Minimalistic long-term/indefinate wilderness living

You can start a fire with a concave mirror, but when I made the comments in the above I was thinking of a lens which I forgot to add to the note about the mirror. The lens also allows close up inspection of your body (or others) which can be very valuable for many medical problems.

-Cliff
 
I read most of everyones post, forgive me if I repeat any suggestions.

alot of people seem to be forgetting about location. Carl's chosen location was in a cold area in winter. There are all kinds of places that don't get extreme cold.

but as carl stressed tuning to your environment is essential. take an eskimo and bring him to a desert and he would probably die. hey the great nannook of the north ended up starving to death. it can happen to the best of us. but at least we try our hardest.


great info on this thread.

chris
 
Originally posted by chrisaloia
I read most of everyones post, forgive me if I repeat any suggestions.

alot of people seem to be forgetting about location. Carl's chosen location was in a cold area in winter. There are all kinds of places that don't get extreme cold.

but as carl stressed tuning to your environment is essential. take an eskimo and bring him to a desert and he would probably die. hey the great nannook of the north ended up starving to death. it can happen to the best of us. but at least we try our hardest.


great info on this thread.

chris
Click to expand...

That's a very good point to keep in mind.
 
It always amazes me how we forget what we know- even what we know well. After doing some reflection, I've realized- perhaps come to terms with- one big significant difference between living in civilization and living in the wilds. The difference of which I speak is INDIFFERENCE- specifically, everything there is indifferent to your struggle. Succeed or fail, it does not care.

We who exist daily in a rewards-based environment and plan to enter that world need to consider the impact of this indifference. We cannot pack into our "kit" a large dose of attaboys to be taken to sustain our spirits. That needs to come from within. In some respects, this <Minimalistic Long-term Wilderness Survival> becomes a high-stakes competition with yourself. When you are at your best, you are not cold, not thirsty, not hungry, not in pain, not sick, and nothing around you cares. You are not "winning", you have merely prevailed for the moment. You will not always be at your best. And when you are not, nothing around you will care.

What brought this to mind (with such clarity that it is almost startling) was re-reading this thread while recalling as best as I could, the realities of that sojourn. Here, there are folks that care. That feels good- in fact it feels great. It would have been nice to feel this then. It would have gone a long way toward making the entire thing so much more worth doing. So what is my point?

Long-term wilderness survival is not an extended camping trip. In defference to every comment in this thread, it should be considered a kind of banishment to a world with which we are not familiar even though we feel comfortable there in other circumstances. The contents of your "kit" will matter, but it may not matter nearly as much as who you are and if you are at peace with your reasons for going.

Thanks for all of the kind words. Good Luck.
-carl
 
dart, alot of people including myself think of primitive living as an escape route. part of what fules my desire to learn as much as I can, is if things ever get really bad, financial to chaos to extreme goverment I can retreat to the wilderness.

I doubt I will go into the woods but I love to have the option, it is empowering. It helps keep me honest.
 
dartanyon-
Great question! We may not be herd animals, but we sure as hell are pack animals. The words "clan" or "tribe" (and a few others) were invented to describe the groups to which we belong(ed). However that has been somewhat socialized out of us. What I mean by that is that we seem to have gradually lost the need to "tribe" and gained a certain sense of independence. I suggest that is only valid as long as everything remains status-quo. When the SHTF many will try it alone only to discover we need each-other.

Perhaps therein lies the problem- how does one select his "tribe"? I don't know about you, but I want a tribe of others equally skilled at the task at hand. They need to be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Our own military has the daunting task of welding individuals into teams, and that ain't easy.

Perhaps the notion to "go it alone" is instinctive. Perhaps we don't think we can find others (quickly, easily) who will join us without becoming part of the problem.

Chrisaloia-
Empowering, yes ...until you walk the walk. I am not suggesting you have not, I am suggesting that my own process now includes careful consideration of my team. They are few, but I feel they are necessary. We share the vision that success will come from our combined skills- not from individual skills- yet we each continue to hone our individual skills. This is truly empowering!
-carl
 
OK then ... the ultimate test ...... is to do the test.

Empowering, yes ...until you walk the walk.
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WE ... (I mean this in context to fellow survival enthusiasts) ... want to be able to survive at the mercy of our land.

So then, how far are YOU willing to go??

Deny yourself the collective knowledge of mankind to this date and survive with nothing but the skin on your back

OR

Survive with the collective knowledge of technology and the input from this forum?

Whats it going to be ....... ?

Death from a mozzie bite ........ ?

Chris - The escape ...... OH yeah ... I believe in it .... sincerely,

Carl - To acknowledge the presence of fellow man and use the combined strength as one ... I'm all for it ..... sincerely.

