Modern GEC Hybrid Line

Hopefully posting this one won't offend anyone. Maybe the fact that it has a non-serviceable pivot will appease the traditional gods. It is made by Ken Coats and utilizes CPM 154. I would love to see some production knives like this; I think they would sell extremely well.

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AmosPaul said:
Hopefully posting this one won't offend anyone. Maybe the fact that it has a non-serviceable pivot will appease the traditional gods. It is made by Ken Coats and utilizes CPM 154. I would love to see some production knives like this; I think they would sell extremely well.

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Nice knife, but the OP really wants modern scales rather than modern steel, though I don't think he'd be against modern steel. That's how I've read it anyway.
 
Somewhere in this thread or the 2 other threads, he said he wanted both modern steels and handle materials.

His entire premise has holes and inaccuracies. In this thread and the others, a lot of examples were given. In a PM that he sent to me, he said he was not aware of these other options. I think it was more of a "wouldn't it be cool?" type of post. He doesn't really have a plan. If some research and more thought went into it, it may have been received a bit differently.
 
I think it's a shame that there wasn't more of a discussion in this thread. There's a much bigger market for the kind of knife that Staple described than some people would believe. For evidence of this we have the Indian River Jack which flys off the shelves. There are several companies toeing this line by using better steels, Queen comes to mind. Queen is not flourishing on the level of GEC but I don't think it's because there's a lack of demand for traditionals in D2. In fact I think that Queen's survival depends on a large part because of their steel. Hence the validity of Staple's idea that a knife with GEC quality and GEC's elegant designs w/ modern materials would be a real game changer even if it did cost an arm and a leg. If I had my druthers I'd like to the new 83 in satin D2 with polished blue g10 scales and a deep nail notch a la A.G. Russell's lockback barlow for one handed opening.

Moving forward I think that modern and traditional patterns will continue to blend. A lot of people are becoming disillusioned with the absurdity of huge overbuilt flippers and are discovering traditionals. What better time than now to really set the hook in a new customer base by using elegant traditional designs with modern steels (hopefully ones you can still sharpen yourself) and modern handle scales. I think the first production company to do so will take all.
 
Queen has used modern steels in addition to D2. A lot of examples have been given by others but here are a few examples that I gave in one of the other threads.

"GEC and CSC have also used micarta on quite a few patterns--I even have one on preorder. And some Bladeforums dealers still have stock of some of the older runs with micarta handles. ATS-34 and 154CM have been used by Case on some knives like the Bose collaboration knives and other special runs such as Case Bros and Cattaraugus. Queen also used ATS-34 on some Schatt & Morgan knives in the past. Some of those were runs from many years ago and dealers still have new old stock remaining. Knives branded Tuna Valley with ATS-34 and 154CM steel were made by Queen... and GEC made some for them also but I don't recall the steels... probably 440C or 1095. AG Russell has also used modern materials and steels on traditional knives made in the USA and overseas."

I think the success or failure depends on a lot of variables in addition to which materials are used. Some may be good sellers but others sit in inventory for a long time. An entire line of expensive knives sitting in inventory wouldn't be good business.
 
Biggie_Robs said:
Nice knife, but the OP really wants modern scales rather than modern steel, though I don't think he'd be against modern steel. That's how I've read it anyway.
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See, here's a bit of gray area... I think that knife falls into the vein I mentioned. It's not g10, carbon fiber or the like, but it's not quite traditional either. More inspired by. Look at the staggered pins, the swedge on the sheepsfoot and the dramatic contour on the bolsters. I like it and I think it would sell just fine to the right demographic. Despite what Supra might think.
 
supratentorial said:
Queen has used modern steels in addition to D2. A lot of examples have been given by others but here are a few examples that I gave in one of the other threads.

"GEC and CSC have also used micarta on quite a few patterns--I even have one on preorder. And some Bladeforums dealers still have stock of some of the older runs with micarta handles. ATS-34 and 154CM have been used by Case on some knives like the Bose collaboration knives and other special runs such as Case Bros and Cattaraugus. Queen also used ATS-34 on some Schatt & Morgan knives in the past. Some of those were runs from many years ago and dealers still have new old stock remaining. Knives branded Tuna Valley with ATS-34 and 154CM steel were made by Queen... and GEC made some for them also but I don't recall the steels... probably 440C or 1095. AG Russell has also used modern materials and steels on traditional knives made in the USA and overseas."

I think the success or failure depends on a lot of variables in addition to which materials are used. Some may be good sellers but others sit in inventory for a long time. An entire line of expensive knives sitting in inventory wouldn't be good business.
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I don't know where you've gotten the idea that this sort of knife would be super expensive. It might be very expensive for GEC to do a model in m390, but that's because they're not set up for it. If EVERYTHING you make is in "super steel" and carbon fiber then your tooling will account for it.

I'm sure if ZT can produce a knife with bearing pivots, giant slabs of milled carbon fiber and M390 steel and still turn a profit at $250 then the same can be done on a comparatively diminutive saddlehorn.

I also really like the micarta handles from GEC. I have a #92 spear in green and a #42 clip/Spey in maroon which if I were forced to make a choice, I'd have to say is my favorite knife out of my collection.
 
