Mineral oil Quenchant

I used to oil quench the tool and stainless steels and vegetable oils work just fine for that. Now I plate quench all of the air hardening steels and only oil quench Carbon steels-I use 1084, W1 and 52100-and they respond best to fast quench oils. I get the fast quench oil from K&G which I understand is Shell. It works very well and is considerably cheaper than olive oil, even with shipping.
 
As long as my shop is in the basement of my house I stick with using olive oil. Works well and doesn't stink up the house like mineral oils.

Important factors for the oil quench is temperature. I warm up the oil before dipping the hot knives to avoid thermal shock, and when the knives are dipped I keep the blade moving to maintain even cooling. Doing that reduced the chances of warpage.
 
Bufford said:
Important factors for the oil quench is temperature. I warm up the oil before dipping the hot knives to avoid thermal shock, and when the knives are dipped I keep the blade moving to maintain even cooling. Doing that reduced the chances of warpage.
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Not to stir things up even more, but I was under the impression that "thermal shock" (rapid cooling) is what hardens the steel. :) Isn't the purpose of heating oil to reduce viscocity and allow for the quenchant to flow better around the quenched part so that you keep cooler oil (which will carry away more heat) in more constant contact with the quenched piece? Ditto on the reasoning for moving the blade around in the quench.

Somebody please teach me if I'm wrong :)

-d
 
I think that I'm to heat the quench oil to make it move faster, and thereby cool faster.

Like warming up the cold car in the winter and allowing the motor oil to flow.
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But on the other hand, right now my quench oil is sitting around -25 below zero, and thats some mighty cold oil to be dumping red hot steel into...
 
deker said:
Speaking as someone who works in what some would call a "highly skilled field", I feel compelled to add my $.02 to this one. Chemistry is hard and people who truly understand it are few and far between. They also have spent a lot of time and money to gain their knowledge and position and they deserve adequite compensation for it. Companies that produce high-tech chemical products dump a lot of money into salaries for the "big brains", not to mention the expensive high-tech facilities and equipment for them to work in. Given that high cost of doing business, they have to charge what they have to charge to maintain their business. Sure, it may be "mineral oil with a few extras", but how many thousands of tests had to be done on how many hundreds of formulas in order to get to the one that works well? How many man hours did it take? How many compounds did they have to buy to find the ones that work well? How many millions did they spend on the testing equipment?

I suppose what I'm trying to say in short is that cost of an item isn't always necessarily just the cost of its components. If that was the case, all computer software should be free because 0s and 1s don't cost anything. (Had to throw that last one in since I'm a computer geek for a living :) )

Apologies for being a bit off topic on this one, and I certainly intend no offense to anybody.

-d
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I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that chemestry is hard. I spent 6 years and stopped a thesis short of a masters in biology. It only becomes hared if you are expected to memorize everything instead of using references. I stopped in part because I got tired of running in pompous *@*#*@ who felt entiteled to 6 figure salaries because of a few letters after their names.
It goes hand-in-hand with a basic problem with todays society, everyone wants to be rich. And they are willing to take advantage of others to get their. Big oil companys are making billions ($1,000,000,000+) profit (revenue - expenses) per quarter and they all claim they are just asking fair prices not fleecing anyone.
I know i'm ranting and will get off my soapbox before I offend anyone else. :)

To keep on topic, the more I read the more I want to try "real" quench oil. I would prefer to reduce variables.

ron
 
son_of_bluegrass said:
I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree that chemestry is hard. I spent 6 years and stopped a thesis short of a masters in biology. It only becomes hared if you are expected to memorize everything instead of using references.
ron
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I must say I get a chuckle out of your perspective on chemistry, Ron. I think it's a bit oversimplified, but I'm sure we have differing experiences that contribute to our respective viewpoints. Like all areas of expertise, one can learn just what's written down, or learn how to manipulate that information to new end and excel. I personally have just as much respect for a creative master machinist/modelmaker or accomplished artisan as I do for a good chemist. It is the mind/skill gestalt I admire, not institutionalized "letters" whether they be PhD or ABS MS. I know poor examples of both, as well as those who shine. I definitely share your healthy disrespect for the ivory towers; one could even say it defined who I am.

Thanks for the grin! :)
 
fitzo said:
I must say I get a chuckle out of your perspective on chemistry, Ron. I think it's a bit oversimplified, but I'm sure we have differing experiences that contribute to our respective viewpoints. Like all areas of expertise, one can learn just what's written down, or learn how to manipulate that information to new end and excel. I personally have just as much respect for a creative master machinist/modelmaker or accomplished artisan as I do for a good chemist. It is the mind/skill gestalt I admire, not institutionalized "letters" whether they be PhD or ABS MS. I know poor examples of both, as well as those who shine. I definitely share your healthy disrespect for the ivory towers; one could even say it defined who I am.

Thanks for the grin! :)
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Well said Fitzo!

Personally, I'm a college dropout who has risen to near the top of my field. Just because I don't have degrees doesn't mean I haven't worked hard to get here and earned the salary I make.

