Microtech's RAM lock discussion

Guncleana said:
Something I haven’t seen anyone mention is how weak the detent is on the open, a very slight shake and blade breaks the detent, for me personally this is a much bigger problem than the spine whack failures I’m wondering if a stronger spring would fix this issue
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It's the same detent that can be found on any Axis Lock knife. The spring pressure and friction on the pivot are the only things keeping it closed. I have an MSI and an Amphibian, and both came with higher detents than I preferred, so I loosened the pivots a little. I'd suggest you tighten your pivots and the screws on your stop pins until you get the detent you like.

Also, I've owned my MSI since May and Amphibian since early September, neither has experienced a lock failure, and they're among my most carried and used knives since I got them. Some people have similar issues with Axis locks, but I've never had one of those fail in the 15 years or so since I got my first Benchmade. Maybe some people just aren't used to or just don't like Axis style locks.
 
jux t said:
Uh, what? Are you saying a gun’s safety shouldn’t be subjected to testing? I fully expect my safeties to work, and testing them in a safe manner isn’t a silly idea. Do you think locks and safeties aren’t worth testing? Really?
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No that isn't what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying whacking the spine of a folder is akin to intentionally applying extreme pressure to a gun safety in a direction/ manner it wasn't ever intended for.

If you put a dowel punch on the face of a trigger with safety engaged and hit it with a hammer to see if you could get the gun to fire it would:

A. Be incredibly stupid

B. Not be the fault of the gunmaker nor covered under any type of warranty.
 
J. Doyle said:
No that isn't what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying whacking the spine of a folder is akin to intentionally applying extreme pressure to a gun safety in a direction/ manner it wasn't ever intended for.

If you put a dowel punch on the face of a trigger with safety engaged and hit it with a hammer to see if you could get the gun to fire it would:

A. Be incredibly stupid

B. Not be the fault of the gunmaker nor covered under any type of warranty.
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Well surely there’s some amount of pressure between a light breeze and smacking with a hammer that should be used to make sure these safety devices are safe.

If a gun safety is applied, I’d expect the trigger to withstand getting caught on a branch and pulled hard. If a knife lock is applied, I’d expect it to hold against downward pressure if used to stab or if it inadvertently gets smacked against another object.

That’s what I expect from these safety devices, and I get that different people have different levels of expectations.
 
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jux t said:
Well surely there’s some amount of pressure between a light breeze and smacking with a hammer that should be used to make sure these safety devices are safe.

If a gun safety is applied, I’d expect the trigger to withstand getting caught on a branch and pulled hard. If a knife lock is applied, I’d expect it to hold against downward pressure if used to stab or if it inadvertently gets smacked against another object.

That’s what I expect from these safety devices, and I get that different people have different levels of expectations.
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Agreed.

I don't see anybody claiming you need to be able to drive nails with the spine of your folding knife, but I cannot fathom rationalizing an expensive folder not handling a firm impact or static force. That's the point of the lock, after all.

It's one thing if the lock mechanism takes damage from impact or static loading and the knife now has vertical play, but many times a lock isn't functioning correctly at all and is slipping rather than sticking fast via friction like all modern self-adjusting locks are supposed to.
 
marrenmiller said:
but I cannot fathom rationalizing an expensive folder not handling a firm impact or static force. That's the point of the lock, after all.
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The point of the lock is to handle hard whacks to the spine? That's a new one on me.

There's no way to account for sudden loading that happens on impact. It isn't predictable or repeatable. And say whatever you like....it isn't the intended use for a knife.

I can't fathom someone doing something with a tool it wasn't designed to do then complaining that it didn't go as they expected.

For the record, I don't have a microtech with that style of lock and probably never will so I'm no fanboi.
 
J. Doyle said:
The point of the lock is to handle hard whacks to the spine? That's a new one on me.

There's no way to account for sudden loading that happens on impact. It isn't predictable or repeatable. And say whatever you like....it isn't the intended use for a knife.

I can't fathom someone doing something with a tool it wasn't designed to do then complaining that it didn't go as they expected.

