Met One Seriously Underprepared Walker

[Bushman5]

Why it will never happen to that extent .

Some areas are charging now, the volumes and seriousness of calls are just rediculous. For me it would just be nice to recover my lost wages and gear depreciation with a little extra for acquiring more and better team assets.

I wonder if the North Van team charges in your area, they are one busy team.

Skam

no they (NSSAR) don't. And it pisses everyone off. 99.99% of the calls are idiots who go past the boundary lines on the ski hills, or tourists who think our hiking trails are like the rambling trails like their country, or city slickers who think its ok to go running along the trails with just a water bottle. The other .1% are extremely experienced and equipped (ultralight or heavyweight) but who have had stuff happen that you simply cannot prepare for (mountain slopes slumping on them, rockfall, cougar attacks etc)

every year there is a plethora of young males, mostly snowboarders, who go out of bounds and then get channelled into the ravines here. Well all they do is whip out their doobies, light one up and call 911 for a pickup. Or the tourists that sightsee and then get lost. THOSE are the people YOU should be getting pissed off and jaded about, NOT the ultralighters or primitive hikers or military guys that go hiking here.... < i have yet to see a call out for them, with the exception of a mountaineer whose leg got smashed by a falling boulder (cant prepare for debris that you cannot see coming thru the woods)

 

[skammer]

no they don't. And it pisses everyone off.

The other .1% are extremely experienced and equipped (ultralight or heavyweight) but who have had stuff happen that you simply cannot prepare for (mountain slopes slumping on them, rockfall, cougar attacks etc)

NOT the ultralighters or primitive hikers or military guys that go hiking here.... < i have yet to see a call out for them, with the exception of a mountaineer whose leg got smashed by a falling boulder (cant prepare for debris that you cannot see coming thru the woods)

I bet,

Murphy is Murphy cant change that, but if Murphy is allowed in due to negligence then I have a problem.

Never had a problem with light loafers, primates or rambos so long as they know there stuff and they bring complete gear. It keeps murphy at bay to a degree.

Skam

 

[BlackHills]

I guess it just burns my ass that people dont think they are potentially putting me at risk when s@#$t happens. ITs ok no worries I will still go as I cant stand guilt that you are out there in trouble no matter the reason.

I guess I'll open up another Pandora's Box. I've seen that same feeling expressed by some other SAR members here before and I don't really understand it. I thought the whole reason you're on a SAR Team is to rescue people...whether they're prepared or not. Obviously sometimes that's going to include risk, it's the nature of the game. When you signed up for the SAR Team you made a conscious choice to put yourself in situations that on occasion may become high risk.

It's not your job, you volunteer for it, and you can quit any time you want. I could at least somewhat understand your sentiment if it was how you put food on the table but since it's not....

 

[skammer]

I guess I'll open up another Pandora's Box. I've seen that same feeling expressed by some other SAR members here before and I don't really understand it. I thought the whole reason you're on a SAR Team is to rescue people...whether they're prepared or not. Obviously sometimes that's going to include risk, it's the nature of the game. When you signed up for the SAR Team you made a conscious choice to put yourself in situations that on occasion may become high risk.

The answer is simple. Speaking for me only.

Its a karma thing for me.

Make no mistake just because I signed up and choose to do it does not mean i have to like every situation, no different than any other emergency service.

Some people disappoint me and I have earned the right to bitch.

Gotta love armchair critics.

Skam

 

[Runsalone]

..........

 

[Fonly]

I guess I'll open up another Pandora's Box. I've seen that same feeling expressed by some other SAR members here before and I don't really understand it. I thought the whole reason you're on a SAR Team is to rescue people...whether they're prepared or not. Obviously sometimes that's going to include risk, it's the nature of the game. When you signed up for the SAR Team you made a conscious choice to put yourself in situations that on occasion may become high risk.

It's not your job, you volunteer for it, and you can quit any time you want. I could at least somewhat understand your sentiment if it was how you put food on the table but since it's not....

