microtech lcc or sebenza
- Thread starter rick45acp
- Start date
one thing about the seby......you wont have to worry about whether or not you have to send it back right after you open the plastic bag its in and it doesnt work right!!
I might add that I posted this because I have had four and only one was NICE out of the box....and another thing that I do not like....they weigh a ton!
[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 04-24-2001).]
I might add that I posted this because I have had four and only one was NICE out of the box....and another thing that I do not like....they weigh a ton!
[This message has been edited by tom mayo (edited 04-24-2001).]
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Awww.... I was actually getting excited that someone might find me a $200 small Sebbie, NIB. As I've said, I do think they're good knives, just overpriced. I would be happy to own one, at that price.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
Well, my opinion of the Sebenza has taken a downturn.
I still appreciate the lock innovation, and the precision to which it is manufactured, and the fact that can be disassembled by the user for maintenance (this is perhaps the most attractive feature to me). And I still dislike the ergonomics.
The problems are:
The fact that there are some reports here of lock failure apparently due to improper firing of the lock face or not firing it all, or perhaps some other reason(s) unknown to me.
The recent price increase, for which I see little reason given that no new design or retooling has been necessary, nor upgrades added. And it appears as though it may be retail pricing based on demand. Something which we are starting to see with a small number of dealers (so far). Which is something which may upset the upscale folder market as we now know it. And I suspect that a very high percentage of new sales are going to unknowledgeable newbies moving up in a rapidly expanding market.
And it is pushing into custom price territory, maybe $20 short of a Carson small mdl 4 in 420V and cf scales. (an easy choice for me)
And frankly the fanatical behavior by some, as can be seen in the current thread in the CRK forum regarding 'retail price maintenance', proof of which is probably not in writing, but has seemed to be pretty much understood for some time (according to posts here and private conversations I have had with people who shuld know). It is a reasonable subject to post, and a rational argument was made to support it. And the poster was severly attacked.
Remember when Mike Turber posted in no uncertain terms (all caps) that MT's pricing policy was illegal? I don't recall a vicious outburst over that.
So, do I still think it's worth every penny? NO.
If you've just got to have one, then you've just got to.
Frankly, given all the hyperbole, I'm sick of hearing about the damn thing.
And I can say without any reluctance whatsoever, that it is, afterall, just a knife.
Severly lacking in character except for the scuffs on the Ti handle after some carry.
Have we reached the point where we're willing to deify a grey framelock folder from CRK?
It may have been the first high quality frame lock, but we're here now.
[This message has been edited by RKnight (edited 04-27-2001).]
I still appreciate the lock innovation, and the precision to which it is manufactured, and the fact that can be disassembled by the user for maintenance (this is perhaps the most attractive feature to me). And I still dislike the ergonomics.
The problems are:
The fact that there are some reports here of lock failure apparently due to improper firing of the lock face or not firing it all, or perhaps some other reason(s) unknown to me.
The recent price increase, for which I see little reason given that no new design or retooling has been necessary, nor upgrades added. And it appears as though it may be retail pricing based on demand. Something which we are starting to see with a small number of dealers (so far). Which is something which may upset the upscale folder market as we now know it. And I suspect that a very high percentage of new sales are going to unknowledgeable newbies moving up in a rapidly expanding market.
And it is pushing into custom price territory, maybe $20 short of a Carson small mdl 4 in 420V and cf scales. (an easy choice for me)
And frankly the fanatical behavior by some, as can be seen in the current thread in the CRK forum regarding 'retail price maintenance', proof of which is probably not in writing, but has seemed to be pretty much understood for some time (according to posts here and private conversations I have had with people who shuld know). It is a reasonable subject to post, and a rational argument was made to support it. And the poster was severly attacked.
Remember when Mike Turber posted in no uncertain terms (all caps) that MT's pricing policy was illegal? I don't recall a vicious outburst over that.
So, do I still think it's worth every penny? NO.
If you've just got to have one, then you've just got to.
Frankly, given all the hyperbole, I'm sick of hearing about the damn thing.
And I can say without any reluctance whatsoever, that it is, afterall, just a knife.
Severly lacking in character except for the scuffs on the Ti handle after some carry.
Have we reached the point where we're willing to deify a grey framelock folder from CRK?
It may have been the first high quality frame lock, but we're here now.
[This message has been edited by RKnight (edited 04-27-2001).]
RKnight,
rick45acp was asking for a comparison; not a speech on why you don't like the Senbenza.
You didn't even mention the LCC.
I believe Anne said there hasn't been a price increase since 1997.
Suppose you and your people did not get a salary increase in 4 years?
If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it.
There are many many people who think it is worth it.
People was complain about the price make me sick.
