Minimum gear?

And one that comes up here on the W&SS forum on a fairly regular basis. Those who know me at all remember that I am a proponent of skills over toys. Yes, I have my share of toys and then some. Many of which have never seen use.

But when woodswalking, hunting, etc., I generally believe that for me, less is more. Less carried is less to keep up with, less to lose, less to encumber me and limit my mobility.

I favor a skillset which overcomes the lack of "things". Several times I have given examples of how I've worked around not having a knife when needed, or a rope or string, a cookpot, firemakings, shelter etc.

Yes, modern urbanized man is, for the most part, ill equipped with the most basic skills and the natural tendancy is to make up for it with "stuff", manufactured goods.

My basic kit for short trips is a shoulder bag weighing about four pounds or so including a full pint water flask. But I don't always carry even that. Am I purposely risking my life? I don't think so. I am just comfortable with my environment and my ability to deal with unexpected circumstances.

But I still like toys!

Codger :thumbup:
 
Minimum depends on a lot of factors, notably environnement, season, personal experience, planned activity...

To be honest, you can go through 95% wilderness situations without anything, and for 4 of the 5% remaining situations knowledgeable people have solutions that would require no equipement either, so minimal possible equipement would be nothing...

Starting from there it is all about what risk you are ready to take, and how much "redundancy" in safety you want.

I've always though the "If you don't carry a PSK, ... you're surely going to DIE" people were silly. Yet the "I need nothing" attitude, could easily lead to stupid death, stuff like "if he had had a simple water bottle he would have been capable to make it through it" or "he wouldn't have frozen if had had a simple bic lighter or a single match".

I can remember few years ago a multi-winner in solitary races sailor, who went over board while driving is boat back to port. Didn't have his safety rig on... Have over examples like that. Accidents happen to the best. Experienced people can probably make it without gear through expectionnally bad weather or a broken leg, but having a broken leg AND exceptionnaly bad weather could be a serious problem. Accidents are often result of several combined factors. Sure this is not common, but it still happens... accidentally.

Think also about driving without your safety belt on. Everything is fine as long as you don't have an accident, and sure it is better to focus on how you drive your car and avoir rather than on choosing the best seat belt, but yet you'll want a seat belt the day that accident happens.

As for myself, light equipement is fine with me, I generally try to have "reasonable" equipement with me: in hot sunny weather: water bottle and some headcover, in winter some cold weather clothing and some fire mean... But I am not frantic about it, assuming that having equipement around is generally enough to have some right piece with me at the right moment (cold weather gear can make for lack of fire mean, and vis versa - redundancy principle)...

Edit: couldn't say it better

Ok.... :thumbdn: Not a great idea. Unless of course you are on the local footpath around the park and there are people within earshot. The 4 days I spent hoping someone would find me when I blew my knee out was on a trail I had climbed a dozen times before, an easy warm up trail to get ready for spring......
 
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You make a good point about the OP's question. I wouldn't want anyone to lie in this forum. That would be disingenuous, because people reading here expect posters to be speaking from experience, with a few grains of salt of course. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't think what you said has value. I hope you are not taking my rather argumentative personal style of discourse personally. It is not intended that way.

No, no, I try not to take things personally. Nothing in this thread has offended me in any way. :) I like discussion, although my words may seem a bit strong at times - partly due to me being a non-native English speaker, and partly due to just my personality, as I really like to speak my mind even if it isn't that pretty. ;) As far as I'm concerned, this has been a good thread and a good discussion. Certainly interesting enough for me.


What you are describing is not preparedness, but the skillset needed to make do when you /aren't/ prepared. Being prepared means bringing the stuff with you that you will need. You can certainly build shelter and a fire without tools. (Well, I'll take your word for it that YOU can. I can't.) However, no matter how much experience you have, it will still be much faster WITH tools. Even if you are capable of doing without, if you find yourself lost, cold, and wet due to an accident, you'll be really glad you brought your SAK, 10' of paracord, and a firesteel.

That's where I'll disagree! Skills are preparedness, too. In my opinion, they're the most important type of preparedness. Skills are information, and information is preparation. Let's look at an example.

You have a sales meeting tomorrow at eight. There are some important figures and features of your product that you need to present in the meeting, convincingly, to succeed. You want to prepare yourself for the meeting, because you want to succeed. The question follows now. You have two choices: 1) you can prepare a paper with all the important features and figures written on it and bring that with you, or 2) you can memorize all the important features and figures and store them in your mind instead of a piece of paper. If you choose option 1, the paper, are you prepared for the meeting? If you choose option 2 instead, memorizing all the important data, are you prepared? This is assuming that you don't fail either - you don't lose the paper, and you don't forget what you memorized. The point here is that the paper is a tool that you can choose to take with you, but your memory follows you everywhere, always...

