Miners axe, rafting axe, construction axe

garry3 said:
images
Click to expand...

It took, like, 5 minutes to do. It was just tracing the heads and then using a few alignment and scaling tools in the program I used, and snapping the screenshots. So...yes. Yes really. If someone's going to demand that I look at the pictures when I definitely was looking at them, doing this clearly illustrates what it is that my eyes are seeing.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
It took, like, 5 minutes to do. It was just tracing the heads and then using a few alignment and scaling tools in the program I used, and snapping the screenshots. So...yes. Yes really. If someone's going to demand that I look at the pictures when I definitely was looking at them, doing this clearly illustrates what it is that my eyes are seeing.
Click to expand...
Carry on....
 
The poll of the new rafter does not have a square corner. Look at the first three pics in my post above. Actually, don't bother. You’ll see whatever you want to see.
 
Right I see the poll was being facetious.Would think council is small enough to cater to different markets and the rafting pattern seems to be a western standard I can believe they make it for baileys.Regardless I have dealt with them before and their customer service is great if you don’t like what ya get they try and make you happy.
 
Square_peg said:
The poll of the new rafter does not have a square corner. Look at the first three pics in my post above. Actually, don't bother. You’ll see whatever you want to see.
Click to expand...

The profile forms are pretty clearly different to me, but I'll let folks draw their own conclusions. If they were clearly defined facets that'd be considerably more persuasive, but even then it's not a hardened poll and the form is much closer to the other Dayton example. That would be more of an argument for "it's its own thing" than "it's a rafting pattern!" to me. But I don't think that anything I say will change your mind, so I'm bowing out.
 
Thanks to Steve Tall for posting this link to a Wayback Machine copy of Council's website.

Steve Tall said:
Took a trip on the Wayback Machine, to 2005 when Council Tool made these axes (now discontinued):


Cedar Pattern -- single bit, and double bit cruiser (2.5# head on 28" handle)

Cedar Pattern
The Cedar style is available in single or double bit and features an extra-wide cutting face. Slightly rounded poll.

25-2cr.jpg


25-2CA.JPG




Rafting Axe -- 4# head on 20" and 28" handles; 5# head on 28" and 36" handles

Rafting Pattern
Single bit rafting axes feature wider polls with a generous radius. They are used to limb and drive chain saw wedges.

RaftingAxe.jpg




"El Lobo" -- 1.75# head on 18" handle

El Lobo Pattern
Distinctive camping/sport axe in Hudson Bay pattern. The single bit design has extra-large cutting face. Flat poll for driving wood stakes. Polished black finish.

17el18.jpg




Council's 2005 catalog
[color photos are from Council's 2006 catalog.]
Click to expand...

Council did indeed market this pattern as a 5 lb. Rafting axe. Apparently they never destroyed the dies because my new one is clearly stamped 2019.

Council%205lb%20Rafting%20axe.jpg


Another link from Steve.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060320101045/http://www.counciltool.com/category.asp?cat=AW&page=4
 
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Square_peg said:
Thanks to Steve Tall for posting this link to a Wayback Machine copy of Council's website.



Council did indeed market this pattern as a 5 lb. Rafting axe. Apparently they never destroyed the dies because my new one is clearly stamped 2019.

Council%205lb%20Rafting%20axe.jpg


Another link from Steve.

https://web.archive.org/web/20060320101045/http://www.counciltool.com/category.asp?cat=AW&page=4
Click to expand...

Here are some Council Tool 5 lb Dayton axe pics from the web.

Amazon, with 28" nominal handle length:

https://www.amazon.com/Council-Tool-Dayton-Straight-50DR28S/dp/B00A3OJ5K4

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/314eiYlijuL._AC_.jpg


Tiger supplies with 36" handle:

https://www.tigersupplies.com/Produ...MIodalsYD85gIVBmKGCh3z9wQvEAQYAiABEgJRSPD_BwE

https://image.tigersupplies.com/Products/LargeImages/CT50DR36S.jpg

SMKW:

https://www.smkw.com/council-tool-36-dayton-model-axe-with-5lb-head

Logging Supply:

https://www.loggingsupply.com/products/council-5-28-fallers-axe

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2...1b-948c-5c1ceff3c211_480x480.jpg?v=1505322384


Square_peg, I think your axe is within the variation Council tool Dayton axes have after they grind them. They vary a lot.
E.g. my 6 lb Firefighter's axe loks different than yours.
 
Also, please compare the Woodland Pro and the Council Dayton the two axes on the Bailey's website:

https://www.baileysonline.com/woodl...s-with-28-hickory-handle-wp-1028-wp-1028.html


Top quality fallers axe from WoodlandPRO. This axe is specifically designed by Bailey's for logging and timberfalling duties. The Dayton style head is perfect for cleaning out undercuts and the 5 lb square back head will drive wedges with power. We outfit this axe with a straight 28" American Hickory handle, which is short enough to carry easily in the woods, but long enough to give you substantial swinging power. The axe head is drop forged and tempered to Rc 48-55 which exceeds ANSI standards, and painted with red enamel and clear lacquer to deter rust. Hickory handle is dried below 10% moisture content during installation to minimize shrinkage and loosening.

vs.

https://www.baileysonline.com/counc...-with-28-straight-handle-50dr28s-50dr28s.html

They look very similar.
 