Sorry for ranting like RKnight.
rick45acp, you should handle both knives and decide for yourself.
The Sebenza is a great knife and my EDC.
I found the d/a LCC a fun knife, but too bulky for EDC.
Is the Sebenza worth that much more?
Too me and many others; yes!
Your EDC is a very personal thing,
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Rick Gray - Left Handers Unite
rick45acp was asking for a comparison; not a speech on why you don't like the Senbenza.
You didn't even mention the LCC.
I believe Anne said there hasn't been a price increase since 1997.
Suppose you and your people did not get a salary increase in 4 years?
If you don't think it's worth the price don't buy it.
There are many many people who think it is worth it.
People was complain about the price make me sick.
Sorry for ranting like RKnight.
rick45acp, you should handle both knives and decide for yourself.
The Sebenza is a great knife and my EDC.
I found the d/a LCC a fun knife, but too bulky for EDC.
Is the Sebenza worth that much more?
Too me and many others; yes!
Your EDC is a very personal thing,
------------------
Rick Gray - Left Handers Unite
stjames
Sebenzanista
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JB- If you lack patience , you should show a little initiative. You seem like a bright enough fellow, Im sure you could stumble across a good deal if you were really interested in finding it.
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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
[This message has been edited by stjames (edited 04-28-2001).]
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Um, I don't see anything saying that knife is brand new? And I know too many people who have been burned on eBay to trust that place.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-28-2001).]
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-28-2001).]
RGRAY,
I did reply on the LCC vs the Sebenza earlier in this thread.
What prompted my suddenly negative attitude (a reversal in attitude) toward the Sebenza was the thread in the CRK forum regarding 'retail price maintenance' where the poster was severly and outrageously attacked. As Cliff Stamp stated in his reply in that thread, that kind of behavior could generate a negative attitude toward that product. And it did for me.
Perhaps I should have replied there, but I replied here on impulse.
However, I'm getting over it, now that I've seen the new Mnundi model.
Good concept, and it's nice to see a new folder offering from CRK.
There is recent thread in the CRK forum announcing a flat ground blade option for the Sebenza. And while it isn't stated clearly, one could interpret the announcement as meaning the blade will be machine ground. And why not? It's a production knife and if a machine can produce the blade on the LCC then I think it's only a matter time till we see more of it. Of course if this is true then it's another reason to object to the price increase because the cost of making the Sebenza would decrease and production would expand. If people who like the Sebenza do not object, then I think they will gradually transition to machine ground blades. This is, of course pure speculation on my part.
Best regards,
Ron Knight
[This message has been edited by RKnight (edited 04-28-2001).]
I did reply on the LCC vs the Sebenza earlier in this thread.
What prompted my suddenly negative attitude (a reversal in attitude) toward the Sebenza was the thread in the CRK forum regarding 'retail price maintenance' where the poster was severly and outrageously attacked. As Cliff Stamp stated in his reply in that thread, that kind of behavior could generate a negative attitude toward that product. And it did for me.
Perhaps I should have replied there, but I replied here on impulse.
However, I'm getting over it, now that I've seen the new Mnundi model.
There is recent thread in the CRK forum announcing a flat ground blade option for the Sebenza. And while it isn't stated clearly, one could interpret the announcement as meaning the blade will be machine ground. And why not? It's a production knife and if a machine can produce the blade on the LCC then I think it's only a matter time till we see more of it. Of course if this is true then it's another reason to object to the price increase because the cost of making the Sebenza would decrease and production would expand. If people who like the Sebenza do not object, then I think they will gradually transition to machine ground blades. This is, of course pure speculation on my part.
Best regards,
Ron Knight
[This message has been edited by RKnight (edited 04-28-2001).]
stjames
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Again, LNIB is not the saw thing as brand new. I've stated that $100-off would be a fair price for a new Sebbie. I don't like having to constantly repeat the 'new' part. I would not pay a price which I consider good for a new one, for a used one.
--JB
[spelling]
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-29-2001).]
--JB
[spelling]
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by e_utopia (edited 04-29-2001).]
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As I OWN both knives I can answer honestly and with a bit of authority on this subject. Both knives are so well made, fitted and finished that the ONLY difference that I could come up with that I was willing to bring up was the edge. On the Sebi you have a convex grind. On the LCC a standard grind. Not a big deal, but a little detail. Both blades a fantastic and built to the 9th degree. My LCC is the D/A model BTW.
The Sebi is a manual and has a better blade steel (BG42 vs 154CM).
However the frame lock of the Sebi is better than ANY liner lock I have seen. Given the choice, if I could afford either with no problem I would get the Sebi. If however you accept that the Sebi is often well over $140 more than a basic LCC and you would have to save for the Sebi, I would get the LCC. It is in many ways as well made and only the liner lock vs Frame lock make it a real final issue for me.
