Michael Potter is irresponsible

[TheBleedingEdge]

About two months ago, I sent out two of my production Emersons to Michael Potter to be customized. He was kind enough to take some work-in-progress photos and he kept in good contact. The final photos of the knives looked very promising.

However, the knives never arrived. He sent them via USPS without insurance or signature on delivery. By the time I found out, a week had passed since the knives had apparently been delivered, meaning someone had snatched them off of my door step a week prior without my knowledge.

I attempted to compromise with Mr. Potter; at the very least I wanted him to acknowledge his mistake. However, his first instinct was to try and push the blame onto me.

"It is not the shippers duty to operate his crystal ball to figure out what your shipping location looks like" he said in an email to me. The package was worth over $500, and he felt it was appropriate to send it without protection. He didn't even bother asking me for the $12 to cover the shipment, which I gladly would have paid.

As far as I'm concerned, when you are handling someone else's property, you always make the safest decision and handle it with the utmost care.

Michael Potter is irresponsible and a coward. He'll probably never let something like this happen again, but I will not endorse anyone who resorts to insults and backpeddling to avoid accountability for a mistake. If you choose to do business with him, do so at your own risk.

 

[benyaM95 Ranger Knif]

I'm sorry, but I think that all sides of the deal(time, money, shipping etc.) should have been clearly discussed and agreed upon way before you sent your knives for customization.
If there was a certain way, you wanted your knives handled/shipped - you should have stated that in the initial conversation with him.

 

[Kyui Su Kim]

I'm sorry, but I think that all sides of the deal(time, money, shipping etc.) should have been clearly discussed and agreed upon way before you sent your knives for customization.
If there was a certain way, you wanted your knives handled/shipped - you should have stated that in the initial conversation with him.

I dont think it is too much for anyone to expect that an expensive knife be at least insured. It is the senders/person mailing's responsiblity to make sure the package makes it. I know that when I send a knife out that is worth more than $100, I want some sort of insurance on it and I dont think BleedingEdge is being unreasonable for expecting that.

BTW, sorry to hear about your predicament I read your earlier post and I must say that you are much more forgiving and patient than I would have been. At least an apology would be warranted.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

it is not the recipients responsibility to ensure he receives a package.

 

[TheBleedingEdge]

I'm sorry, but I think that all sides of the deal(time, money, shipping etc.) should have been clearly discussed and agreed upon way before you sent your knives for customization.
If there was a certain way, you wanted your knives handled/shipped - you should have stated that in the initial conversation with him.

I understand where you're coming from, but there are certain things that don't need to be plainly stated ahead of time, because overlooking them doesn't make sense. I didn't have to tell him to put the knives in a box before shipping them, or to tape the box shut, or to make sure he turned off the oven before he left the house. Insuring a very valuable package is one of those things.

One might argue that he was reluctant to pay for the insurance himself, but how hard would it have been to just ask for $12?

In the end, that argument is irrelevant. After the box went missing, he told me in an email that he never insures packages. This is pretty indicative of a man who isn't terribly concerned with things once they're out of sight.

 

[Ookpik]

M. Potter should pay for your knives. They are his responsibility until they are back in your hands. If he doesn't want to insure them, he should cover the loss himself. Also, he should not be paid for his work.

 

[frontline29]

Man you should look into a PO box. Sounds like someone is thieving your mail from your front porch.

Sorry to hear about this again...

 

[MORIMOTOM]

I understand where you're coming from, but there are certain things that don't need to be plainly stated ahead of time, because overlooking them doesn't make sense. I didn't have to tell him to put the knives in a box before shipping them, or to tape the box shut, or to make sure he turned off the oven before he left the house. Insuring a very valuable package is one of those things.

One might argue that he was reluctant to pay for the insurance himself, but how hard would it have been to just ask for $12?

In the end, that argument is irrelevant. After the box went missing, he told me in an email that he never insures packages. This is pretty indicative of a man who isn't terribly concerned with things once they're out of sight.

that's odd. i assume you paid ~$200 for his services?

i don't understand why he would not insure his own work.

 

[Lycosa]

I'm sorry to hear this.
I hope this situation can be repaired.

 

[benyaM95 Ranger Knif]

..... but there are certain things that don't need to be plainly stated ahead of time, because overlooking them doesn't make sense.

That's probably the number one reason why people end up in small claims court.
When entering a contract one can not assume that the other party views and understands the terms in the same way. I'm sorry that you lost your knives, but.... not much can be done about it.

