military toughness

See, for me, I wanna love the Military, but the thin liner lock concerns me. Yes, it saves on weight, but for a military knife, I'd imagine it could take a fair amount of stabbing (thrust cutting) without damage, yet, I have had a friend who did this to wood, not even that hard and after there was blade play.

A lot of people would say not to stab into wood, but for a military knife, that is build for soldiers, i'd say it is still a good test. The liners can be milled out and a little thicker and I'm sure people would love them.
 
I love my Military! It's been nothing awesome. As far as its toughness is concerned.... I'd say from experience that it is top notch. In my opinion, it's well above average for the price range. Just last week I used it to clear an over grown trail so I could push my son on it in his stroller.

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Oh yea, and I carry it everyday!
 
Well, Spydercos are nice, really they are good looking blades. A lot of what Spyderco does is a collect-ability thing, which the sprints runs, high end or rarely used steels, unique or different coloring. But, IMO if a knife is going to be called the military, it should live up to it's name.

The reason why I haven't purchased a lot of spydercos, is because of their liner locks. Thats why previously, I have asked about them. I don't think a fixed blade is required to do mildly hard stabs into wood or even drilling with the tip. A bunch of knives have locks that can stand up to this USE. It is definitely not abuse. No hammering is happening. Yet, after mildly hard strikes, the liner is bent a bit, not a lot, but enough to where the lock up isn't solid.

This has been my BIGGEST complaint with Spyderco stuff cause, they have some beautiful designs. But, quite possibly a soldier might be carrying this knife in his pocket and may need to use it for a defensive use. In that case, IMO the lock isn't strong enough. Thats all I'm saying. It doesn't need to be some super thick liner lock, but there can be a point where the weight and strength meet to show the best of both worlds. And no I'm not in the crowd saying you should baton with a folder, but folder locks need to be tough.

For example, there are people complaining about a 5.11 Alpha scout folder, which has a similar design, yes it is much cheaper, but has the same inset liners. People are complaining about that. But, when I talk about the same issue on a Spyderco, people get offended. I'm just trying to be honest. I love their designs, but if their liners were SLIGHTLY stronger, there knives would replace a large amount of the knives I own. This is the reason why I also chose a Manix 2 over a Millie.
 
Just put the compression lock on it already. But really its fine as is. A slightly thicker liner lock would not suck. Maybe add a 1/2 gram to the weight.
 
Outdoorsman, what experience do you have with the liner lock failing? I ask because though it may look "thin" to you, it feels very strong to me. I've stabbed this thing full tilt into trees, hard wood, even a thick stack of particle cardboard. (down at work we call it chipboard) One time I became a little fed up with the process of sharpening the S-30v and threw the knife down. It was a simply half rotation wrist throw from about 2 1/2 feet above the floor. The knife buried 1/2 inch into my floor. No damage, no blade play, and no lock failure.

I tell everyone these things not because I'm a Spyderco Fan-Boy, I do like a lot of their knives, but I also have many other brands and loyalties. I share my stories of experience to enlighten people to the capabilities of their knife.

The knife has proved to me long ago that it deserves its name. And that it is a very capable knife. Military or not. That being said..... If you need to PRY, get a PRYBAR.
 
europeanoutdoorsman said:
I don't think a fixed blade is required to do mildly hard stabs into wood or even drilling with the tip. A bunch of knives have locks that can stand up to this USE. It is definitely not abuse. No hammering is happening. Yet, after mildly hard strikes, the liner is bent a bit, not a lot, but enough to where the lock up isn't solid.
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I don't really believe you.
I stabbed my Military into wood and trees for admittedly no good reason, and it NEVER developed any "bend", or wiggle ar anything.

So, based on my eperience, as well as the ridiculous things my brother has done with his, I simply don't believe what you have said.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Msierant,

The Military model was designed to be an effective cutting tool for the Soldier. It's not the one you dig with, pry with, hammer with, that's what your duty knife is for. This is the one you cut with. It was designed to be very light for it's size. (The most important part about a knife is that you have it with you when you need it. If it's too heavy or bulky, you may choose not to carry it). We made the blade as long as we feel would be useful and practical. Any larger and the handle becomes large. We use the best American steels and scale materials for performance and low maintenance. We've been refining the design for 15 years. Hope that helps.

sal
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This sums it up, IMHO. Want to pry with your knife? Get a fixed blade. The Military was designed for one simple purpose....to cut.

With that being said, I've owned, and used, SEVERAL Military models and I've never had any issue with the nested linerlock(one of the best out there) on ANY of them.
 
Hi Europeanoutdoorsman,

We've been making and refining the Military for more than 15 years. That has never been a complaint.

sal
 
Hi Sal,
I wasn't trying to be rude, but, rather it was an attempt at constructive criticism. I think it is a fair statement.

Like I said, people will criticize the same design on different brands, but when it comes to Spyderco, it seems like there is a "can do no wrong attitude". Don't get me wrong, I have NEVER had a problem with quality or anything else with Spydercos. They are great, otherwise they wouldn't have the reputation they have. All I am suggesting is a slightly stronger lock for a knife named the military.