Hope it helps!
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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
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Certified steel snob!
The Sebi is a manual and has a better blade steel (BG42 vs 154CM).
However the frame lock of the Sebi is better than ANY liner lock I have seen. Given the choice, if I could afford either with no problem I would get the Sebi. If however you accept that the Sebi is often well over $140 more than a basic LCC and you would have to save for the Sebi, I would get the LCC. It is in many ways as well made and only the liner lock vs Frame lock make it a real final issue for me.
Hope it helps!
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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto
A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
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I do not own a LCC, I wish I did. A few months ago people were really talking it up here, and I respect the opinions of the formites. It is a great looking knife and I am sure it's well made.
But...
I have three knives in BG-42, many in ATS-34 and 154 CM, and I rapidly becoming a fan of BG-42. Admittedly, these three knives were heat treated by Carson, Simonich and Reeves..some of the best. Two are hollow ground and one is flat, they all take an edge, and don't let go.
I also find the frame lock/integral lock to be the best suited to my needs (I hate coiled springs and such and they have yet to prove themselves).
On these two (important to me at least) points I would take the Sebenza over the LCC. Personally, I think that both have had far too much hype.
Steve-O
But...
I have three knives in BG-42, many in ATS-34 and 154 CM, and I rapidly becoming a fan of BG-42. Admittedly, these three knives were heat treated by Carson, Simonich and Reeves..some of the best. Two are hollow ground and one is flat, they all take an edge, and don't let go.
I also find the frame lock/integral lock to be the best suited to my needs (I hate coiled springs and such and they have yet to prove themselves).
On these two (important to me at least) points I would take the Sebenza over the LCC. Personally, I think that both have had far too much hype.
Steve-O
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Hello folks,
I gotta say I'm with E_utopia.
I have handeled a Sebenza several times, and I don't see how it could be better then a Benchmade Pinnacle - agreed, I had several and only one had NO QC problems -. I have a LCC too, and it is beautiful, especially compared to a Sebenza. I always wondered what made the sebenza so good.. The hype or the knife it self. Another thing.. for collector, a sebbie is a good choice. But I'd go for a Carson or a Mayo Custom. The Sebenza is lost somewhere in it's pricerange. It's too expensive to be a real user - I'd hate to loose a 350 $ knife - and too cheap to be a real custom.
I don't understand for which reason a sebenza costs soo much, especially compared to a Benchmade pinnacle or a LCC. One is a framelock and the other is made to the same high standards. If an LCC would be a framelock.... Bye bye sebenza.
Sebenza would be a kickass knife in a 200 - 250 $ retail class. Then it would cost like 150 on the forums or less.
Which comes first: They hype for a knife? or the knife and then the hype? most people who get a sebenza have read soo much good reviews that most get something like: 'this is it?'
I'd say, get the LCC hands down, and if you have money to buy a sebenza, get a custom or two LCC's and a Pinnacle if you want a frame lock.
Greetz, Bart.
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I gotta say I'm with E_utopia.
I have handeled a Sebenza several times, and I don't see how it could be better then a Benchmade Pinnacle - agreed, I had several and only one had NO QC problems -. I have a LCC too, and it is beautiful, especially compared to a Sebenza. I always wondered what made the sebenza so good.. The hype or the knife it self. Another thing.. for collector, a sebbie is a good choice. But I'd go for a Carson or a Mayo Custom. The Sebenza is lost somewhere in it's pricerange. It's too expensive to be a real user - I'd hate to loose a 350 $ knife - and too cheap to be a real custom.
I don't understand for which reason a sebenza costs soo much, especially compared to a Benchmade pinnacle or a LCC. One is a framelock and the other is made to the same high standards. If an LCC would be a framelock.... Bye bye sebenza.
Sebenza would be a kickass knife in a 200 - 250 $ retail class. Then it would cost like 150 on the forums or less.
Which comes first: They hype for a knife? or the knife and then the hype? most people who get a sebenza have read soo much good reviews that most get something like: 'this is it?'
I'd say, get the LCC hands down, and if you have money to buy a sebenza, get a custom or two LCC's and a Pinnacle if you want a frame lock.
Greetz, Bart.
------------------
"If the world wouldn't SUCK, we'd all fall off !"
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I think what Tom is trying to say is that both knives would be WAY nicer with a few holes popped through them. Couple .45 slugs through the LCC would sweeten it up beautifully!
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John Gonzalez
Exclusive Dealer
Mineral Mountain Hatchet Works
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John Gonzalez
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Ever seen what LCC liners look like? I think Tom is working for Microtech
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com