I'm not getting into this further as i'm not looking to hijack the OP's thread....that seems to be your forte....and that was my point. You're not a mod, you're not entitled to answers for every question you might ask. This isn't trolling....it is pointing out the patently obvious.
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Moderators please remove malicious baseless and unfair negative feedback
- Thread starter victor14
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Ok I will explain myself again to the jury.
these threads and bashing seem to get carried away and people always need to chime in with their god fearing opinions. I did not start this thread. I went the correct route and complained about the buyers negative rating towards me by reporting it by clicking the red triangle.
Sellers/Selling -
1.Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item, have it in your possession and clearly list the selling price. There is no "testing the waters" or "gauge buyer interest".I was a 100% honest. The Knife was new never used or carried. I provided the buyer with my original receipt from Knives ship fee. Knife was taken out of my safe to photograph and ship to the buyer.
2.No sales for third parties. If your "friend" wants an item sold, they must create their own account and list it themselves.
Not a third party sale. This knife was purchased by me and sold by me.
3.Activate/Enable your ability to receive email and private messaging, from members, moderators, and administrators; you must also display your correct membership level.
This was done
4.When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions. If you have a problem being honest, upfront, and are unable to honor your word then you do not belong here.
I was honest. I provided pictures. The only know issue with the Northwoods Presidential knives is the blade rub due to tight tolerances. Semper Fidelis.
5.Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice for buyers to see what they are going to get. Threads with pictures sell items faster than those without. Keep in mind, gigantic photos take forever to load for some people and can be an eyesore, resizing to a reasonable size is advised
I provided photos of the knife. See the sale page: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...fe-Clean-out!!!-S-amp-M-Northwoods-Knives-GEC
6.Be specific with all details of payment. There is no eBay style auctioning allowed. If you want to entertain trade offers, say so in your sales thread (For Sale Or Trade); it is allowed.
I was specific. Yes I offered buyers to pay via friend/family if they wanted to avoid the fees, otherwise I clearly state add the 3.5%
7.If you have a Gold or higher membership you may list currently active threads in your signature space. Please, no giant billboards and no links to eBay.
This one doesn't apply to my sale
8.Consolidate your threads. If you have multiple knives to sell, post them in a single thread. Or you can do different threads on different days. You are only allowed 1 sales thread, per day, per forum. Let's keep it fair for everyone.
N/A
9.You must wait 14 days (2 weeks) to relist an item for the second time. So once you list an item for sale, that item cannot appear for a second time in a sales thread until 2 weeks have passed from the date of the original thread. Bumping threads or "BTTT" in the sales sections has been disabled due to abuse.
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So those are the rules correct? So what did I do wrong. I am not a business. I am just a guy selling off some of his collection. Does it state that I need to offer a return policy anywhere?
Now if I reference the buyers rules:
Buyers/Buying -
1.Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase the item before offering to do so. If you cannot commit 100% to buying the item, then move along. Be responsible and use your best judgement. Do not create any undue burden on people trying to sell stuff.
The buyer committed. I sold to him as he was the first to want it. I lost out on other sales because I was an honest seller and sold to the first one who replied.
2.Ask any questions needed before the deal is agreed upon, make sure you want the item being sold and that the price is affordable to you.
The only question the buyer asked if it was made by GEC, which I confirmed to him it was.
3.Be prompt with your payment. The seller has the right to determine how they want payment and if they will work with you.
4.Provide an accurate shipping address. Make sure the seller has that shipping address. Open and clear communication via email or Private Messaging is encouraged between the parties involved for every detail of the transaction.
5.Do not post in a person's thread unless you have an implicit interest in buying the item. Posts like, "Nice knife!", "Why is the price so high/low?", "I wish I had funds" are not allowed. This means absolutely no commentary or feedback in someone's sales thread. Seriously, if you stomp on someone's ad, your account can and will be locked. The only exception to this is in the Knife Makers Market areas (if the maker/craftsman requests and welcomes feedback). Save questions and offers for email rather than cluttering the thread.
6.Malicious Buyers will be permanently banned from the forums. Repeatedly flaking on deals and buying items only to turn around and complain is also not a good idea. Don't waste our time.
Seems like this one applies to the buyer...
7.If you must back out of a deal, it is YOUR responsibility to communicate with the other person WHY you are unable to complete the transaction. Make sure this happens BEFORE any money or items have been exchanged. Problems should be attempted to be resolved between the persons involved, before Feedback threads are started.
8.Warning: You as a buyer are responsible for using Paypal as it was intended, according to their Terms of Service. Using the "Gift" option revokes any buyer protection you may have if something goes wrong and makes it easier to get scammed. Be smart and protect yourself, if you use gift and get scammed don't come crying to us about it as you've already been advised.