Even others have the same issue. They claim the liner lock flexes.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/868867-spyderco-military-lock-test

@ shunsui
I actually was in the Army and served in a deployment so I know what the difference between the military and Rambo is. I'm not asking something wild or absurd.

The issue I have is the blade thickness to lock strength ratio. Again, I'm just suggesting this should be looked at. Locks can fail and when they do it is usually not good for the user. Thats all I'm saying. This is the reason I go with OTHER knives which have OTHER locks from Spyderco.
 
I once bought a second hand BG42 Military, where the lock slid across the lockface, when pressure was applied to the spine. Most people agreed, that it was caused by wear and tear. Spydercos customer service also said that it might be wear and tear (they only saw a video of the problem).

I sent it back to the seller and got another S30V Military. This one is rock solid and i have no qualms trusting the Military.
 
stabman said:
I don't really believe you.
I stabbed my Military into wood and trees for admittedly no good reason, and it NEVER developed any "bend", or wiggle ar anything.

So, based on my eperience, as well as the ridiculous things my brother has done with his, I simply don't believe what you have said.
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Me neither. There is one huge flaw with the Military, and that is its tip-down carry only option. I don't think the knife can be improved upon once that's taken care off without altering the design in fundamental ways, which would make it something other than a Military. It has a thin tip but that is its design. It has one of the strongest liner locks I've seen on any folder of this size, and certainly this weight. I own two, one of which always goes camping/backpacking with me. It doesn't look it but if feels and functions like the day it was born. It is TOUGH.
 
This did happen. I'm not talking about a full on bend, but there was a small amount of play. Could this be from an error in the lock itself from factory? I don't care about a delicate tip as in a lot of cases, the tip wears with use anyway. But the tip up carry would be cool.

Cause as far as I know, the inset steel liners do add rigidity to the overall construction of the knife, that is for sure!
 
We made the Military liner al little thicker about 10 years ago. Any more would requuire a cut-out relief to be able to unlock it....which doesn't make it any stronger. We've also experimented with differnt materials for the liner over the years and we still check it regularly. It takes a gread deal of force to bend a Mlitary Lnelock (about 550 inch/lbs per inch). Far more than a stab would create. We would haved to see this knife you speak of to determine actual cause of the bend befopre I could agree that a simple stab did so. Sorry, don't mean to doubt your work. Just saying there's more going on than someone is saying.

The Military lock has proved stronger than many of the well know strong linerlocks.

sal
 
Hi Sal,
Thanks for this information. I really didn't want to come off as complaining about your work. Again, I like Spydercos and its cool to have this discussion with a maker/ designer over the weekend.

Thanks for your time!
 
Hi Europeanoutdoorsman,

I didn't think you were complaining. Didn't sound like it to me. I thought you were sharing an experience. From my point of view, we must look at the "Mention of possible improvement" as more important than the "compliments of achievement". That's how we evolve. It's possible that the knife you saw was an older model (mid 90's) with the thinner liner? or?

the Military model was designed to be the alternate cutter for a soldier. They's usually pry, hammer, and dig with their issued fixed blade knife which will usually be too dull for serious cutting. We wanted the Military model to be large, light and strong so the soldier will be more inclined to carry it with them. (most important aspect of a knife is that you have it with you when you need it). Other than material changes, we've added a 2nd thin nested liner and 10 thou to the liner. We've made minor geometry changes as we learn better ways.

To make the liner thicker still would really have to prove it needed it. We don't need unecessary weight. That's why I'm curious about your experience. Our goal is; "No more than necessary and no less than perfect":. a goal we take seriously.

Is that knife available to you?

sal
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Europeanoutdoorsman,

... From my point of view, we must look at the "Mention of possible improvement" as more important than the "compliments of achievement". That's how we evolve. sal
Click to expand...


Sincere and knowledgeable compliments and criticisms should carry equal weight. If criticisms carry more weight, the knife will evolve away from the current characteristics that so many of us love just the way they are.

The major complaint I hear about the Military is that it is too delicate (fine point) and that the lock is too weak. The fine point and thin blade are exactly what I want. And the liner lock is more than strong enough, plus it's easy to use with one hand. To move away from the fine point means that the knife will suffer in its ability to cut. To move toward a super-duty lock means it will add weight. I already have enough weight in my pockets.

We want a broad range of knives that function differently because we all want or need different things in our knives. The Military is close to perfect as a large, strong and super-effective cutter. I appreciate that Spyderco's evolution of it has been in the form of minor tweaks, rather than major design changes that reduce or change the function of a fine cutter. There are plenty of heavy-duty folders out there for people who want them -- and they all cut poorly. I'd hate to see the Military move in that direction.
 
Twindog said:
The Military is close to perfect as a large, strong and super-effective cutter. There are plenty of heavy-duty folders out there for people who want them -- and they all cut poorly. I'd hate to see the Military move in that direction.
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My sentiments exactly, well said Twindog :thumbup:
 
Hi Twindog,

That is our exact concern. Do well but don't overdo. As Colin Chapman would say; "Simplicate and add lightness".

sal
 
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