To summerise my view on what I consider as "the ultimate challenge" .... I hope that I am prepared and am lucky enough to share my experience with my neighbour.
 
OK, so what has been learned in the gap between this discussion in May, 2003 and now? Are there some who have resolved to "walk the walk" and if so, please enlighten the rest of us with an outcome. We wish to learn. This is a sincere question.
-carl
 
really all you need is knowledge. But to be realistic a good size blade, cordage, Ferro rod and this is just to make it easy
 
as Pict pointed out, no group of folks choose primitive tools and kit when a better alternative is available. I never did gather how long the OP wanted to play cave man. Week? Month? Year? Rest of his life?

Not much chance of ever having to use those primitive skills unless you just want to play with doing so. I am still not sure what 'going back to nature' proves, one way or the other.
 
Lets just say that food is difficult unless you happen to be lucky. You will be burning more than 2000cal per day, easily, and a decent portion needs to not come from hunted meat. Preparing wild plants that are starch sources is usually very difficult. With the luxury of a modern kitchen, I am still taken back by the effort needed to render a few thousand calories worth of acorn flour or similar items edible. And yet, it was a staple for many native american tribes. The ability to specialize and work as a community is key, I think, to the success of humans. You will be hard pressed to do everything yourself, especially if you are simply "tossed into the woods."
 
Carl Theile said:
OK, so what has been learned in the gap between this discussion in May, 2003 and now? Are there some who have resolved to "walk the walk" and if so, please enlighten the rest of us with an outcome. We wish to learn. This is a sincere question.
-carl
Click to expand...
What can be learned? Hmmmm... How about stop bumping ancient threads? It would have been better to just start a new thread with a link to this one.
 
cramsey3006 said:
Wow, an 8 year old thread.... One of the oldest I've seen in a while. :rolleyes::eek:
Click to expand...

Old, but any less relevent than it was then? I do what I do because it challenges me. I do it because incidents like the tsunami in Japan happen and infrastructures crumble, for a time. Given the economical state of the US (and other countries affected by our ...foibles) I would guess that self-sufficiency might notch up a bit in our priorities. what say you?
-carl
 
Wow, what an old thread... I have posted the list below before...

The following is a Primitive Skills Checklist from an article entitled "Going Wild – Organizing a Primitive Living Experiment" by Alice Tulloch in the Fall 2007 edition of the Society of Primitive Technology’s Bulletin of Primitive Technology.

Per the article, it is for discussion purposes only and it is not intended for one person to have every skill mentioned. Nor is it supposed to be a complete list. A person would bring a set of skills to the tribe and hopefully the tribe could meet its goals.

Social Skills
• Ability to work in a team, for the common good
• Ability to receive criticism and to effectively offer constructive criticism
• Desire to work harder than others, and take the initiative to get things done for the common good
• Ability to maintain a positive attitude
• Knowledge of primitive games, fun, music and celebrations

Travel
• Ability to hike solo over unfamiliar terrain without getting lost
• Ability to guide others, physically and verbally, to a location unknown to others
• Ability to read the landscape to anticipate the easiest route of travel, and the location of water, game, plants and useful materials
• Knowledge of safe stream crossings, snow crossings and rough terrain travel
• Knowledge of long distance travel strategies and the economic calendar of the area
• Good physical condition, moderate body fat, tough feet
• Ability to hike 5-15 miles per day with a 30-lb. pack

Fire
• Consistently started fire by friction using a variety of materials
• Made a successful friction fire set from materials on-site using stone age tools
• Consistently made friction fire in the rain, snow and dark
• Experience using fire for cooking with pottery, stone boiling and pit bake
• Experience banking fire or other methods to maintain coals overnight
• Carrier fire using a long match from one camp to another
• Used fire to bend wood
• Used fire to coal-burn a container

Shelter
• Made a nearly waterproof wickiup, lean-to and debris hut and slept in them
• Made a coal bed and slept on it
• Slept in a primitive shelter using only natural, local bedding and stone age gear
• Made a primitive shelter in the rain or snow and slept in it
• Made a woven or sewn tule or cattail mat

Food (See also next two categories)
• Has lived completely off the land for one week
• Ditto, in each of the four seasons in your area
• Proficiency with a variety of food storage techniques and pest controls, including smoking, drying, rendering, granaries, and caches

Plants
• Has a thorough knowledge of plant families and their characteristics
• Has a thorough knowledge of original people’s plant uses, harvesting, processing, and storage methods in the area
• Has a thorough knowledge of medicinal plants and their uses in the area