I honestly don't believe you said that, just because I volunteer I shouldn't care If I die looking for some jackass?!

I have a loving girl friend, and If I didn't do it, our team would be down to 9 active persons, most of the time there are 4 core people who go out. And YES that one more person makes a difference. Oh, but I guess you are going to move up here and do it, eh?

I know damn well I am putting my self at risk, does that give me the right to get pissed at idiot's?

YES.

Having to rescue people is not the problem, its the idiots that should have trained a little better, and taken some actual gear with them, plain ahead in case something does happen.

I for one would like to come home and have supper with my better half, And yes, in THIS case, I feel like I have to do it, just like I protect canada's sovereignty, and work a youth shelter, am I not supposed to work there in case I get pissed?

 

[dougo83]

They will call no worries about that. I'd like to see GPS deactivated personally. If you can navigate with map and compass you deserve to be there. They only thing I use GPS for is calling in my position thats it. All SAR nav is done via map and compass. My team at least. We dont even touch on GPS for all our training its a small separate non mandatory course in our ciriculum as any idiot can figure it out.

Skam

Couldn't agree less...or disagree more, I suppose. Daactivating GPS would be about the dumbest damn thing in the world.


When I hike, I take my usual loadout, plus my cell phone with a full charge and my nifty Garmin E-Trex that usually stays on my dash. So...here's the scenario: I'm out hiking about in Central Texas one fine fall day and I manage to break my ankle. I have been using a map and compass, but wouldn't it be much easier when I call 911 to have those nifty little numbers to give instead?

 

[dougo83]

I guess I'll open up another Pandora's Box. I've seen that same feeling expressed by some other SAR members here before and I don't really understand it. I thought the whole reason you're on a SAR Team is to rescue people...whether they're prepared or not. Obviously sometimes that's going to include risk, it's the nature of the game. When you signed up for the SAR Team you made a conscious choice to put yourself in situations that on occasion may become high risk.

It's not your job, you volunteer for it, and you can quit any time you want. I could at least somewhat understand your sentiment if it was how you put food on the table but since it's not....

This could be applied to ANY service. Police, FF, VFD, EMS, CERT, etc. Yea, some of those get paid, but they still deal with morons putting themselves in dangerous positions thus endangering them. SAR guys, just like anyone else, have a right to be irritated and pissed at the dumbasses who go out and do stupid shit and become another call out.

Some of us answer to something higher than a paycheck. Some call it "Karma." I don't because I don't believe in it. Some of us have an unending desire and drive to help others. Some people don't understand that drive, some ridicule, and some just plain don't have it.

 

[Duzzy]

I guess I'll open up another Pandora's Box. I've seen that same feeling expressed by some other SAR members here before and I don't really understand it. I thought the whole reason you're on a SAR Team is to rescue people...whether they're prepared or not. Obviously sometimes that's going to include risk, it's the nature of the game. When you signed up for the SAR Team you made a conscious choice to put yourself in situations that on occasion may become high risk.

It's not your job, you volunteer for it, and you can quit any time you want. I could at least somewhat understand your sentiment if it was how you put food on the table but since it's not....

I can't speak for the people who actually do the job but...

I would imagine that people sign on to a SAR team to help those who truly need help. I would imagine, that the people on a SAR team want to help their fellow hikers, and maybe repay a kindness that was extended to them on the trail at some point. If the job description said:

"Want to lose money? Want to risk everything, including your life, for some ungrateful person who shouldn't be where they is in the first place? A person who probably doesn't care about your well being outside of how it will affect their chances of being rescued. Look no further, join your local SAR now!"

I have a sneaking suspicion that there would be fewer people who volunteered to work SAR. I imagine that it's like Social work. You sign on to help the people who truly need help, and you deal with the idiots because you have to, not because they deserve it, and not because you want to.

