Met One Seriously Underprepared Walker

[skammer]

that was my thinking. an ultra light packer.. our local cub/boy scouts are teaching their troops to survive like a light packer. they time their hikes and etc.

Sounds like a light weight is at the helm and is pushing a personal agenda. How about teaching the kids proper survival techniques with real gear and then coach them on lighter alternatives after.

Skam

 

[dougo83]

And for the record, I have the utmost respect for the people that give their time to help others, be it paid time or volunteer time. Just because I'm trying to understand what someone meant in this thread (and others in other threads) doesn't mean I don't.

I figured you would...IIRC you were/are USMC correct? I figger most of them know a thing or two about getting screwed on volunteer duty.

 

[Shotgun]

I need to ask Skammer and the other SARs out there something. Are you jaded in how you look at other hikers and campers the way Police officers look at the public? All you see is that 0.5% that are complete dumbasses so do you think that you view people who carry the same gear as being a dumbass too?

I'm just saying that I don't believe it's necessarily the gear that gets people into trouble but their decisions. I'm sure you can take one of the members here and load them up light and they'll be fine because they're here discussing/thinking about the right way to do things so they'll tend to make the decisions that won't get them into trouble. Not trying to flame just asking. I was in SAR for a couple years but it was when I was a teen and wasn't as hardcore as what you guys do.

 

[BlackHills]

Maybe 50% I am guessing of lost person calls are just stupid people who have said to me "I took risks, got burned but no big deal as I knew youd come". Forget the fact I lost a days wages, potentialy put myself at serious risk and have to deal with this attitude.

.....

That said there is many legit accidents or situations of cool people who had some bad luck, this I am cool with. But when someone looks at you and says I dont need a map or water or common sense "I got you and its your job anyhow", this burns my ass.

Fair enough....that would probably make me a bit unhappy too. I can't imagine anyone doing something like that but I don't doubt you, there are a lot of messed up people in the world. I appreciate you clarifying things for me, I have a much better understanding now.

I figured you would...IIRC you were/are USMC correct? I figger most of them know a thing or two about getting screwed on volunteer duty.

Yes, and I also worked in Corrections for a few years.

 

[Runsalone]

I think the issue stems from (my opinion) the fact that we get many individuals who believe it is their god given right to get rescued and cop an attitude to fit. Maybe 50% I am guessing of lost person calls are just stupid people who have said to me "I took risks, got burned but no big deal as I knew youd come". Forget the fact I lost a days wages, potentialy put myself at serious risk and have to deal with this attitude.


That said there is many legit accidents or situations of cool people who had some bad luck, this I am cool with. But when someone looks at you and says I dont need a map or water or common sense "I got you and its your job anyhow", this burns my ass.

I willingly take risks and that is my choice but when someone has done NOTHING to help themselves avoid this situation how am I suposed to celebrate that.

Skam

Now with this friend I can find no argument with you. I think im seeing your side a little more clearly given the above.

 

[Runsalone]

I need to ask Skammer and the other SARs out there something. Are you jaded in how you look at other hikers and campers the way Police officers look at the public? All you see is that 0.5% that are complete dumbasses so do you think that you view people who carry the same gear as being a dumbass too?

I'm just saying that I don't believe it's necessarily the gear that gets people into trouble but their decisions. I'm sure you can take one of the members here and load them up light and they'll be fine because they're here discussing/thinking about the right way to do things so they'll tend to make the decisions that won't get them into trouble. Not trying to flame just asking. I was in SAR for a couple years but it was when I was a teen and wasn't as hardcore as what you guys do.

I wondered the same thing. Like when SOME policefolk talk about the public and our 2nd ammendment rights. Like were all deranged criminals who should have no such right. Hell some of the public is more highly trained . Good point and well stated.

 

[rwiggins]

I'll just state my opinion on the matter and let it at that. I've volunteered for many things, boy scouts, SAR and the US Army. I've never thought my volunteer SAR services should be compensated. I've always held the attitude that life is the best teacher. I've lived my life by being prepared and I'll help others as long as I'm able. But that's just me.

Crap happens - to both the prepared and the unprepared. I'll not rail on them because they learned a valuable lesson or because it put my life in danger. If they are unfortunately deceased, well, they learned the ultimate lesson. I knew what I was getting into when I volunteered to do it.

Do I ever get angry? Frustrated? Otherwise discombubalted? Heck yes. But I'm not into victim blaming. That's just me.

 

[Bushman5]

Quote:
Originally Posted by skammer View Post
I think the issue stems from (my opinion) the fact that we get many individuals who believe it is their god given right to get rescued and cop an attitude to fit. Maybe 50% I am guessing of lost person calls are just stupid people who have said to me "I took risks, got burned but no big deal as I knew youd come". Forget the fact I lost a days wages, potentialy put myself at serious risk and have to deal with this attitude.


That said there is many legit accidents or situations of cool people who had some bad luck, this I am cool with. But when someone looks at you and says I dont need a map or water or common sense "I got you and its your job anyhow", this burns my ass.

I willingly take risks and that is my choice but when someone has done NOTHING to help themselves avoid this situation how am I suposed to celebrate that.

Skam

Now with this friend I can find no argument with you. I think im seeing your side a little more clearly given the above.