Trapping, Fishing, and Hunting
• Has a thorough knowledge of the habitats and habits of the fish and wildlife in the area. Has an understanding of sustainable harvesting
• Has skill in reading animal signs and tracks
• Has captured animals with primitive deadfalls, snares and traps
• Can construct 4 kinds of triggers on site using stone tools
• Can construct 2 kinds of snares on site using stone tools
• Has caught fish using primitive line and lure, spear, fish trap and/or gill net
• Knowledge of stalking and skill hunting techniques
• Harvested a big game animal with stone age equipment
• Made and is proficient with primitive bow and arrow, atlatl and dart, and throwing stick
• Butchered and skinned an animal with stone tools

Clothing
• Made buckskin using only stone age tools and brains of the animal
• Made a complete set of buckskin clothing including shirt/dress, leggings/skirt and moccasins
• Sewn buckskin with only stone age tools and materials
• Tanned fur-bearing animal and made garment from the fur
• Knowledge of rawhide processing and construction methods
• Knowledge of bark tanning process
• Made clothing out of plant fiber (examples: tumpline, sagebrush sandals, cedar bark blanket)
• Made and used winter footwear in wet or snowy weather. Knowledge of greased or insulated footwear
• Knowledge of clothing, equipment and methods to deal with cold and rainy conditions

Basketry and Cordage
• Made baskets from a variety of materials and techniques including a burden basket and water-tight basket (without pitch and sealant0
• Made baskets sealed with pitch or other sealant
• Knowledge of netting techniques
• Knowledge of stone boiling in a basket
• Made cordage from a variety of materials and techniques
• Made rope from many strands braided and multi-plied

Pottery
• Made a fired pot holding 1 gallon from wild harvested clay
• Knowledge of cooking with pottery on a fire

Knapping
• Competency in basic spalling, percussion and pressure flaking, pecking and hafting
• Made uniform thin, straight blades, 5 inches or longer, using stone age tools (no copper)
• Made and proficient in use of scrapers, burins and drills
• Made and proficient in use of stone axe
• Knowledge of heat treating stone
• Made tools from a variety of stone
• Knowledge of useful stone materials in the area

Bone and Antler Tools
• Made bone and antler tools with stone age equipment, including fish hooks, spears, awls, needles
• Used bone or antler for wedges, cutting, stabbing, sawing, pounding and knapping

Woodsmanship
• Knowledge of security measures regarding wolves, bears, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, scorpions, etc
• Awareness of weather changes and patterns
• Awareness of wildland fire behavior and safety measures
• Has developed their intuition and woods savvy
• Awareness of changes in natural flow (bird and bug chatter, wind direction, etc)
• Knowledge of collection, preparation and use of pitch and glues, mineral pigments
• Knowledge of useful knots including fisherman’s, bowline, square, clove hitch, tauntline, and stopper knots
• Knowledge of lashing and splicing
• Knowledge of telling time by the sun and stars

Healthcare
• Knowledge of primitive hygiene concerns, preventative measures and remedies
• Thorough knowledge of backcountry first aid, CPR and evacuation methods
• Knowledge of infectious diseases, adverse syndromes, hypothermia, parasites and poisonous plants that occur in the area; preventative measures and modern treatment
• Knowledge of how a wild diet and primitive activities impact nutritional needs
 
More food for thought for those that want to go minimalist...

What is Bushcraft? What do we really need?

“The more you know, the less you need.” For many, this is the essence of bushcraft.

Looking at it another way, you could say… “Doing more with less.”

We ALL have our own picture of bushcraft in our mind based on what WE KNOW at that moment and our skill level. As an example, for the person that normally lights a fire with a match and paper; for them to light it with natural tinder, in their picture, that is bushcraft… they have done something with less. Works for me.

Bushcraft is a journey, your picture will constantly be evolving as you learn and do more with less.

So if you took the “LESS” all the way down to nothing, what do you really NEED? Keep in mind this varies by environment, climate, season, etc.; AND, you also have to back into your skill level, so don’t go crazy and walk off into the wilderness naked. But if you did, where do you start in terms of TOOLS to meet your NEEDS?

1. Cutting Tools
2. Cordage
3. Fire

From these three tools you can start to build everything else you “need.” There are a few out there that teach a class, “Abo 101,” that address just these. As a part of this list, I would include “Plant Practicality.” Cordage and Fire require a practical knowledge of plants. This doesn’t necessarily mean being able to identify a plant, but having a practical knowledge of the plant properties that can make cordage and fire.

