ZT550 as a Hinderer? How about my Spyderco Fred Perrins & Bob Lums? Buck Mayos, anyone?
You can argue semantics all you want, if you want a bottom line to your opinion, try sending your Kershaw/Emerson collab to EKI for repair.

 

[mqqn]

by no means am I trying to bicker with you, as im no expert concerning Emersons, but I have to ask....would you consider the Kershaw/Emerson knives an Emerson as well?

Hi Lee -

And I don't think anyone here is trying to bicker with me.

I see others disagree, and that is good. Differing opinions are good, as long as the discussions are friendly.

I watched a nice video of Mr. Emerson discussing his new knives from Kershaw and Zero Tolerance with the Director of Marketing for Kai USA, Mr. Thomas Welk.

In that discussion, Mr. Emerson was very proud of his designs and his knives that were being manufactured under his guidance by Kai.

The gist was that by partnering with Kai, Mr. Emerson was able to get more of his designs out to customers than he would if it were just his company manufacturing them.

He seemed very paternal to the knives and although I cannot speak for the gentleman, I would say that if he were here he would likely tell the faithful following that the Kershaw and ZT Emerson knives were very much his knives, just with a different manufacturer.

All good in my opinion. If you love Emerson knives but you only have a taste for knives made by "Emerson", then you'll probably be very happy with the knives you buy directly from Emerson.

If you want to buy the designs Mr. Emerson has allowed Kai to manufacture on his behalf, then you will also likely be happy with those knives.

Which reminds me - I really need to get another CQC-7, one of THE classic folding knives in my estimation.

best

mqqn

 

[jmclfrsh]

Shinyedges,

I understand the point you are trying to make, but your logic is flawed as well. You do not substantiate your claim that there are "tougher" steels than 154CM with any empirical evidence to validate the point you are trying to make.

Using the term "tougher" also is vague, and a poor choice of a descriptive term as it is, at best, ambiguous.

So please do not come into this forum and complain about those you feel are doing EXACTLY what you are doing in the process, making claims they cannot or do not back up with facts. If you want to educate us, do so properly. Otherwise, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, plain and simple.

And either learn how to use a spell checker, or brush up on the proper use of the English language. It puts great holes in your argument when you are using words like "there" when it should be "their."

 

[shinyedges]

Hey, sorry for not using there in the correct context I honestly dont care though. As to 154cm vs other stainless steels it is well accepted and talked about on this site the advantages that several powder steels bring to the table. If you would like I can post a plethora of evidence showing impact toughness, wear resistance,lateral toughness. But I'm rather lazy right now it would be easier for you to use the search function. I also disagree on my position being similar to the other guy, he wrote off a steel because of a post that he had no way of verifying as well as dismissing the possibility it could be a flaw in the steel, which happens in production knives from time to time.

I like my Emerson designed knife very much, as I watch his vids I see why he has a cult following lol the man seems genuine though. But some Emerson fans seem to ignore reality and choose to spread babble, when I question the babble no answer.. kinda funny.

Shinyedges,

I understand the point you are trying to make, but your logic is flawed as well. You do not substantiate your claim that there are "tougher" steels than 154CM with any empirical evidence to validate the point you are trying to make.

Using the term "tougher" also is vague, and a poor choice of a descriptive term as it is, at best, ambiguous.

So please do not come into this forum and complain about those you feel are doing EXACTLY what you are doing in the process, making claims they cannot or do not back up with facts. If you want to educate us, do so properly. Otherwise, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, plain and simple.

And either learn how to use a spell checker, or brush up on the proper use of the English language. It puts great holes in your argument when you are using words like "there" when it should be "their."

 

[Lycosa]

Phill Hartsfield refused to use any other steel other than A2. On purpose.
rolf

 

[gooeytek]

I get that Ernie Emerson designed the knife. He also designed the Benchmade 970, but that doesn't make it an Emerson. It wasn't built by EKI, and doesn't have EKI's warranty. That train of thought certainly doesn't make Hinderers of my ZT 550 & 560. You might want to think that way, and that's fine I guess. Some people think their Fiat 500 is a Ferrari because of some warped association. On the subject of steels, I'm all for an upgrade to CPM154.

What part of Ernest Emerson designed the knife so it is an Emerson don't you get? Like it or not Ernest Emerson has HIS name on HIS knives that HE designed. If the hinderer zt knife was the brainchild of rick Hinderer than those are indeed his knives. He may have collaborated with zt to build the knife but its still his knife. Dont agree fine your entitled to your opinion as am I . Does Ernest Emerson build every knife by hand? Than someone else built it. Still his knife. Do you not like that Emerson collaborates or what? The company who built it fixes it, established thanks. Why does Emerson or Hinderer attach there name to a knife that's not theirs? They stake there reputation on the knives they put their names.This video of Ernest Emerson and Thomas of kai is pretty clear on who's knives they are. Emerson states he had these designs from sometime and gave kai a choice of some of HIS prototypes and designs. Its a long video but watch it, he definitely would consider the Kershaw knives HIS. Very in depth of how the collaboration occurred as well as why he wanted kai to make these knives.http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYTJ99Bqps

 

[Alnamvet68]

Hey, sorry for not using there in the correct context I honestly dont care though. As to 154cm vs other stainless steels it is well accepted and talked about on this site the advantages that several powder steels bring to the table. If you would like I can post a plethora of evidence showing impact toughness, wear resistance,lateral toughness. But I'm rather lazy right now it would be easier for you to use the search function. I also disagree on my position being similar to the other guy, he wrote off a steel because of a post that he had no way of verifying as well as dismissing the possibility it could be a flaw in the steel, which happens in production knives from time to time.

