Modified Wharncliff Sebenza Project

[DallasSTB]

Thank you, Mr. Reeve, for setting the record straight. :thumbup: I think we can all learn a lesson about jumping to conclusions here, especially when the "accused" is a person of integrity and honor.

BTW, one of those would be MINE if I hadn't just picked up BG42 Seb last week!!!! I will pick a bone about unannounced special issues!!!!

Thank you again, sir.

 

[molly's survival]

I think you are quickly satisfied.
It remains for me a copy of the Oufti's design

I don't see it as a copy... outfi was not the first to think up that style of blade! and it clearly has a different shape. does it suck for him that he didn't get credit, not really... what suck is when you have an idea and nothing gets done about it. then one day you see it and it had nothing to do with you... happens every day in this land of opportunity. just smile and know that you can now own one
I do still like the look of outfi's blade without a swedge in the front though you should see the blade I drew

 

[flipe8]

Bring it into regular production, Mr. Reeve. And make a small one!:thumbup:
Please!!!

 

[Architect]

To all, especially oufti - I have attached an image of a knife (taken from a Google search) that was designed well before 2006 by Michael Walker for Klotzli. I think you will find the blade shape virtually identical to that posted in this thread in 2006. Whether oufti had ever seen this blade, quite possible since this was primarily distributed through Europe, is not even relevant since anyone could easily accuse oufti of "ripping off" Michael Walker's design. It is an excellent design, I have been using my Klotzli Sailor for over 6 years.

As for the new design being a limited edition - it is called a business strategy - grow up. "Exclusives" are done by virtually all dealers.

 

[JohnM]

Chris,

Your response was spot on and makes perfect sense. After owning many knives, I am most proud of my Reeves, not only for their craftsmanship but for the man that stands behind them. No BS, just dedication and hard work for many years, making the best product you can. If only there were more Chris Reeves in other industries -- people who keep their heads down, doing great work, without kissing ass, constantly promoting, or trying to create an "image".

This is not to disrespect Outfi's very nice design. If the timing had been different, or if you felt that Outfi had influenced your design decisions, I'm sure you would have given him credit.

Here's to Outfi for being ahead of his time and to you Chris for bringing us some of the finest knives around.

John McLeod

 

[Buffalohump]

Just because the design was submitted for consideration doesnt mean it was copied. To imply that Chris couldn't design a wharnie of his own is simply ludicrous.

Literally hundreds of makers have wharnie designs - do they all owe Oufti a credit? Of course not. The wharnie, just like the bowie, drop point, tanto and every other blade shape, have all entered into popular culture.

Nobody 'owns' these designs. So the two designs are similar, so what? Its highly likely that they would emerge with certain similarities. How different could they really be, after all? IMO CRK doesn't owe anybody anything....

 

[oufti]

Just because the design was submitted for consideration doesnt mean it was copied. To imply that Chris couldn't design a wharnie of his own is simply ludicrous.

Well I dont know if he can but apparently he didn't:

"Blade Design: Rodney Connelley & Chris Reeve (Blade concept and draft drawings by Rodney Connelley, final design and technical modifications by Chris Reeve.)"

Literally hundreds of makers have wharnie designs - do they all owe Oufti a credit? Of course not. The wharnie, just like the bowie, drop point, tanto and every other blade shape, have all entered into popular culture.

I didn't submit a detailled wharnie design to suit an existing knife handle to hundreds of makers, just one.

Whatever.

 

[Buffalohump]

So are you saying Chris could not have come up with a wharnie blade profile for his Sebenza without your original concept? I find that hard to believe.

If you feel you were robbed, take legal action...

This is why patents exist. If you don't patent an idea, and you present it to all and sundry, you cannot turn around and complain when it shows up in the flesh a few years later.

Even IF, and I stress IF, it was indeed 'copied' by Mr Connelley and CRK.

 

[oufti]

So are you saying Chris could not have come up with a wharnie blade profile for his Sebenza without your original concept? I find that hard to believe.

Dont try to make me say what I didn't, I just said that in this particular case, he didn't made the blade design, according to knifeart it's Rodney Connelley who did.

If you feel you were robbed, take legal action...

This is why patents exist. If you don't patent an idea, and you present it to all and sundry, you cannot turn around and complain when it shows up in the flesh a few years later.

Even IF, and I stress IF, it was indeed 'copied' by Mr Connelley and CRK.

I didn't said that either, all I say is that it's a pity for me that 3 years ago my idea was uninteresting and not feasible and now it's a new model.

 

[CAD]

all I say is that it's a pity for me that 3 years ago my idea was uninteresting and not feasible and now it's a new model.

Stop the pity party .... you had no control over feasible and timing.


Chris D.

 

[ExMachina]

I didn't said that either, all I say is that it's a pity for me that 3 years ago my idea was uninteresting and not feasible and now it's a new model.

i understand that it sucks for you.

the good news is that this was neither your first nor your last good idea. keep at it and something good (for you) will come out of it :thumbup:

 

[J85909266]

This is a total non-issue. One guy submits a design for a wharncliffe Sebenza, and it is turned down due to it not being a possibility at the time, due to the company being focused on other things.

Years later, the company is approached again about a wharncliffe Sebenza by a different person with a different design, and the context is different and the project is able to go ahead.

There is no foul play and no stolen intellectual property. It's just an unfortunate (Not really, even, I happen to think it's very fortunate.) coincidence.

The only person I feel bad for is Chris, for being insulted and drug through the mud by consumers for literally no reason.

 

[tichook]

It is a Modified Wharncliff blade folder, en? So Respect Reeve, Please.