Here is a little more on each…

Cutting Tools ~ man was not born with Fang or Claw. When one of our ancestors accidentally cut himself with a rock for the first time and said “OW!” he realized the potential he could do in piercing things and separating matter. That was the name of the first knife by the way, it was called the “ow.” ;-) Cutting tools also include things that abrade, scrape, and grind. And it is not just stone, “cutting” tools can be bone and even wood. Good rock seems to be the most limited resource in the areas I have traveled. It can be tens of miles in one direction before you find an area with rock sharp enough to slice. This is why a knife (or axe) is a most critical tool. Nonetheless, every bushcrafter should know how to make a sharp edge from rock should they lose their knife. This is not a difficult thing once someone shows you how to do it the first time. Worse comes worse, bash some rocks and let the chips fall where they may.

Cordage ~ before the nail was invented, man’s world was held together by cordage. Its uses, like duct tape today, are limitless, here are few; fire making, shelter, traps, snares, clothing, footwear, fishing line, bow stings, tool construction, crafts, carrying items, etc. Knowing how to make cordage from plants, animals and manmade materials is a valuable skill. That includes hides, sinew, inner tree bark, woody stalks, leaves, grasses, rootlets, root bark, vine, and wood fiber.

Fire ~ what can you say… it is one of the sacred elements. Fire is woven through bushcraft in so many ways it seems we are always trying to master it, no matter what our skill level. Knowing how to make primitive fire should be a top priority for the bushcrafter. And fire is just as important to modern man… he just doesn’t realize it because it comes through a copper wire and he doesn’t see the flames under the hood. How soon people will learn if the lights ever go out. Below is a list from stoneageskills.com of some fire uses for us…

Heat/Flame
- straighten spindles and shafts
- warmth
- open pine cones to access seeds
- drying
- forcing animals into a preferred direction (hunting)
- modifying vegetation landscape (farming, coppicing)
- rendering food palatable/digestible
- felling trees
- preserving wood by charring (fungus/insect repellent)
- coal-burning containers
- water purification
- cauterizing wounds
- heating rocks for stone-boiling and sweat lodge
- removing seed chaff/thorns
- firing pottery
- modifying wood, stone and bone for use as tools/handles
- soften materials to bend and to make easier to modify with tools
- scarification tattoos
- to lure fish at night
- reducing trash
- hardening the points wooden tools/weapons
- melting hardened substances for use

Smoke
- communication at distance
- waterproofing tanned hides and pottery
- food preservation
- to conceal scent
- a carrier for inhalant medicines
- repel insects
- subdue insects (to get at larvae/honey)
- food preserver

Ash/Char/Soot
- charcoal for easier future fire-building
- mineral paint
- medicine
- to write with
- salt
- sunscreen
- toothpaste
- slipping hair from hides
- deodorizer

Light
- seeing in the dark
- communication at distance
- keeping animals out of camp
- psychological security

I call this post a draft as I am sure it can be improved upon as well as everyone has their own ‘take’ on things. So please feel free to use it as you see fit. Repost it with your take, make it better, and hit the things I missed.

Will end it on this note from me… Knowing how to make cutting tools, cordage, primitive fire, and a basic understanding of plant properties is the strongest part of my survival kit.
 
pict said:
I think the best way to evaluate a minimalist kit like this is to balance it against your actual skill level in a field test. Go out for a week or two into a wilderness area and see how well you fare. A one week fast won't kill you but you will certainly know how practical your skills and kit are.

I'm of the opinion that most people who are capable of living well in the wilderness with next to nothing have spent their entire lives there. Most of the time their ability to fashion things from their surroundings is an economic consideration and as soon as they have a modern alternative they use it without a second thought.

If you go to any tribe in South America you will find that bic lighters are a hot item, as are firearms, steel knives, cord, aluminum pots, etc. Sure they are experts on primitive skills but wilderness living is hard and time consuming, any corner that can be cut with modern means usually is and what limits their use of modern means is the fact that they are dirt poor. Mac
Click to expand...

This is an excellent and interesting point. I suppose American Indians aquired metal knives/axes/cooking pots/awls just as fast as they could.


I would amend the OP's initial list to get rid of the bow and include a bolt action .22 w/ scope and 1,000 rounds of ammo. Try field shooting at targets with each one, the bow and the rifle. I think you'll discover that the .22 is way more hunting ability than a bow. For most peeps.

For careful hunters that know how to shoot, that's a heap of ammo which could provide years of food, depending on what you wind up shooting. My further suggestion is you have a long barrel on your rifle, and use subsonic ammo. Much harder to pinpoint and locate.
 
never mind, I'm no necromancer.

for all we know the OP has started a colony in the woods somewhere and is doing great.
 
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::smacks forehead:: What a dumbass! I never even paid attention to the date of post. :foot::rolleyes:
Just call me "Duuuuuuuuurp!"
 
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