 

[STR]

Thats why I have a work order form that people fill out and use before shipping. If you want insurance you tell me you want it. If I miss it and you put it on paper in writing that you wanted it then its my fault. If you don't ask specifically for insurance then its your fault. The question arises then, did you Bleeding Edge specifically discuss and request that these knives be insured and that you have to sign for them? Did you mail them to him that way where they were insured? If not then I would have to contend that Mr. Potter simply did it the way you did following your example. The issue of spending someone's money for them has come up more than once in the time I've been dealing with folks here and on other forums. I'm not trying to stir the pot but a few members have said some rather harsh words at times to me about shipping costs, having to sign for something that they were not home to sign for and now having to make a special trip to the post office to get their knives and me taking the liberty to spend their money for them. Its like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't at times when we are just trying to do a service. I'm not taking sides here but the issue is such that unless you specifically discussed how he was supposed to mail these back to you I don't see how he can be held responsible or as you said, irresponsible.

I feel for you and the loss as I said in the post in your other thread but I had to share that much because as a person that could very well end up in a similar situation at some point due to the amount of materials shipped my way and shipped back these issues need to be brought up and up front if you are using a maker or pimper from any of the forums or within the industry.

STR

 

[TheBleedingEdge]

Thats why I have a work order form that people fill out and use before shipping. If you want insurance you tell me you want it. If I miss it and you put it on paper in writing that you wanted it then its my fault. If you don't ask specifically for insurance then its your fault. The question arises then, did you Bleeding Edge specifically discuss and request that these knives be insured and that you have to sign for them? Did you mail them to him that way where they were insured? If not then I would have to contend that Mr. Potter simply did it the way you did following your example. The issue of spending someone's money for them has come up more than once in the time I've been dealing with folks here and on other forums. I'm not trying to stir the pot but a few members have said some rather harsh words at times to me about shipping costs, having to sign for something that they were not home to sign for and now having to make a special trip to the post office to get their knives and me taking the liberty to spend their money for them. Its like we're damned if we do and damned if we don't at times when we are just trying to do a service. I'm not taking sides here but the issue is such that unless you specifically discussed how he was supposed to mail these back to you I don't see how he can be held responsible or as you said, irresponsible.

I feel for you and the loss as I said in the post in your other thread but I had to share that much because as a person that could very well end up in a similar situation at some point due to the amount of materials shipped my way and shipped back these issues need to be brought up and up front if you are using a maker or pimper from any of the forums or within the industry.

STR

I understand completely the perspective that you're coming from, STR. People can be difficult to please, and I don't begrudge you or any other knife maker their right to claim immunity in cases where expectations are ambiguous. I assure you, I am not making these aspersions on Mr. Potter's character without good reason. His failures are numerous and indefensible.

To be clear, there was no formal written agreement about the work to be done on the knives and the methods by which they were to be shipped; apart from the emails we exchanged, of course. With hindsight, it would have been a good idea to lay something out, but we were both friendly and casual in the beginning so a written agreement didn't seem necessary.

When it came time for me to send him the knives, I informed him that I would be sending them with insurance, so he was aware. I did not have to send them with signature confirmation, since I was sending them to a post office box. He was also aware of this.

When the knives turned up lost, I was patient with Mr. Potter. I told him that I had no intention on trying to push blame on one person or another, since there were numerous factors which contributed to their disappearance (in addition to the lack of insurance, the mail man who delivered the knives that day was not my regular mailman, Joe, but a substitute on Joe's sick day - he left the package on the front door step rather than at the side door like usual, so it was in plain sight).

I thought it was a bit extreme forcing all of the financial liability on Mr. Potter, so I didn't make any initial accusations. I did, however, let him know how unhappy I was with his carelessness.

Mr. Potter initially responded with guilt. He offered to do free customization jobs if I could find another Persian and Super CQC-8 to send to him. This makes me believe he feels more responsible for the loss of the knives than he wants to admit. He doesn't want to say it outright because that would make him liable in the event I decided to take him to small claims.

I can understand his reasons for refusing to accept blame, even though he is in the wrong. However, actively trying to re-direct the blame onto me is not acceptable - and certainly not with the excuse that he "just didn't know what my house looked like".

You never send a package valued at over $100 without some kind of coverage, no matter where it is going.

 

[sheathmaker]

I ship a lot of packages weekly. I do not, as a matter of course, insure anything unless the owner/recipient specifically requests coverage. If a package comes to me insured and the owner/recipient has not advised me about insurance, then I take the time to call, if I have a number, e mail if not, and ask about the insurance coverage and amount. Here's the kicker...about half the time they say no, it'll be all right just send it priority with D/C. (which is the way I mail everything.)

