Micarta - When is it appropriate for use?

This has absolutely nothing to do with this thread however, as I was typing my last comment I looked up out the window and noticed a mother deer just at the edge of the treeline about 30 yards from my window. I could faintly see two very small fawns staggered about 3 yards behind her. She stuck out her head and smelled, listened, and looked.

My dogs have chain collars which jingled as they pranced around inside. It's amazing dogs can sense something outside even though they can't possibly see or hear them. The doe seemed to hear the chains jingle thought as she was very hesitant to step out in full view, but then did (very cautiously). Just as she felt comfortable, she turned her head as to say "it's ok". The two fawns that had been motionless for the 10 minutes skipped carefree onto the lawn where they are still grazing.

This sets up a nice start to my middle daughter's 21 birthday's today.

Sorry to go off track, but though I would share it....
 
I read this thread and feel that I must be missing something that everyone else is getting. Perhaps it is the way the question is phrased - in terms of "appropriateness". We are talking custom knives here, right? Some customers prefer micarta for pragmatic and aesthetic reasons. When they select a knife so equipped, how can it be inappropriate? Some guys don't much care for ivory, engraving, gold inlay and damascus as they regard such features as adding nothing to what they primarily view as a functional tool. Does that make my selection of same "inappropriate"?

I don't follow the whole Loveless knife thing because it doesn't particularly interest me. Do his micarta handle knives languish waiting for buyers? Are they difficult to sell in the secondary market? Do they fetch substantially less in the secondary market (as a percentage of their selling price) than their stag-handled counterparts? If the answer to those questions is "No" then again, by what measure beyond personal preference can micarta be "inappropriate"? Surely the buyers with the wherewithal to buy Lovelss knives in bunches aren't such cowed shrinking violets that they are buying micarta knives despite the fact that dislike it? Wouldn't a more reasonable inference be that they are voting with their wallets to decidedly endorse the appropriateness of micarta?

Loveless knives as well as Moran knives are categories unto themselves. The astronomical prices that these knives command have little to do with the quality of the handle materials (or arguably, even the quality of the knives themselves).

Oh - one category where I would argue that micarta is decidedly "appropriate" (as some of the pics reminded me) is on ANY knife with a full exposed tang. Natural materials will all too often do their shrinking trick and expose sharp edges of the tang. Definitely not one of my favorite things.

Roger
 
Kevin Jones said:
Does anyone disagree that any of the fine examples which Coop posted would not have looked better with good quality natural or amber colored stag? High quality desert ironwood or other fine wood?
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Yes, I do. On Loveless-type knives, micarta looks best. Wood comes very close, but it's not so tough.
I love stag as rounds, inside interframes, on slip joint folders. Stag scales don't look that good on a fixed blade IMO. BTW, I never saw natural stag scales that look nice seen from the spine. Amber ones look better.
 
RogerP said:
Some guys don't much care for ivory, engraving, gold inlay and damascus as they regard such features as adding nothing to what they primarily view as a functional tool. Does that make my selection of same "inappropriate"?
..............

Oh - one category where I would argue that micarta is decidedly "appropriate" (as some of the pics reminded me) is on ANY knife with a full exposed tang. Natural materials will all too often do their shrinking trick and expose sharp edges of the tang. Definitely not one of my favorite things.

Roger
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Well said :thumbup:
 
RogerP said:
I read this thread and feel that I must be missing something that everyone else is getting. Perhaps it is the way the question is phrased - in terms of "appropriateness". We are talking custom knives here, right? Some customers prefer micarta for pragmatic and aesthetic reasons. When they select a knife so equipped, how can it be inappropriate? Some guys don't much care for ivory, engraving, gold inlay and damascus as they regard such features as adding nothing to what they primarily view as a functional tool. Does that make my selection of same "inappropriate"?

I don't follow the whole Loveless knife thing because it doesn't particularly interest me. Do his micarta handle knives languish waiting for buyers? Are they difficult to sell in the secondary market? Do they fetch substantially less in the secondary market (as a percentage of their selling price) than their stag-handled counterparts? If the answer to those questions is "No" then again, by what measure beyond personal preference can micarta be "inappropriate"? Surely the buyers with the wherewithal to buy Lovelss knives in bunches aren't such cowed shrinking violets that they are buying micarta knives despite the fact that dislike it? Wouldn't a more reasonable inference be that they are voting with their wallets to decidedly endorse the appropriateness of micarta?