But I'm speaking for others, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[dougo83]

"Want to lose money? Want to risk everything, including your life, for some ungrateful person who shouldn't be where they is in the first place? A person who probably doesn't care about your well being outside of how it will affect their chances of being rescued. Look no further, join your local SAR now!"

Where do I sign up? Actually, I have an application for our local SAR team in my bag. I should probably fill it out soon.

 

[skammer]

Couldn't agree less...or disagree more, I suppose. Daactivating GPS would be about the dumbest damn thing in the world.

HAHA

Never said I thought it all through Doug.

But seriously I "ME" dont have a problem with giving my coordinates using a map. Average dude may have problems. Looking at the little box is a bit easier agreed. Thats realy all I ever use GPS for anyway, communicating positional info.

SKam

 

[skammer]

I can't speak for the people who actually do the job but...

I would imagine that people sign on to a SAR team to help those who truly need help. I would imagine, that the people on a SAR team want to help their fellow hikers, and maybe repay a kindness that was extended to them on the trail at some point. If the job description said:

"Want to lose money? Want to risk everything, including your life, for some ungrateful person who shouldn't be where they is in the first place? A person who probably doesn't care about your well being outside of how it will affect their chances of being rescued. Look no further, join your local SAR now!"

I have a sneaking suspicion that there would be fewer people who volunteered to work SAR. I imagine that it's like Social work. You sign on to help the people who truly need help, and you deal with the idiots because you have to, not because they deserve it, and not because you want to.

But I'm speaking for others, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

You speak just fine.

What he said .

Skam

 

[skammer]

Where do I sign up? Actually, I have an application for our local SAR team in my bag. I should probably fill it out soon.

Welcome to the madness.

Seriously though give it a go, its not for everyone but you gotta try and you meet good people, get outside, do cool things, learn cool stuff for free and you may even serve your community in the process.

Skam

 

[dougo83]

HAHA

Never said I thought it all through Doug.

But seriously I "ME" dont have a problem with giving my coordinates using a map. Average dude may have problems. Looking at the little box is a bit easier agreed. Thats realy all I ever use GPS for anyway, communicating positional info.

SKam

Same here. At least...I used to be pretty good at it. After all, I am right on the edge of the last generation of "real" Boy Scouts where I am from. We actually learned how to do that stuff and a few shorts years later the orienteering program vanished.

Welcome to the madness.

Seriously though give it a go, its not for everyone but you gotta try and you meet good people, get outside, do cool things, learn cool stuff for free and you may even serve your community in the process.

Skam

I am working on it. I just have to make sure that I have enough hours in my schedule to do it all. I lead a pretty busy schedule with school and work and living...It has always appealed to me. I wanted to do some "real" VFF work, but I am too damn scared of heights to be able to complete the training. I am seriously considering SAR if I can get it worked out. Prepare for many questions if I do...

 

[skammer]

I am working on it. I just have to make sure that I have enough hours in my schedule to do it all. I lead a pretty busy schedule with school and work and living...It has always appealed to me. I wanted to do some "real" VFF work, but I am too damn scared of heights to be able to complete the training. I am seriously considering SAR if I can get it worked out. Prepare for many questions if I do...

Most and I say "most" teams will take the time you can give as long as its reasonable and you complete mandatory courses in a reasonable time frame.

Warning though! If and when you get hooked its serious like a virus and there is no better rationalization out there for blowing money on cool gear.

You have been warned.

Skam

 

[Bushman5]

for those considering joining SAR, make sure your EMPLOYER is aware that they CANNOT terminate you or discipline you or alter your pay structure because you might suddenly leave work for a call out. A lot of employers are real oles when a SAR guy gets called out, at least here in BC. There is legislation in BC that protects such workers in such cases, but the employer must be made aware of it.

most are fine with it, they get a little testy the first few times.

 

[skammer]

for those considering joining SAR, make sure your EMPLOYER is aware that they CANNOT terminate you or discipline you or alter your pay structure because you might suddenly leave work for a call out. A lot of employers are real oles when a SAR guy gets called out, at least here in BC. There is legislation in BC that protects such workers in such cases, but the employer must be made aware of it.

most are fine with it, they get a little testy the first few times.