Soapbox off.

Now, I need to go get some more work done so I can afford some good quench oil :)

-d
 
deker said:
Personally, I'm a college dropout who has risen to near the top of my field. Just because I don't have degrees doesn't mean I haven't worked hard to get here and earned the salary I make.
-d
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Me, too, deker. Did it the hard way, but that's it's own story. Proud of it, too, because I proved myself over and over and over to earn every damned thing I ever got. In a world run by PhD's, by the time they've allowed you to rise into their "exalted" ranks without a degree and earned their respect for it, you've "done good, pilgrim". I admire talent, not paper.
 
fitzo said:
Me, too, deker. Did it the hard way, but that's it's own story. Proud of it, too, because I proved myself over and over and over to earn every damned thing I ever got. In a world run by PhD's, by the time they've allowed you to rise into their "exalted" ranks without a degree and earned their respect for it, you've "done good, pilgrim". I admire talent, not paper.
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Amen! I never went to college at all. :thumbup::D
 
Hey guys, let's not slam on Ph.Ds too much, some of us on the forum have and/or are working on Ph.Ds, and not all of us are pompous asses. :)

I'd have to say that I probably have more respect for a good craftsman than someone with their Ph.D. The academic stuff comes much easier to me than the craftsmanship.

:)

-Darren
 
Darren Ellis said:
Hey guys, let's not slam on Ph.Ds too much, some of us on the forum have and/or are working on Ph.Ds, and not all of us are pompous asses. :)

I'd have to say that I probably have more respect for a good craftsman than someone with their Ph.D. The academic stuff comes much easier to me than the craftsmanship.

:)

-Darren
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Not slamming PhD's at all, Darren, if they are good at what they do and don't expect kowtow simply because they have paper. ;) You and I have had this conversation, and both laughed that there are plenty of PhD "Pinheaded Dummies" from "big name" universities and all the right post-doc advisors who can't find their own ass with both hands and the roadmap of their chosen profession once they get out into the real world and have to prove themselves.

I've worked with many brilliant PhD's who were normal "good people" and they have my utter respect, but not for the degree. That was just the driver's license. I admired their skilled driving.

You should be finishing soon? Are you writing your thesis yet?
 
fitzo said:
...I've worked with many brilliant PhD's who were normal "good people" and they have my utter respect, but not for the degree. That was just the driver's license. I admired their skilled driving.
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yep, we're in complete agreement. :)


fitzo said:
...You should be finishing soon?
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Not yet, those couple of years I took off to work on being a full time maker and build up the refractory business set me back some. No regrets though, I had more fun working for myself than I've ever had working for someone else. Kathryn's going to be finished before I am, she's planning to defend her dissertation early this Summer. I guess I'll have to call her Dr. Kathryn then. :D

:)

-Daren
 
Darren Ellis said:
Not yet, those couple of years I took off to work on being a full time maker and build up the refractory business set me back some. No regrets though, I had more fun working for myself than I've ever had working for someone else. Kathryn's going to be finished before I am, she's planning to defend her dissertation early this Summer. I guess I'll have to call her Dr. Kathryn then. :D

:)

-Daren
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I've always been glad you went back, Darren. I recall those conversations we had regarding that. There shouldn't be any regrets, for it has been a cool journey so far.... :) And your not even middle-aged yet! :D

I am happy to hear Kathryn will fulfill her goals in the summer. It has been a sometimes rocky road because of the health issues so it is wonderful she maintained her path. :thumbup:
 
Fitzo, Mat, Darren, Nick, Chris and a few others I may be forgetting who has it together here, consider this a certificate good for one drink the next time we meet. Probably 2 for my friend Fitzo, it can also be tea, coffee or soda if you like :thumbup: :)
 
Not knocking PhDs at all, if they can walk the walk and if they realize that they aren't infallible just because they have some extra paper. Personally I have a great respect for those that can put up with the establishment of organized learning. It's never been my thing. That said, I'm about to go back and get a degree. It's solely for the alphabet soup factor, but I need that check box to continue forward in my career...

-d
 
In my experience most PhD’s are very intelligent, but socially retarded. About the only thing they can do with their degrees is teach other geeks. My basis for this assessment is having an uncle with a PhD in physics, an aunt-in-law with a PhD in paleo-botany, and an uncle-in-law with a PhD in some type of paleo-biology (his specialty was crinoids - dead starfish). They are all college professors, very smart, and all very weird. Fortunately, none are blood relatives. Then there is my youngest brother who has a PhD in bio-medical engineering. At least he has a real job and can act normal. At least until you get him around some other geeks, then he starts babbling too. :rolleyes:
 
I spent six years in a PhD program in Geology and quit just short of finishing due to what might be called a copulation of circumstance-to give the short version. I definitely am weird on certain topics.

During my internment I taught geology courses and had to teach some basic chemistry. My introduction was to ask how many students could add and subtract up to 4. If you can do this you can understand basic crystal chemistry, including metallic bonds.
 
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