Catch my drift here? If you ask me, you're prepared if you choose 1, and prepared if you choose 2. But, you will look more convincing if you actually remember all that stuff instead of reading it from a paper. You might just do better, too, or have more fun. On the other hand, there's a risk - what if something distracts you and you lose your memory for a second. Stuff happens.

You will need skills even when you have tools. Skills are what you build everything else on. If you don't have skills, you don't have anything. I could give a full store's worth of equipment to a urban teenager that has spent his life on playing video games, never even seeing a forest much less walking in one, and put him in a tough spot. And even with all that gear, he would end up dead, while I, even without the smallest pocket knife in the world, would be just fine most likely in that very same situation. Skills first, gear second. Loading up on gear and ignoring skills is preparation, sure, but for what? For failing, that's what. In some very safe situations gear may do our work for us, but when things go sideways, we will need skill, or we will die. Of course, in some situations, we will need both skills and gear, or we die.

It is true that gear makes skills produce results faster, no matter how skilled you are. That's certainly good.

Preparedness is certainly about need, yes - and that's for every man to evaluate for himself as befits his situation. For my needs on a simple hike or overnight in familiar terrain, practically no gear will be fine. And if it's not, then I guess that will be the end of me, and I had it coming. :D

To use the car seat belt analogy started by Ravaillac: using a seat belt (tool) is something I would do if I was driving 100 km/h along a highway, but it's also something I would not do if I was driving at 15 km/h in my own yard. Different needs in different circumstances.

I partly agree with you on this. However, if you're bringing just the clothes on your back, and you planned for a day hike, what happens if you get lost and/or stranded overnight? A firesteel and a SAK take up much less space and weight than an extra sweater. The name of the game is "what if".

You have to consider the big picture in what ifs. ;) What if you're going somewhere where there's nothing to burn? Ever been in the arctic? There are a lot of places around that have not one tree or brush standing anywhere within a dozen miles... Can't rely on getting a fire going, even if you have a flamethrower. Better to have clothes that enable you to survive without the fire, even and especially when things take an unexpected turn and you end up staying longer than you intended. So, to answer your question... if I planned for a dayhike in familiar terrain, and somehow managed to get lost and would have to stay overnight, then I'd find a nice little spot to sit down in and rest. No big deal if there's no fire. I'm fairly used to sleeping outdoors... It's really quite fun, although not for someone who dislikes ants and things. :D

This is an ad hominem argument, a very common logical fallacy. It has no bearing on our current discussion. Nonetheless, you are correct in your assessment that I don't get out in the bush nearly as much as I would like. However, YOU are just as much a product of the modern age, as is everyone else reading this thread ON THEIR COMPUTER SCREEN. Our ancestors once survived in the wild without even clothing. They would be a far cry from modern humans, though. What is it that elevated modern humanity above that, and made us the dominant species on Earth? Tools! I am not arguing in favor of the Gear-Fu mindset. I acknowledge that I am guilty of it at times, but I'm doing my best to wean myself. Seriously though, regardless of whatever other gear you choose to carry, you need a damned knife in the bush, even if it's a SAK.

Sure, but it's also the truth. ;) And it does have some bearing - it was my way of not so subtly implying that a lot of us humans these days really have a strange outlook towards the natural environment around us, and have grown alien to it. I'm a product of the modern age, true, but also of another, thanks to my parents.

What elevated humans to the dominant species on Earth, you ask, and reply tools. That's close, but it's not quite the truth, obviously. Tools are a result of that which elevated us. They're not the reason. The reason is intelligence! The reason is our minds. You could give a bear all the tools in the world and he wouldn't elevate himself anywhere higher than a tree, because he lacks a human mind. It was the mind that made the tools possible.

What did you expect? I'm a foreign national! ;)

But so am I! :D


Oh, one more thing...

With regard to the debate between Elen and others in this thread, I think its worth mentioning that Finns are often imbued with a very strong fatalism which is quite foreign to Americans (and to me as well, as an Australian). I think its one of the reasons that they produce so many outstanding race car drivers, particularly rally drivers like Rauno Aaltonen, Juha Kankkunen, Tommi Makinen, Marcus Gronholm etc. I haven't been to Finland but I'm told that guys in the countryside can often be seen driving really, really fast on narrow, slippery roads. Like Elen going out with nothing but the clothes on his back, they know its unsafe and they're taking serious risks but their culturally imbued fatalism means that they do it anyway.