Square_peg said:
Christopher at Bailey's was correct. This is a rafting axe not a Dayton. It came today. 5 lb. rafting axe for $40!!!
The poll and eye are impressive. Long thick poll and massive eye walls - obviously stouter than the 6 lb. Council Dayton flathead fire axe.

Baileys%205.jpg


I'm pleased. I'm keeping it. I'll test the poll later. I expect it won't be hardened.
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Square_peg, I see your point.
The eye and the rounding of the poll is not found on the typical Dayton pattern.
I am not sure if the die is that of their discontinued Rafting Axe or it was just a Dayton die and they followed up with a different grind per Bailey's specs.
Whatever the case, this is not a typical Dayton, nor a typical rafting axe.
I like Old Axeman's suggestion.

At the end it does not matter how this axe is classified.
All what it counts is that it seems to be a fine axe and you like it. :):thumbsup:
 
littleknife said:
Here are some Council Tool 5 lb Dayton axe pics from the web.
Click to expand...

42Blades has pointed out that Council and some resellers may not have updated the pics for some of their axes and that Council now substitutes their Dayton pattern for the rafting pattern in axes they market directly, e.g. their miners axe which used to be offered in the rafting pattern but is now sold in a Dayton pattern that does not have the pronounced upturn of the toe.
http://counciltool.com/shop/dayton-...axe-dayton-pattern-26-straight-wooden-handle/

I suggest that with any reseller/re-brander of Council products that you verify the actual pattern you will receive before you place an order. Bailey's has apparently contracted Council to produce their old rafting pattern.
 
littleknife said:
Also, please compare the Woodland Pro and the Council Dayton the two axes on the Bailey's website:

https://www.baileysonline.com/woodl...s-with-28-hickory-handle-wp-1028-wp-1028.html


Top quality fallers axe from WoodlandPRO. This axe is specifically designed by Bailey's for logging and timberfalling duties. The Dayton style head is perfect for cleaning out undercuts and the 5 lb square back head will drive wedges with power. We outfit this axe with a straight 28" American Hickory handle, which is short enough to carry easily in the woods, but long enough to give you substantial swinging power. The axe head is drop forged and tempered to Rc 48-55 which exceeds ANSI standards, and painted with red enamel and clear lacquer to deter rust. Hickory handle is dried below 10% moisture content during installation to minimize shrinkage and loosening.

vs.

https://www.baileysonline.com/counc...-with-28-straight-handle-50dr28s-50dr28s.html

They look very similar.
Click to expand...
I pulled up both pages and they are the same axe. Even the handle grain is the same. The "Woodland Pro" is probably just a 2nd grade Council axe, which would be why they are using the same photo as Council but with a Woodland label on it.
 
Square_peg said:
42Blades has pointed out that Council and some resellers may not have updated the pics for some of their axes and that Council now substitutes their Dayton pattern for the rafting pattern in axes they market directly, e.g. their miners axe which used to be offered in the rafting pattern but is now sold in a Dayton pattern that does not have the pronounced upturn of the toe.
http://counciltool.com/shop/dayton-...axe-dayton-pattern-26-straight-wooden-handle/

I suggest that with any reseller/re-brander of Council products that you verify the actual pattern you will receive before you place an order. Bailey's has apparently contracted Council to produce their old rafting pattern.
Click to expand...

Only popping back in to point out that I didn't say that. I said that Council uses the same stock image for multiple sizes of the Dayton pattern head, and so you can't compare the Bailey's images against the stock image Council uses for the 5lb Dayton on their website because it's not really a photograph of a 5lb Dayton, but one of the other head weights, and they use that same picture for all the base-line large, curved-handle Daytons instead of photographing each individual model. The 5lb model of the Dayton is the same head in all cases. That is to say, I've been informed by Council that the axes carried by Baileys are using heads struck from the 5lb Dayton dies. That's the shape that they use on the 5lb Dayton model, and would therefore be the head you'd receive regardless of what handle length/style you ordered paired with that head weight, because that's just their 5lb Dayton head. It's altered slightly from the form used for the 4lb or 6lb Dayton to reflect the needs of their market, but is nevertheless not true to form nor specification for a rafting pattern, and would be best considered a "modified" or variant version of the Dayton pattern, just within the same manufacturer rather than the variation in form commonly seen between different manufacturers of the same axe pattern. My contact at Council specifically stated that that model Bailey's is carrying is the #50DR28S 5lb Dayton.

I hope that clears up what I was asserting. And what I wasn't. :)
 
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