I DO believe it is the responsibility of the owner/recipient to advise me. It is NOT my responsibility to track him down and ask even though I do it.

If the subject maker here can prove he mailed the package to the right address, and there was no specific instruction concerning insurance and the Post Office can prove it was, in fact , delivered, then case closed. No fault for the maker. That's how I view it.

I am sorry for your loss and wish it had not happened.

Paul

 

[TheBleedingEdge]

I ship a lot of packages weekly. I do not, as a matter of course, insure anything unless the owner/recipient specifically requests coverage.

There's a distinction that needs to be made here, though. I would guess from your username that you sell custom knife sheaths. The sheaths are not the property of the recipients until they actually receive them. To me, that's different than entrusting someone with knives that you already own.

Our transaction was more than just a purchase - I trusted him to take care of my property. That's why I feel betrayed.

I could be wrong about what you do. Maybe people send you their things for customization. But I just wanted to put that out there, because I think there is an important distinction.

If a package comes to me insured and the owner/recipient has not advised me about insurance, then I take the time to call, if I have a number, e mail if not, and ask about the insurance coverage and amount. Here's the kicker...about half the time they say no, it'll be all right just send it priority with D/C. (which is the way I mail everything.)

If half the time they don't want insurance, then the other half of the time they do. You wouldn't assume to send off a valuable piece of property without at least confirming it.

Michael Potter made no such attempt to contact me, even though we were sharing regular correspondence.

If the subject maker here can prove he mailed the package to the right address, and there was no specific instruction concerning insurance and the Post Office can prove it was, in fact , delivered, then case closed. No fault for the maker. That's how I view it.

This is sort of what I'm getting at. My goal was never to make Mr. Potter pay for the lost knives. That seems too severe a punishment to me.

My problem was the disrespect. He had the nerve to start pointing fingers almost immediately, trying to turn blame on me as if we were children playing indoors, and daddy came home to find a broken vase.

He's not solely responsible for the loss of the knives - there were numerous factors. But the knives certainly would not have been lost if he had taken appropriate steps to seeing that they were insured and signature-confirmed.

Remember, we're talking about a package valued at over $500 here. What on earth goes through a person's mind to make them think not insuring it is okay?

I'm glad that so many knife makers are stepping in to respond. I'm getting a better sense of how it is from the other side of the bargaining table, and that's a valuable perspective to have. But I know I'm in the right here. There is no excuse for sending a valuable package out without at least checking with the recipient.

 

[Haze]

It is a bit of a poor show to just give you an "oh well, that the way she goes". When I send something you pay for insurance and signature on delivery wether you want it or not. While I have never lost a package so far, I have had two people try to get wise with me and say stuff didn't turn up. That was enough for me.

It might be nice to have Mr. P. jump in here and give a few words.......

 

[5.56]

I put delivery confirmation on everything.

Insurance is optional.

 

[hardheart]

There's a distinction that needs to be made here, though. I would guess from your username that you sell custom knife sheaths. The sheaths are not the property of the recipients until they actually receive them. To me, that's different than entrusting someone with knives that you already own.

He has to have their knife to make the sheath.

I have found that insurance is very often refused or never requested, even international shipping.

 

[sjhong]

If taken to the Small Claims Court this case may not hold, but I have to side with the OP in terms of common sense and business etiquette. A service provider should be extremely careful when handling and shipping expensive goods, much more so if it belongs to the customer. A courtesy call asking for shipping instructions would have been in order.

Customers can overlook one or another detail, professionals can't (or at least, shouldn't).

I always explain (or ask for) shipping instructions to the point of redundancy. I treat everybody as if they were mentally handicapped and I repeat the information many times until I feel it has sunk in. Funny thing is that even though I do so and the other party acknowledges, some still make mistakes.

 

[Esav Benyamin]

The shipper can please himself as to how he ships, what carrier, what special services, but he still has an obligation to get the product to the customer.

If a shipper has 100% success over time and many deliveries, he may not want to buy insurance any more. In that case, he himself has to make good on a shipment that doesn't arrive.

 

[Liveitloud]

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your knives. That can't be an easy pill to swallow. You seem like a very reasonable person. The one thing that sticks out to me is that you insured the package going to him. That would have indicated to me if I were in his place that you were concerned about the safety of your package.

I have had a knife customized by Michael and the deal went perfectly and he had very good communication. I certainly hope that something can be worked out between you two.