I like my Emerson designed knife very much, as I watch his vids I see why he has a cult following lol the man seems genuine though. But some Emerson fans seem to ignore reality and choose to spread babble, when I question the babble no answer.. kinda funny.

Perhaps a little reading of Dale Carnegie, or of King George V's 6 Maxims, or some Ralph Waldo Emerson might help you make your point(s).

 

[shinyedges]

So the fact Emerson thought that knife into existence means nothing? Whether a knife maker / designer have there knives made by a production company or not doesn't make the knife any less the maker /designer. Emerson GAVE zt/Kershaw knives to sell, how are they not Emerson knives? There just built buy another company to exact standards Emerson lays out.. and since they built it they warranty it. Seems simple to me.

I'll try and explain my point

If emerson created it, it by default is "his" . Whether he has it made by another company or not he created it... while they may not be made by eki or warranted by eki Ernest Emerson created it that's why his names on it. The term "real" is what your hung up on I think. To you eki made knives are the only "real Emerson's" to me ANY knife design created by Emerson is HIS whether its a design eki currently makes or a drawing in Emersons design book to HIS design being made by kershaw. They all share a common denominator , Ernest Emerson.

I don't know how to express my point any clearer.

I get that Ernie Emerson designed the knife. He also designed the Benchmade 970, but that doesn't make it an Emerson. It wasn't built by EKI, and doesn't have EKI's warranty. That train of thought certainly doesn't make Hinderers of my ZT 550 & 560. You might want to think that way, and that's fine I guess. Some people think their Fiat 500 is a Ferrari because of some warped association. On the subject of steels, I'm all for an upgrade to CPM154.

 

[Officer's Match]

OK, so how about the illegal knock-off's? Clearly they are Ernie's designs, so by your logic they are "Emersons" built by someone else. You can't seriously think you are going to move anyone to your logic sir.

 

[Alnamvet68]

OK, so how about the illegal knock-off's? Clearly they are Ernie's designs, so by your logic they are "Emersons" built by someone else. You can't seriously think you are going to move anyone to your logic sir.

Perhaps in another lifetime, but not this one. He needs to read "How to Win Friends - And Influence People", by Dale Carnegie if he wants to move me.

 

[shinyedges]

Wrong my logic does not lead to knock offs be thought of as real, with out Ernest's approval its not real. Period. Please don't insinuate where my logic leads incorrectly. But when Ernest makes a video claiming something as HIS I believe it.

OK, so how about the illegal knock-off's? Clearly they are Ernie's designs, so by your logic they are "Emersons" built by someone else. You can't seriously think you are going to move anyone to your logic sir.

 

[Officer's Match]

Not trying to insult you or ruffle your feathers, just showing you the error of your thoughts. You really should stop pushing this argument in this sub-forum IMHO.

 

[shinyedges]

Funny you change the subject rather than address the topic in a meaningful way. I don't want to "move" you at all. You've made your self apparent. Carry on.

Perhaps in another lifetime, but not this one. He needs to read "How to Win Friends - And Influence People", by Dale Carnegie if he wants to move me.

 

[shinyedges]

Why is that a veil attempt to intimidate me? Lol I have a valid point in any thing Ernest Emerson creates is his. Especially when he makes a video claiming it. The sub form is open to anyone.

Not trying to insult you or ruffle your feathers, just showing you the error of your thoughts. You really should stop pushing this argument in this sub-forum IMHO.

 

[Officer's Match]

OK fine, it was a friendly attempt to save you embarrassment. Have at it good fellow.

 

[Officer's Match]

Wrong my logic does not lead to knock offs be thought of as real, with out Ernest's approval its not real. Period. Please don't insinuate where my logic leads incorrectly. But when Ernest makes a video claiming something as HIS I believe it.

The design is Mr. E's, not the knife. Therein lies your confusion. I don't make threats, veiled or otherwise.

 

[shinyedges]

Embarrassment? Oh please lol I get it you "real" Emerson fans don't consider Emerson knives made by other companies "real". I disagree nothing to be embarrassed about. I like Emerson designs just not the liner lock left hand chisel ground knives, I prefer his collaborations but those don't count in this sub forum lol

OK fine, it was a friendly attempt to save you embarrassment. Have at it good fellow.

 

[shinyedges]

The design IS the knife... what is a knife without a design? Please oh please answer that..

The design is Mr. E's, not the knife. Therein lies your confusion. I don't make threats, veiled or otherwise.

 

[Alnamvet68]

I believe we would all love to answer your innumerable questions, but you've got to be less condescending and more open minded. When that happens, the flood gates holding back the very knowledge you seek, will open, displaying in all its glory, the very answers you seek. Now, do you want to play nice, or continue on this path of obstinacy?

 

[shinyedges]

My innumerable questions? Take your own advice on dropping the condescending tone. You want to have a discussion great but drop the wisdom knowledge glory crap. Seems you dance around to much, you made statements I challenged them you ignored the questions and beat around the bush. I'd like to turn a more positive tone to this , let's discuss our differences if we still disagree then well agree to disagree. No harm done.

I believe we would all love to answer your innumerable questions, but you've got to be less condescending and more open minded. When that happens, the flood gates holding back the very knowledge you seek, will open, displaying in all its glory, the very answers you seek. Now, do you want to play nice, or continue on this path of obstinacy?