Ok again to sum it up. I listed as new and provided original receipt from knives ship free.com. Listed as new because it was. I am not sure why I am getting blamed for selling a lie? I have never had this issue before on bladeforums with any other buyers.
No I do not have a return policy...sorry if that makes me dishonest or sketchy, but I am not a business, just a guy selling some of his collection.
When the buyer complained about fit and finish I assured him it was new and I was the original owner. He stated it must be a factory second or third. I assured him it wasn't and sent him the original receipt. I told him to contact Derrick bohn for fit and finish issues. Orginally the buyer did not know who made the presidential and was skeptical if GEC made it. This tells me maybe the buyer didn't know too much about the knife? During the sale I also forwarded him the link to knivesshippfree.com page that describes the Presidential Northwoods line of knives.
The buyer opened up a claim saying the item was not significantly not as described and it was an Unauthorized payment.
Those are both false. This was not an Unauthorized payment, it was agreed upon. And the item was not SNAD, it was described as it new because it was and pictures of all sides where provided and the pictures to expand to see closer details.
So this thread started because I left him negative buyer feedback and he bypassed the correct route to report how he felt about it.
that is my case and I am sure many of you will at me with even more negative views and opinions.
again, for the jury, here is the link where you can see pictures of the Presidential knife:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...fe-Clean-out!!!-S-amp-M-Northwoods-Knives-GEC
these threads and bashing seem to get carried away and people always need to chime in with their god fearing opinions. I did not start this thread. I went the correct route and complained about the buyers negative rating towards me by reporting it by clicking the red triangle.
Sellers/Selling -
1.Be 100% sure that you want to sell the item, have it in your possession and clearly list the selling price. There is no "testing the waters" or "gauge buyer interest".I was a 100% honest. The Knife was new never used or carried. I provided the buyer with my original receipt from Knives ship fee. Knife was taken out of my safe to photograph and ship to the buyer.
2.No sales for third parties. If your "friend" wants an item sold, they must create their own account and list it themselves.
Not a third party sale. This knife was purchased by me and sold by me.
3.Activate/Enable your ability to receive email and private messaging, from members, moderators, and administrators; you must also display your correct membership level.
This was done
4.When describing your items, be honest and provide an accurate & detailed description of the item. Don't forget to mention defects, blemishes, new, used, or other problems. When in doubt, be pessimistic with your descriptions. If you have a problem being honest, upfront, and are unable to honor your word then you do not belong here.
I was honest. I provided pictures. The only know issue with the Northwoods Presidential knives is the blade rub due to tight tolerances. Semper Fidelis.
5.Provide as many photos as possible, in the best lighting possible. It's always nice for buyers to see what they are going to get. Threads with pictures sell items faster than those without. Keep in mind, gigantic photos take forever to load for some people and can be an eyesore, resizing to a reasonable size is advised
I provided photos of the knife. See the sale page: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...fe-Clean-out!!!-S-amp-M-Northwoods-Knives-GEC
6.Be specific with all details of payment. There is no eBay style auctioning allowed. If you want to entertain trade offers, say so in your sales thread (For Sale Or Trade); it is allowed.
I was specific. Yes I offered buyers to pay via friend/family if they wanted to avoid the fees, otherwise I clearly state add the 3.5%
7.If you have a Gold or higher membership you may list currently active threads in your signature space. Please, no giant billboards and no links to eBay.
This one doesn't apply to my sale
8.Consolidate your threads. If you have multiple knives to sell, post them in a single thread. Or you can do different threads on different days. You are only allowed 1 sales thread, per day, per forum. Let's keep it fair for everyone.
N/A
9.You must wait 14 days (2 weeks) to relist an item for the second time. So once you list an item for sale, that item cannot appear for a second time in a sales thread until 2 weeks have passed from the date of the original thread. Bumping threads or "BTTT" in the sales sections has been disabled due to abuse.
N/A
So those are the rules correct? So what did I do wrong. I am not a business. I am just a guy selling off some of his collection. Does it state that I need to offer a return policy anywhere?
Now if I reference the buyers rules:
Buyers/Buying -
1.Be 100% sure that you can financially afford to purchase the item before offering to do so. If you cannot commit 100% to buying the item, then move along. Be responsible and use your best judgement. Do not create any undue burden on people trying to sell stuff.
The buyer committed. I sold to him as he was the first to want it. I lost out on other sales because I was an honest seller and sold to the first one who replied.
2.Ask any questions needed before the deal is agreed upon, make sure you want the item being sold and that the price is affordable to you.
The only question the buyer asked if it was made by GEC, which I confirmed to him it was.
3.Be prompt with your payment. The seller has the right to determine how they want payment and if they will work with you.