I too agree with this! we see it all the time here on the slopes in winter. THOSE are the ones that piss everyone off and that should be billed the full cost of the rescue

 

[Bushman5]

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Search+missing+North+Shore+hiker/2009101/story.html

http://www.news1130.com/news/local/more.jsp?content=20090918_140835_7352

first mistake: leaving FOR to the ridge at 1400 hours. Takes a little longer than a few hours to hit that ridge AND return before nightfall. At least it looks like he has a few flashlights.....but not much else. Age a factor, possibly, but the man is very fit.

hope this turns out well.

 

[jca21]

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Search+missing+North+Shore+hiker/2009101/story.html

first mistake: leaving FOR to the ridge at 1400 hours. Takes a little longer than a few hours to hit that ridge AND return before nightfall. At least it looks like he has a few flashlights.....but not much else. Age a factor, possibly, but the man is very fit.

hope this turns out well.

wtf? he was trying to hit the hollyburn ridge and left at 1400?

if i was doing what he was doing i probably woulda made it an overnighter trip and camped in the bush. make my way back the next day.


with all the recent over night rain showers over here i'm surprised he decided to tackle that trail (which gets shit slippery when its wet) starting in the afternoon and finishing at night. even if you have a flashlight it doesnt make navigating THAT trail any easier.

i hope this one turns out alright.

 

[skammer]

I need to ask Skammer and the other SARs out there something. Are you jaded in how you look at other hikers and campers the way Police officers look at the public? All you see is that 0.5% that are complete dumbasses so do you think that you view people who carry the same gear as being a dumbass too?

I speak for myself only but happen to know a good % of SAR people have very similar reactions. Sure I am jaded, I am jaded like a cop to some extent for good reason. A good portion of society is a waste of air. People need to walk in the shoes of someone who deals with the worst situations and people before they comment. Most people on this board are privilaged to some degree and may not have been exposed to what its like to serve and protect the public as a whole. Whether you are a cop or ER nurse or EMT or firemonkey etc.... You want to help people, but people who dont help themselves it drags you down and dissappoints you. Make no mistake its much much more than a .5% dumass ratio. One thing I do know is the jaded ones are the ones who care the most because they do care or they wouldnt be jaded. Its no wonder emergency services has a huge burn out rate.

I think there is a misconception here. Sar doesnt just do (lost Timmy who rolled his ankle and is the perfect poster child of outdoor pursuits). We do police evidence searches, homicide, rape, murder, abuse. We also search for murdered, suicides, mutilated bodies and dump sites. Natural disaster search and recoveries. We see some horrible stuff and what the dregs of society do to one another. So ya you get jaded.

I'm just saying that I don't believe it's necessarily the gear that gets people into trouble but their decisions. I'm sure you can take one of the members here and load them up light and they'll be fine because they're here discussing/thinking about the right way to do things so they'll tend to make the decisions that won't get them into trouble. Not trying to flame just asking. I was in SAR for a couple years but it was when I was a teen and wasn't as hardcore as what you guys do.

Why arent you in SAR now?

Here is what gets you into trouble:

Knowledge
Decisions
Fitness
Equipment
Luck

More of one than the other can bridge the gap some but you cant fully replace any of those with another and be safe. What upsets me is when whole categories are missing or largely ignored. Luck cant be changed I have no problem with that but the rest is fixable.

People on this board care about these categories and address them through conversation and sharing of information. I would like to think that most people on the forum if they needed help would fall into the luck category to which I would "happily" risk my life for them. Missing categories I will come get you but I dont have to be happy about it.

Getting tired explaining this :yawn: I need a ghost writer who can explain it better I think.

 

[skammer]

wtf? he was trying to hit the hollyburn ridge and left at 1400?

if i was doing what he was doing i probably woulda made it an overnighter trip and camped in the bush. make my way back the next day.


with all the recent over night rain showers over here i'm surprised he decided to tackle that trail (which gets shit slippery when its wet) starting in the afternoon and finishing at night. even if you have a flashlight it doesnt make navigating THAT trail any easier.

i hope this one turns out alright.

Statistically, this is a recovery mission. I hope his luck is strong.

Why did it take 3 days to get the teams rolling hmmmm.

Skam

 

[Bushman5]

not sure when the teams entered the area........

but like JCA21 said, 1400 hours is WAY TOO frickking late to be even contemplating hiking up to that ridge, then factor in the current trail conditions RAIN, with a 99.99% chance of goose crap slick trails with heavily exposed roots and rocks. Plus darkness in the mountains falls about 1800 hours when under the heavy canopy. Most easy trails here are classified as hard trails elsewhere in the country

 

[Bushman5]

UPDATE

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Body+discovered+mountains+still+missing/2012917/story.html

 

[halromberg]

It's interesting to see the reasoning behind peoples' choices about what to take on what kind of trip and what it says about their way of thinking. It's one of the reasons I like this board so much.

Mindsets range from
A quick walk
A camping or fishing trip
Rehearsal for the apocalypse
SAR mission
Search and Destroy mission
and my favorite: goin walkabout (reminds me of all the time I spent aimlessly wandering the woods as a kid)

Each one has different balances of gear and skill required, but a lot of us kind of get stuck in our personal default mindset and wonder why everyone else isn't with us. Cool.