Loveless knives as well as Moran knives are categories unto themselves. The astronomical prices that these knives command have little to do with the quality of the handle materials (or arguably, even the quality of the knives themselves).

Oh - one category where I would argue that micarta is decidedly "appropriate" (as some of the pics reminded me) is on ANY knife with a full exposed tang. Natural materials will all too often do their shrinking trick and expose sharp edges of the tang. Definitely not one of my favorite things.

Roger
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Great points, Great discussion. :thumbup:
 
Kevin Jones said:
Most opinion here has been that micarta should not be utilized on high end collector/investment grade knives but on users.
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I'm glad we're not passing a law then. Any material should be used wherever the maker and customer choose.
I wouldn't want to see all high end folders in tortoise, MOP and gold-inlays :barf:
 
flava said:
I'm glad we're not passing a law then. Any material should be used wherever the maker and customer choose.
I wouldn't want to see all high end folders in tortoise, MOP and gold-inlays :barf:
Click to expand...

I agree material choice should be agreed upon by maker and customer. However Winn said in his post (pg1) he preferred stag but seems Mr. Loveless insisted on micarta. Winn got micarta, but still beautiful knives.

Well, we definitely don't see many custom high end folders in micarta, at least I don't.

I love slab or scale style handle material, and done right will never have the problems as Roger describes. Same as the wive’s tale that "ivory always cracks, just a matter of when". Bull, it's all about the grade, treatment and the ability of the maker working the ivory. No problem if all addressed.
 
The Loveless phenomenom includes micarta, and possibly the 'ugliest' micarta (green canvas) is one of the more desireable (or at least recognized) of his choices. No one else has boosted it's popularity quite like RWL did.

Now, just for discussion's sake, we easily accept man-made damascus blend of blade steels, man-made alloys of exotic steel for guards, man-made stabilizing epoxies on those rare woods (which are duplicating synthetics) along with many glues, techniques and other man-solved ingredients. It almost seems like 'natural' handles are now out of place. ;)

In some sense everything is in some origination 'natural', as it all came from some earthly source.

Why wouldn't some exotic man-made synthetic handle material be considered invaluable? Stag and dead wood are laying around the forest floors. Micarta®™ took some real smarts to develop..... ;) :thumbup:

(Now we need a thread about the beauty of synthetics! :p )

Coop
 
RogerP said:
I read this thread and feel that I must be missing something that everyone else is getting. Perhaps it is the way the question is phrased - in terms of "appropriateness". We are talking custom knives here, right? Some customers prefer micarta for pragmatic and aesthetic reasons. When they select a knife so equipped, how can it be inappropriate? Some guys don't much care for ivory, engraving, gold inlay and damascus as they regard such features as adding nothing to what they primarily view as a functional tool. Does that make my selection of same "inappropriate"?

I don't follow the whole Loveless knife thing because it doesn't particularly interest me. Do his micarta handle knives languish waiting for buyers? Are they difficult to sell in the secondary market? Do they fetch substantially less in the secondary market (as a percentage of their selling price) than their stag-handled counterparts? If the answer to those questions is "No" then again, by what measure beyond personal preference can micarta be "inappropriate"? Surely the buyers with the wherewithal to buy Lovelss knives in bunches aren't such cowed shrinking violets that they are buying micarta knives despite the fact that dislike it? Wouldn't a more reasonable inference be that they are voting with their wallets to decidedly endorse the appropriateness of micarta?

Loveless knives as well as Moran knives are categories unto themselves. The astronomical prices that these knives command have little to do with the quality of the handle materials (or arguably, even the quality of the knives themselves).

Oh - one category where I would argue that micarta is decidedly "appropriate" (as some of the pics reminded me) is on ANY knife with a full exposed tang. Natural materials will all too often do their shrinking trick and expose sharp edges of the tang. Definitely not one of my favorite things.

Roger
Click to expand...

Actually Roger, I was addressing Higher End Collector/Investor grade knives as indicted in starting the thread. If it makes any difference. It has evolved to everything since then.
 
SharpByCoop said:
Stag and dead wood are laying around the forest floors. Micarta®™ took some real smarts to develop..... ;) :thumbup:
Click to expand...
Now, lest you think I can't have two differing viewpoints on the same topic, I will submit that it took some REAL SERIOUS smarts and evolution for the beauty of wood and stag to grow. Only about 3.2 billion years and a heavenly source for an engineer... :thumbup:

Coop
 
SharpByCoop said:
The Loveless phenomenom includes micarta, and possibly the 'ugliest' micarta (green canvas) is one of the more desireable (or at least recognized) of his choices. No one else has boosted it's popularity quite like RWL did.