4.Provide an accurate shipping address. Make sure the seller has that shipping address. Open and clear communication via email or Private Messaging is encouraged between the parties involved for every detail of the transaction.
5.Do not post in a person's thread unless you have an implicit interest in buying the item. Posts like, "Nice knife!", "Why is the price so high/low?", "I wish I had funds" are not allowed. This means absolutely no commentary or feedback in someone's sales thread. Seriously, if you stomp on someone's ad, your account can and will be locked. The only exception to this is in the Knife Makers Market areas (if the maker/craftsman requests and welcomes feedback). Save questions and offers for email rather than cluttering the thread.
6.Malicious Buyers will be permanently banned from the forums. Repeatedly flaking on deals and buying items only to turn around and complain is also not a good idea. Don't waste our time.
Seems like this one applies to the buyer...
7.If you must back out of a deal, it is YOUR responsibility to communicate with the other person WHY you are unable to complete the transaction. Make sure this happens BEFORE any money or items have been exchanged. Problems should be attempted to be resolved between the persons involved, before Feedback threads are started.
8.Warning: You as a buyer are responsible for using Paypal as it was intended, according to their Terms of Service. Using the "Gift" option revokes any buyer protection you may have if something goes wrong and makes it easier to get scammed. Be smart and protect yourself, if you use gift and get scammed don't come crying to us about it as you've already been advised.
Ok again to sum it up. I listed as new and provided original receipt from knives ship free.com. Listed as new because it was. I am not sure why I am getting blamed for selling a lie? I have never had this issue before on bladeforums with any other buyers.
No I do not have a return policy...sorry if that makes me dishonest or sketchy, but I am not a business, just a guy selling some of his collection.
When the buyer complained about fit and finish I assured him it was new and I was the original owner. He stated it must be a factory second or third. I assured him it wasn't and sent him the original receipt. I told him to contact Derrick bohn for fit and finish issues. Orginally the buyer did not know who made the presidential and was skeptical if GEC made it. This tells me maybe the buyer didn't know too much about the knife? During the sale I also forwarded him the link to knivesshippfree.com page that describes the Presidential Northwoods line of knives.
The buyer opened up a claim saying the item was not significantly not as described and it was an Unauthorized payment.
Those are both false. This was not an Unauthorized payment, it was agreed upon. And the item was not SNAD, it was described as it new because it was and pictures of all sides where provided and the pictures to expand to see closer details.
So this thread started because I left him negative buyer feedback and he bypassed the correct route to report how he felt about it.
that is my case and I am sure many of you will at me with even more negative views and opinions.
again, for the jury, here is the link where you can see pictures of the Presidential knife:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...fe-Clean-out!!!-S-amp-M-Northwoods-Knives-GEC
Think of me however you want but keep my damn family out of it. There is a reason why that stuff is off limits.
And while you are at it maybe post about the subject matter and stop insulting other members. I will not be responding further to you here as it is not worth my time to argue with someone who is willing to drag a man's family into an argument.
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So why not just take the knife back? These situations often make both parties look bad. You are looking worse because the OPs fault in this is mostly procedural. Yours is one that will make people not want to deal with you. Paypal will likely side with the buyer and you will have the knife back anyway but now with this blemish on your record. This is a tight community. The good members do right by each other. That would certainly include taking back an item someone is not happy with. And good people will generally be the bigger person.
Yes a lot of mostly irrelevant verbiage by the seller. No new facts though, just confirmation of everything I already posted.
Nevertheless, this knife unquestionably deserved a description of manufacturing defects as well as scratches (in addition to rubbing blades which is not what I was talking about) which was missing from the for sales thread.
Further and Importantly, if the seller does not have a return policy, as he puts it, isn't it then even more incumbent on him to have a clear, honest and complete description which was indisputably ( seller does not claim these problems were not there when he sold it) missing.
Instead, the only description was "new in tube"
That is clearly MISLEADING.
For pointing this out according to this seller, I am a malicious buyer, I do not know how to respond to such nonsense, or as seller sees it "logic"
small inaccuracies: I did not claim to paypal that it was unauthorized charge, just not as described.
Nevertheless, this knife unquestionably deserved a description of manufacturing defects as well as scratches (in addition to rubbing blades which is not what I was talking about) which was missing from the for sales thread.
Further and Importantly, if the seller does not have a return policy, as he puts it, isn't it then even more incumbent on him to have a clear, honest and complete description which was indisputably ( seller does not claim these problems were not there when he sold it) missing.
Instead, the only description was "new in tube"
That is clearly MISLEADING.
For pointing this out according to this seller, I am a malicious buyer, I do not know how to respond to such nonsense, or as seller sees it "logic"
small inaccuracies: I did not claim to paypal that it was unauthorized charge, just not as described.