I think you may be on to something here. There is a sense of fatalism among many Finns, although not perhaps the hopeless kind of fatalism (that is to say something along the lines of "things go as they've been predestined to go and nothing can change it"). I'd say it's more like "things go as they go and if I can't change them to my liking then I bloody well don't deserve to." To apply this to the present discussion, it does rather well fit my way of thinking about it. I believe I have the skills to do fine, and the skills to evaluate what to bring and where to go. And I believe that if I screw up and bite it, then maybe I deserved that. :D The part about driving fast on slippery, narrow roads is certainly true - quite a number of young Finns die that way every year.
 
If the question is “What is the minimum you absolutely need to survive in the wild?”, I submit for your consideration Hugh Glass. Mauled by a grizzly bear, broken leg, abandoned without rifle, knife, or possibles bag when John Fitzgerald and Jim Bridger ran from an “Arikaree” Indian attack and left him for dead. Glass somehow traveled 200 miles to Fort Kiowa, crawling most of the way.

Gentlemen, this is not a recommendation. Hugh really did it the hard way. It is also the exception that tests the rule, since many mountain men left their bones in the wild. Including, eventually, Hugh Glass. The “Arikaree” got him in the end. But it does offer some perspective on the question, “How much kit does a skilled man absolutely need in the wilderness?”
 
I'd say it's more like "things go as they go and if I can't change them to my liking then I bloody well don't deserve to."

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at. Its a kind of fatalism mixed with self-deprecation, stemming from this strong sense of the importance of taking personal responsibility for one's actions. The example which springs to mind here is the extraordinary but entirely sincere understatement of Marcus Gronholm when he'd won (yet another) rally. The TV reporter would rush up to his car, telling him excitedly that he'd won the rally or set a new world record for a stage, and Gronholm would sort of shrug and say in a flat monotone "Ya, was ok. Could have been better, but, you know, ok." Always laughed to myself when I heard that.
 
Sigh, this debate can (and I am sure will go on and on). I don't disagree with the fact that a skillset is as important as the tool, if you carry it, know how to use it. Primative skills are great to have, to learn and use. So if you what to use the most basic of skills, that mean you don't need to carry the most basic equipment? Hows about you carry it in case it become less about learning skills and more about staying alive, and if you don't happen to need it, great. I can't count how many times I have had a lighter and tinder with me, yet choose to start my fire with a firesteel or a bow. Or had a tent, but made a shelter instead. Or how many times I have made a map of my location by pacing off the distance and direction to points of interest.

Seriously, Elen maybe way ahead of me on the primative skills, but my personal hope is that he doesnt become ant food before his time. Of course he is correct, people did survive before tools, of course they were NOT the people of today, and one of the reasons the tools were invented in the first place was because survival without them was much less likely.

Anyways, the tools never replace skills, and yes, survival forums tend to be a bit gear center, maybe even too much so. (Thou I tend to think it is a good thing that people are always trying to find better ways to do things, better tools for the job, etc). But as Elen said, Preparedness is a critical skill. So is knowing your limitations, and what your skills are. So given that, if you arent prepared to MAKE the tools, carry them.

For me, my time in the outdoors is so few and far between these days, I long to go climbing, hiking again so often but dont get to go half as much as I want. I see no reason to turn that time of enjoyment into a trial of "what can I get by without". Our human intelligence gave us the ability to make tools, and my personal intelligency tells me to carry. :)
 
If you don't mind, I'll just use this thread as an excuse to post my all-time favorite Ten Essentials list.

01 First aid kit: bandanna, iodine, tape
02 Shelter: tarp or poncho plus cord
03 Woolens: cap, gloves, sweater, socks
04 Fire: lighter, ferro-rod, tinder, and kindling
05 Signalling: mirror and whistle
06 Navigation: compass and map
07 Light: flashlight
08 Water: quart pop bottle
09 Knife and hone: folder with saw, ceramic
10 Pot: metal cup or kettle
 
I'm definitely a pavement and electricity kind of guy, but it boggles my mind as an outsider among true outdoorsmen that someone will go into the the woods or wilderness without even a pocketknife of some kind. I don't even go around my house without a knife, much less leave the house. Even if you don't think you'll need it, I don't understand not taking something so small and light that could be so darned useful if you did need it.
 
The bare minimum, huh? Well, I'm not going to count my EDC, which is on me from the time I get up, until I bed down. I'll list it though, just so you get an idea of why I choose my "bare essentials".