Now, just for discussion's sake, we easily accept man-made damascus blend of blade steels, man-made alloys of exotic steel for guards, man-made stabilizing epoxies on those rare woods (which are duplicating synthetics) along with many glues, techniques and other man-solved ingredients. It almost seems like 'natural' handles are now out of place. ;)

In some sense everything is in some origination 'natural', as it all came from some earthly source.

Why wouldn't some exotic man-made synthetic handle material be considered invaluable? Stag and dead wood are laying around the forest floors. Micarta®™ took some real smarts to develop..... ;) :thumbup:

(Now we need a thread about the beauty of synthetics! :p )

Coop
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Hi Coop.
I think you are splitting hairs a bit in regard to the natural thing, however I sure don't want to anger you today buddy, as you are shooting my knives :eek: :confused: :D ;)
 
Kevin Jones said:
Actually Roger, I was addressing Higher End Collector/Investor grade knives as indicted in starting the thread. If it makes any difference. It has evolved to everything since then.
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Fair enough - I was addressing the thread as it had evolved to that point. Besides, apart from Loveless (which I did address), I can't think of many mega-thousand dollar customs that use micarta.

Roger
 
It is my opinion that unless Micarta is a signature material like it is with Loveless, having it on a collectable knife will result in a lower resale value than high quality natural materials. If an ABS MS were to make a nice bowie with a really nice ironwood handle, and the same knife with a Micarta handle, which one do you think would command more interest in the secondary market? It's not just in resale value, it is also in the amount of interest there would be in purchasing the knife. My guess is that the percentage that would be interested in purchasing the Micarta handled knife would be very small in comparison.

It is up to the purchaser to decide what handle material they want. However, it is not up to the original purchaser to what the resale value, or the popularity of the knife in the secondary market will be. If the original purchaser doesn't care about those factors, then he/she should go ahead and get whatever he/she wants. If resale value is important then Micarta is usually not going to be the right choice. Even when it comes to Loveless knives, ivory and stag handled knives of equal quality sell for more than Micarta ones do.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Well, we definitely don't see many custom high end folders in micarta, at least I don't.
Click to expand...

i don't either. unfortunately.

horn_folding.jpg


(picture taken from http://www.iqknives.com)
 
RogerP said:
Oh - one category where I would argue that micarta is decidedly "appropriate" (as some of the pics reminded me) is on ANY knife with a full exposed tang. Natural materials will all too often do their shrinking trick and expose sharp edges of the tang. Definitely not one of my favorite things.

Roger
Click to expand...

This is exactly the reason that I started using micarta. A couple years ago, I made a couple kitchen knives with a batch of gaboon ebony that I was told was dried and cured (bought from a local hardwood specialty company - supplies woods for high end furniture and luthiers). About two weeks after I finished the knives, the wood started to shrink away from the tang:grumpy: . One of the customers told me about it and I had to get both knives back from separate owners and redo the handles. Right after this, I went and bought a bunch of micarta and started using stabilized wood.
 
What about the really nice home made micarta? No one has mentioned that yet. It's at least as expensive as soe of the handle materials being thrown out here, and it also takes a lot of time for the maker. Here's some examples of what I'm talking about from Butch

DSC03280sm.jpg

260227296_02c3785365_o.jpg


While the second one is a bit tacky in my opinion, they both show what can be done with micarta other than this flat single tone stuff you usually see.
 
Jared Stenoien said:
What about the really nice home made micarta? No one has mentioned that yet. It's at least as expensive as soe of the handle materials being thrown out here, and it also takes a lot of time for the maker. Here's some examples of what I'm talking about from Butch

While the second one is a bit tacky in my opinion, they both show what can be done with micarta other than this flat single tone stuff you usually see.
Click to expand...

OK, I'm going to ask. How do you make homemade micarta? :confused: And how does it differ form the other? Obviously from the above IT LOOKS DIFFERENT. :eek:
 
Homemade phenolic, epoxy, silicon, and melamine resin laminates would be made in the same basic way that Micarta is. The materials used can be any kind of cellulose paper, natural or synthetic fabric, or glass fiber.
 
You take different kinds of material and soak each piece in epoxy and then put them all together in a form and let the epoxy dry under pressure. There is a lot of waste involved and it's really quite expensive to make correctly. Butch has also done some REALLY nice jean micarta burl.
 
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