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I'm pretty sure we're at a point that people will flame you right or wrong.....just that simple. You can be completely right but lose in the court of public opinion.....had it happen to me more times than I can count. I believe this applies...."no good deed goes unpunished."
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The buyer is unhappy and unsatisfied. Why do you refuse a return and refund? Either you were ignorant of the flaws in the knife, in which case you should accept a return and refund, or you were completely aware of them yet failed to disclose them so you could pass them along to the first willing sap that came along.
Whether or not this particular incident gets resolved satisfactory or not, the question you should be concerned with is will anybody be foolish enough to conduct business with you ever again in the future? Maybe you come out the "victor" in this dispute...what does that get you? Recoup on a ~$100 knife that shouldn't have left the factory? How many knives do you think you'll sell after this, when potential buyers know that you knowingly sell flawed knives and will refuse to accept returns?
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I feel the same way for you accusing me of being a malicious seller, I don't know how to respond to your nonsense as well when I provided all the proof and links and pictures and receipts. I am not trying to trick anyone. And as I stated, I am not a retailer or business, so no...I don't have a return policy in place. This buyer out of the box accused me of selling him a crap knife not as described, when I clearly described it as is, (New) with pictures. As for the unauthorized charge, yes when I track the case you opened it states "The buyer disputed charge for the following reason: Unauthorized Payment.
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Now that you have judged me, you know not to buy from me.
Sorry for the misspelling on my part but I'm siding with you. My point is simply this.....you can do what you think is right and still be wrong based on public opinion.....as I think you have been labeled here.
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Even though it doesn't seem to be stated in the rules, it would be both prudent and appreciated if "no returns" or "all sales final" was stated in the original sales thread if that's the seller's policy.
Good advise. I guess up until this sale I have never had this issue with selling.
Good advise. I guess up until this sale I have never had this issue with selling.
This right here. Unfortunately there are a lot of people, especially new people who will not do their research and ever know of this incident. Many of them start threads here.
:thumbup:
Well, clearly, after reading this whole thread,
(which I actually started in another section to just try to have the mods erase this feedback, only for the mods to move it to this section)
Seller still seems to feel that he was within his rights to sell a knife with problems without disclosing them and then refusing to accept it back even though as pointed out above, he had a secret (unknown to anyone but himself) policy of no returns.
AND THEN to have audacity to leave the buyer a negative feedback for pointing out the issues he failed to disclose.
What a reliable, trustworthy, easy to deal with guy. OH, and not baselessly stubborn at all
(which I actually started in another section to just try to have the mods erase this feedback, only for the mods to move it to this section)
Seller still seems to feel that he was within his rights to sell a knife with problems without disclosing them and then refusing to accept it back even though as pointed out above, he had a secret (unknown to anyone but himself) policy of no returns.
AND THEN to have audacity to leave the buyer a negative feedback for pointing out the issues he failed to disclose.
What a reliable, trustworthy, easy to deal with guy. OH, and not baselessly stubborn at all
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In my opinion, simply describing something as "new" can be just as subjective as the infamous "mint".
If you happen to buy a frame lock new from the dealer that has lock rock, saying it is new is truthful, yet it still does not effectively describe the items actual physical condition.
If you happen to buy a frame lock new from the dealer that has lock rock, saying it is new is truthful, yet it still does not effectively describe the items actual physical condition.
Very true. Simply describing something as "new" is not enough. When I buy stuff with just this description I know I am taking a risk. But this is why we have paypal goods. If something is wrong you can dispute it. This is also why we buy from reputable people and dealers. If something is wrong they make it right. That is clearly not the case here. The seller is not reputable.
It does describe the physical condition, what it does not deacribe is a whole different matter. That would be mechanical condition. Does it function as it should from the manufacturer? Are other models identical to this one guilty of the same mechanical widgets as mine? Is there any recourse sending the item back for repair to the manufacturer? Just some random thoughts regarding that aspect.
For the rest of you. Keep your your opinions relaxed and inline with the rules. Personal attacks, obvious or veiled are not welcome, posting content that is unrelated to the issue at had is not welcome, the people involved should be the ones primarily active in this situation. I understand the temptation to post a tirade on why you would or wouldn't do X,Y, and Z is tempting, but please hold some restraint. Opinions are welcomed, but think before you type. It helps no one and does not add to the ultimate goal, understanding and resolution. The fact here is that these two members issued one another negative feedback, as far as I am concerned it is valid and should stay. Money exchanged hands, the seller appeared and expressed his side of the story as dis the buyer. We should take this as a learning experience to improve our interactions with one another, as well as reflect on how we can do better next time. The time for taking jabs and posting barbed comments is well past necessary.
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