Front Right Pocket: Victorinox Farmer, Chapstick

Front Left Pocket: All my keys and-photon style light, metal o-ringed pill fob with 5 jumbo PCBs, Victorinox Classic SD(black), handcuff key, p-38, separated by various split rings in categories and all joined by a carabiner.
Cigarettes also ride in this pocket, but I'm trying to quit...I swear. I've cut down alot, get off my back! :p Besides, cigarettes make good tinder.


Watch Pocket:Zippo

Rear Left Pocket: Oversized bandana

Rear Right Pocket:Wallet that holds the usual, plus, spare keys to certain things, a small ferro rod in the fold from a Doan mag block, fresnel lense, spare flints for the Zippo, and probably some other goodies I've forgot about.

Wrist: Watch with two time zone capability(one analog, one digital)

Right Hip: Glock 22 IWB

That sums up my EDC, since appropriate clothing is pretty much a given.
Having gotten that out of the way, back to the original question. My bare minimum can be summed up in one word: WATER.
Spring, Summer, and early Autumn temps here are triple digits, and the only thing you can reliably find on any given day is dirt and sand. If it's just a day-hike, in familiar territory, this is probably all I'll be carrying.

For overnighters or traversing unfamiliar terrain, I'll add my possibles bag and PSK. The possibles bag would reasonably cover my bases up to and beyond 72 hours. I'll try to get a pic and list of that up here in a bit.

Anything longer than a week and I move up to a full sized internal frame pack with two 2 liter water bladders, a Fiskar's 14'' hatchet, sleeping pad and bag, E-tool, and spare clothing/food.

Edit: Well the wife made a liar out of me on the pics, since she has the camera today. I did find a slightly outdated picture of my small pack though. Not a whole lot has changed really, just the fixed blade and a few upgrades of odds and ends. This should give you a general idea of it. Overall weight at time of picture was 5-6lb. Current weight is probably 4-5lb.

DSC00484.jpg


Contents from top left are as follows:
1QT. Cooking pot with lid
Doan magblock
Bic Lighter*
Golf pencil & paper
Pink Lady Candle
Fatwood
Victorinox Farmer*
Victorinox Ranger
Black Bandana*
Benchmade Mel-Pardue Drop Point Rant(Replaced by a Fallkniven F1*)
Glock 22 with spare 15rd. mag.*
PSK*-the usual suspects; matches, sewing kit, fishing kit, snare wire, cordage, button compass, etc.
Monocular
Mini-MagLite(replaced by a smaller 9 LED light)
FAK*-again, the usual suspects; 2Xlarge compression gauze, 5xAlcoholPrep, 10X assorted bandages, tape, etc.
Glow stick
Work gloves
Spare wool socks
Black Hard Arkansas Stone
Fine diamond stone and coarse stone
Medium X-acto handle and assorted blades
Orange emergency poncho
Orange flagging tape
Signal mirror
15ft. white nylon cord
Brunton baseplate compass*
Space blanket
4 x 1 gallon ZipLoc bags
Clear waterproof stuffsack
50ft. of 650 paracord
100ft. of 550 paracord

Items with an asterisk beside them are either on my person during my trips, or in my PSK, in addition to my EDC. Also on my person are various location or situationally dependent items like maps and such. Everything else stays in the cooking pot inside the bag, or in the stuffsack until needed.



Gautier
 
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Hey Gautier,
You brought up a really good point. Something I rarely, if ever, see on a list of survival items is spare keys. Quickee scenario: you went canoeing for a week and you're parked way back in the boonies. You return to your vehicle and can't find your keys.

In my vehicle, I have a key stashed that only I would be able to find. If I ever found myself in the above situation, I may have to put a rock through the side window, but I won't be stranded.

Doc
 
Good thinking for sure...in my edc bag I keep spare keys for my truck, my car, my house, my tool box, my bike lock, my motorbike, and my gun safe. After all that's a pretty easy thing to lose and man, no keys is no fun!
 
In the desert I bring a full water bladder, and a separate liter of water.


For general day hikes, I bring water, signal mirror, lighter, SAK and whistle, dental floss, duct tape,Photon type flashlight, note book and pen.
 
Bear, yep that'd be the one. For 16.99 it was a steal in my opinion, small enough that I don't mind carrying it, yet big enough to carry all my essentials with some room to spare.
The key thing is just another part of my redundancy, I also have a key stashed for the vehicle for similar scenarios, Doc. Wife has locked the keys out of both vehicles at least once.


Gautier
 
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