Some wont let you go at all during work hrs. Got that t-shirt. Their perogative. I always hoped someone he knew would need us.

Skam

 

[BlackHills]

I honestly don't believe you said that, just because I volunteer I shouldn't care If I die looking for some jackass?!

Well...I knew I was opening a can of worms...and I also think you took what I said in a way I didn't mean. I probably didn't word it well. I can understand being concerned about getting hurt or worse...that's only human nature. I can understand being upset with morons that put themselves (and by extension you) in stupid positions. What I can't understand are the SAR members who get POd because someone who gets in a situation that makes them need rescuing didn't think they might put others at risk too. It's almost as if they resent having to go rescue them....that was the sentiment I got from my original quote. I wasn't trying to single him out either as I've seen other people express pretty much the same sentiment. If I interpreted what he said wrong then I was wrong....but that's how it read to me.

This could be applied to ANY service. Police, FF, VFD, EMS, CERT, etc. Yea, some of those get paid, but they still deal with morons putting themselves in dangerous positions thus endangering them. SAR guys, just like anyone else, have a right to be irritated and pissed at the dumbasses who go out and do stupid shit and become another call out.

No question about that.....I've BTDT and yes I got irritated at some of the people I had to deal with. However, never once did I feel that my "ass was chapped" because they put me at risk. I took that risk willingly and I knew it came with the job. Maybe I just view it differently....

And for the record, I have the utmost respect for the people that give their time to help others, be it paid time or volunteer time. Just because I'm trying to understand what someone meant in this thread (and others in other threads) doesn't mean I don't.

 

[hung-solo]

That is very possible. Different people need different things. If you read through the ultralight hiking stuff all over the net, you'll see packing lists that include very little, and wonder how they get by. A lot of Ultralight hikers wear running shoes, or sandals, or water socks. To me, that seems silly, but it works for them.

that was my thinking. an ultra light packer.. our local cub/boy scouts are teaching their troops to survive like a light packer. they time their hikes and etc.

 

[skammer]

Well...I knew I was opening a can of worms...and I also think you took what I said in a way I didn't mean. I probably didn't word it well. I can understand being concerned about getting hurt or worse...that's only human nature. I can understand being upset with morons that put themselves (and by extension you) in stupid positions. What I can't understand are the SAR members who get POd because someone who gets in a situation that makes them need rescuing didn't think they might put others at risk too. It's almost as if they resent having to go rescue them....that was the sentiment I got from my original quote. I wasn't trying to single him out either as I've seen other people express pretty much the same sentiment. If I interpreted what he said wrong then I was wrong....but that's how it read to me.

No question about that.....I've BTDT and yes I got irritated at some of the people I had to deal with. However, never once did I feel that my "ass was chapped" because they put me at risk. I took that risk willingly and I knew it came with the job. Maybe I just view it differently....

I think the issue stems from (my opinion) the fact that we get many individuals who believe it is their god given right to get rescued and cop an attitude to fit. Maybe 50% I am guessing of lost person calls are just stupid people who have said to me "I took risks, got burned but no big deal as I knew youd come". Forget the fact I lost a days wages, potentialy put myself at serious risk and have to deal with this attitude.

Its no different than the heroin addict who has OD'd for the 5th time in a bad area of town and gets a free ambulance ride to the ER. The medics have real cases to attend for real people who need them becasue of happenstance, not self inficted ignorance.

ITs crazy and I dont have to like it.

That said there is many legit accidents or situations of cool people who had some bad luck, this I am cool with. But when someone looks at you and says I dont need a map or water or common sense "I got you and its your job anyhow", this burns my ass.

I willingly take risks and that is my choice but when someone has done NOTHING to help themselves avoid this situation how am I suposed to celebrate that.

Skam