ATwistedStaple said:
See, here's a bit of gray area... I think that knife falls into the vein I mentioned. It's not g10, carbon fiber or the like, but it's not quite traditional either. More inspired by. Look at the staggered pins, the swedge on the sheepsfoot and the dramatic contour on the bolsters. I like it and I think it would sell just fine to the right demographic. Despite what Supra might think.
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You really are all over the place. Good luck in your quest.
 
I own only two GEC knives and both are in 440C. I'm not interested in anything in 1095. I would love it if they had more offerings in ss AND with g10 or even micarta handles, but I won't hold my breath. They seem to be doing just fine catering to the traditional 1095 crowd.
 
The reason why ZT can produce a knife with such high tolerances and 'high speed materials' is because they're funded by a billion dollar mother company "KAI". They have far more backing that GEC does. Not to call GEC a small outfit but in comparison they are to a company like KAI. It would take a while for GEC to set up such knives and materials, retrain and train workers, all why this market you speak is unchartered territory that may not pay out.

The Ken Coats pictured above is traditional tried and true. Ken does do work in g10 or micarta with steels like ats-34 hence everyone recommending custom makers for you to choose from.
 
You could go to Benchmade with your idea, as I suggested, with a business plan showing research and testimonials for the desired product. Ask only for 5% of all sales the first three years, the first of each pattern for your own collection, and full rights to any names given to said products where upon you would recieve another fixed amount each time created name is used. Also, make sure to get a 401, a company car, and stock options, not to mention full insurance and of course five tickets to blade each year for you and your friends.

All kidding aside, you may want to ask in general discussion if those who do carry modern folders would be interested in the traditional pattern if everything else was modern and see how it compares to this thread. It would give you a different target audience.
 
I'm sure nobody means any harm but talking about cheaper versions of a custom knife is sorta disrespectful. And a collaboration between a maker and production knife manufacturer is really a whole different topic. I'm not sure how the makers feel about it but in my opinion it's not really appropriate to discuss without their interest and participation.

I don't want to go further off track with the topic of customs but there's a lot more to a custom knife. And some of those makers are our friends. The best makers have their own style and I wouldn't want to see it imitated unless they're working directly with a manufacturer.

And there are enough examples of production knives with modern materials for us to compare.
 
Im am not certain if you were refering to my post. If so, I meant no disrespect to anyone, especially those who create. I was just remembering the op and how Staple wanted to fill an assumed void of where he thought more people wanted all modern materials but in a traditional pattern.

If you were not refering to my post. Please ignore my explanation :)
 
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Does anyone have model numbers and original retail prices for Case's "exotic steels" knives? Weren't they in the $200-300 range depending on the pattern? I couldn't find them cataloged on the Case website like the limited editions.

Case Bros Bone ATS-34

waynorth said:
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Case G-10 Tru-Sharp

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Chuck Buck/A.G. Russell Signature Knife Pearl 154CM and S30V (BOTH!)

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Canal Street Cutlery Micarta w/ White Fiber Liners 440C

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Canal Street Cutlery Imperial Jade 440C





Canal Street Cutlery Panama White Linen 14-4 CrMo




Canal Street Cutlery Black Canvas 440C





Queen Tuna Valley Stag 154CM




Queen Schatt & Morgan Bone ATS-34




G.Sakai Fieldman Trekking Tool Wood ZDP-189




Cold Steel Ranch Boss Bone S35VN

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AG Russell Rucarta 8Cr13MoV

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AG Russell Peanut Ivory VG-10

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Gec had a mission when they opened, to make great old timey knives out of Traditional materials. They tweeked, massaged,
Listened and loved the business to what it is today, WHY the heck would they change it?????
I'm an old curmudgeon so I get to say this > "supersteel shmupersteel".:D
 
Personally, I'd rather be cutting than sharpening and out in the bush I want a knife to sharpen quickly and without bringing a 10 piece sharpening kit with me. To be honest, I would LOVE to do a timed cutting test between a Rough rider and a bunch of so called super steels.:D:D Or a scandi ground carbon steel knife against supersteels with sharpening time and amount cut taken into consideration.

:D:D:D

Regards

Robin curmudgeon .
 
First, I have heard from dealers and fans that Bill at GEC is not about high end steels, he is about carbon steel. 440C and O1 were supposedly like pulling teeth for him. As a fat guy living in the humidity of central Maryland, I would like to see more stainless steels used, but as of today for carry rotation, I've got one 154CM knife, the rest are all D2, O1 and a new 52100, and carbon damascus. They all ride in my pockets, might as well be death to carbon steel in the summertime.

I would go to a custom maker and get what you want. You will have better fit and finish than even a GEC, and you will develop a rapport with the maker. Also, there are plenty of up and coming makers out there that put out excellent product, but their prices are comparable to a Northwoods or used Case Bose annual.

Traditional designs do not always have to have carbon or tool steel blades. However, I do appreciate the nice look of a carbon steel blade with a patina. Have you looked at Northwoods, or Queen's Schatt and Morgan/Tuna Valley line? What about Canal Streets D2 line? Case Bose annuals in either ATS34 or 154CM?

If you find custom quality at production prices, buy everything you can from that maker, because they will become quite popular very fast.
 
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