For the record, I don't have a microtech with that style of lock and probably never will so I'm no fanboi.
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Not sure if you misunderstood, but what was written in my post was "handling a firm impact or static force". I think most people would agree that the lock is supposed to help protect the user against accidental loads on the blade. You are entitled to a different opinion. Mine is this:

Locks aren't rocket science. If the surfaces engage correctly and the lock is well designed and made, they can withstand way more than you'd ever need them to in the event of an accidental impact to the spine or even knowing misuse. Case in point with a prior Microtech knife:

 
YaArArYa said:
it fails with a spine wack..... thats fine , so dose my Victorinox Pioneer
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Agree
Had a Msi in g10 and honestly loved the design since i DO consider myself as a somewhat silly Fanboy - and i bought it cause it seemed superfriendly for southpaws like me.

But it failed E Easy hits to the spine and thats not what i Expect from a lock.
I dont pry or baton but neither does my reeve fail nor my protech nor my Ludt. And thats what i Expect from a maker. Nothing more, nothing less.
So i Asume ram/axis locks (the sexy they are i have to say) are dead for me...just for me.

Thanx and greets from Austria
 
edgeweasy said:
Agree
Had a Msi in g10 and honestly loved the design since i DO consider myself as a somewhat silly Fanboy - and i bought it cause it seemed superfriendly for southpaws like me.

But it failed E Easy hits to the spine and thats not what i Expect from a lock.
I dont pry or baton but neither does my reeve fail nor my protech nor my Ludt. And thats what i Expect from a maker. Nothing more, nothing less.
So i Asume ram/axis locks (the sexy they are i have to say) are dead for me...just for me.

Thanx and greets from Austria
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Axis is very different vs Ram locks. Axis lock you can thump on and be just fine. These Ram locks at least the early releases have problems.
 
Well of course there are differences, BM might have tought it thru and tested it longer.
But as i Said for Me and only imho both locks might be superfidgety but they just leave me disapointed
 
DocJD said:
IDK , even the name Ram Lock sounds pretty "Dodgy" to me ! :p
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Considering a RAM as something sturdy...bit of a domestiziced beast.
Anyway i'll stay away from MT folders.
1. Lefty
2. See above
3. For ME They are a otf company...just saw the New CT hmmm😍
 
edgeweasy said:
Considering a RAM as something sturdy...bit of a domestiziced beast.
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I have had considerable experience with rams. The connotation should be "hard headed".

Speaking of which, the other day I was taking a bale of hay in a cart out to the sheep. A dozen or so ravenous ewes (not rams, although the story would have been better with rams) gathered round the cart. As I leaned over the bale, opening my knife to cut the strings, a lamb weighing about 80 lbs got impatient and leaped onto the bale. The top of her very hard head met the spine of my knife. If the lock had not been secure, I might have lost the tips of a finger or two.

Accidents happen.
 
I got this mt ram loc a few weeks ago. I had read some of the earlier reports about it failing the spine whack test. Mine is pretty hard to disengage the lock. I'm wondering if mt didn't put a stronger spring in it to keep the lock engaged better. I have many benchmade axis locks and the mt is much stronger than any of them.20231117_082458.jpg
 
The point of a lock is to keep the blade from closing on your fingers. It's literally to "lock" the knife open. I'm in the camp that a lock should be able to handle a light hit to the spine, not hammering, not full on smacking with all your strength, but a good ding to the spine.

If the lock on a folder gives under being wacked on my hand, that's a fail. Plenty of circumstances where a knife may be used to cut in tight quarters or locations with other items around or behind the blade and may encounter a potential hit to the spine.

How do you know if your knife will close if you have a moderate accidental impact to the spine if you don't test it? I'd rather not have a tendon cut to find out. I hit all my folders against my palm with a good whack and if it passes we're good. I've had many knives fail it including zt, hinderer, and more. My inkosi doesn't fail it.

If someone doesn't think a lock is supposed to keep the knife from closing, then what differentiates a locking folder from a slip joint?


Any knife lock will work if the user only ever applies pressure while cutting, slippies do that just fine, the point of a lock in my opinion is to hold the blade open when forces other than pressure on the knifes edge are at play.

My 2 cents that are worth less than 2 cents.


I'll add, the older crowd that grew up on slip joints and are super mindful of where the pressure is applied see locks as secondary to common sense, which I understand. But the fact is, knife locks and technology has come a long way and a good locking folder can be used harder than a slip joint. If a lock won't hold the blade open under minor opposing forces than it's more dangerous than just selling the knife as a slip joint.
 
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