 

[Gary W. Graley]

Nice one, I think that was called the Lock 45? is it yours by chance?
and welcome to Bladeforums, joined in 2008 and your first post
a real beauty too
G2

 

[=Voodoo=]

it is great that crk came out with the new design and at the same time its sad that no thanks was given oufti. not that he was entitled to anything imo. but since he was a member here and was proactive in the concept, it would of been nice for crk to acknowledge the fanbase here.

the way/tone mr reeve replied really sounded defensive. of course, i might be too if accused of stealing.

just goes to show that this forum is a place to reap benefits for crk and not to give back. the reason i believe this is partly due to all the free advertising crk gets from users posting pictures and the traffic from knife enthusiasts who never knew of the brand before. not to mention all the positive feedback and support. without this forum i bet sales wouldnt grow at the rate they have, if they grew at all...

sorry oufti again, it would of been great if your work and idea got some credit.

and to crk, you have a loyal fanbase here. show some love every now and then.

 

[LorenzoL]

it is great that crk came out with the new design and at the same time its sad that no thanks was given oufti. not that he was entitled to anything imo. but since he was a member here and was proactive in the concept, it would of been nice for crk to acknowledge the fanbase here.

the way/tone mr reeve replied really sounded defensive. of course, i might be too if accused of stealing.

just goes to show that this forum is a place to reap benefits for crk and not to give back. the reason i believe this is partly due to all the free advertising crk gets from users posting pictures and the traffic from knife enthusiasts who never knew of the brand before. not to mention all the positive feedback and support. without this forum i bet sales wouldnt grow at the rate they have, if they grew at all...

sorry oufti again, it would of been great if your work and idea got some credit.

and to crk, you have a loyal fanbase here. show some love every now and then.

Nicely said.:thumbup:

 

[ExMachina]

it is great that crk came out with the new design and at the same time its sad that no thanks was given oufti. not that he was entitled to anything imo. but since he was a member here and was proactive in the concept, it would of been nice for crk to acknowledge the fanbase here.

the way/tone mr reeve replied really sounded defensive. of course, i might be too if accused of stealing.

just goes to show that this forum is a place to reap benefits for crk and not to give back. the reason i believe this is partly due to all the free advertising crk gets from users posting pictures and the traffic from knife enthusiasts who never knew of the brand before. not to mention all the positive feedback and support. without this forum i bet sales wouldnt grow at the rate they have, if they grew at all...

sorry oufti again, it would of been great if your work and idea got some credit.

and to crk, you have a loyal fanbase here. show some love every now and then.

very well said :thumbup:

 

[Fooj]

the way/tone mr reeve replied really sounded defensive. of course, i might be too if accused of stealing.

Ya think? :grumpy: IMO, this thread was exceedingly insulting to Chris -- the way that people just let their assumptions run amuck condemning him of theft with such limited, one-sided data. Not that I think any of us are totally fickle. I think the facelessness of the internet brings out the worst in people, and I'm not thinking that we would change directions at the slightest whisper if confronted with this conversation in person. However, if imagine you're Chris, demonstrating total professional integrity for 30 years, then read the initial posts in this thread, would you not go ballistic?

just goes to show that this forum is a place to reap benefits for crk and not to give back. the reason i believe this is partly due to all the free advertising crk gets from users posting pictures and the traffic from knife enthusiasts who never knew of the brand before. not to mention all the positive feedback and support. without this forum i bet sales wouldnt grow at the rate they have, if they grew at all...

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this forum. I'm, like you, on it nearly daily (on a slow day, even more frequently ). I think, however, that there is a huge misconception amongst us that BladeForums readership constitutes a large percentage of CRK knife owners (and knife owners in general). If you take a large, non-internet sampling of Sebenza owners, for instance (this may be the easiest to execute -- just watch for the clip), you'll find that a large percentage don't do much on the computer at all, especially older ones. Another portion use a computer primarily for work -- they've got too much going on in their lives to dabble on forums like we do. Spend some time at the Blade Show, talking to CRK owners. Many of them have never heard of BladeForums, and they are knife enthusiasts to the max.

We on BFs are made up of computer-literate folks that, amongst all of our interests, have chosen our knife enthusiast slice of our "discretionary pie" to dominate our time enough to even seek out a knife forum. I would put us (the CRK fans that frequent knife forums) as on the order of 2-10% of the CRK ownership population, with BladeForums being just a percentage of that total portion. Do forums affect knife sales? Absolutely. Are they the majority driving factor (as opposed to the dealer network, magazine articles/reviews/advertising, knife and gun shows, word of mouth, etc)? No.

 

[ExMachina]

Ya think? :grumpy: IMO, this thread was exceedingly insulting to Chris

"insulting" how?? do we forget the CRK is a company and not an individual maker? just because Mr Reeve's name is part of the company's name doesn't mean that his personal moral fiber lives and dies with his company. Mr Reeve has opted to seek (wisely, IMO) all the legal advantages and protections that go with being incorporated. CRK can nor more be "insulted" that can cold steel, benchmade or walmart.

and on that topic of accusation, the only usage of the word "steal" in this thread was by people defending Mr Reeve and by Mr Reeve himself.

 

[Fooj]

"insulting" how?? do we forget the CRK is a company and not an individual maker? just because Mr Reeve's name is part of the company's name doesn't mean that his personal moral fiber lives and dies with his company. Mr Reeve has opted to seek (wisely, IMO) all the legal advantages and protections that go with being incorporated. CRK can nor more be "insulted" that can cold steel, benchmade or walmart.

and on that topic of accusation, the only usage of the word "steal" in this thread was by people defending Mr Reeve and by Mr Reeve himself.

Your point is well taken for a larger company, but from a practical standpoint does not apply to CRK. In the case of a small company like CRK, the owners ARE the company, and yes, Chris and Anne's moral fiber drive the company in every way, down to the smallest business decision.