Modified Wharncliff Sebenza Project

Looks like I missed page 5... boy that sucks... I do like the look of your blade better and I would've liked to have seen it not as a single dealer exclusive...
 
oufti said:
That's very kind of you but there's no way I will accept.

I should not even have posted the pics of the knife in this thread, now I just want to forget.

Life just sucks, then you die.
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It does not necessarily have to suck, but then yes, you die anyway.:D
 
I think this is the part when you have to decide to trust or not to trust a person or company based on reputation and history. CRK's has always had a philosophy of honor and excellence, and I don't think they would willfully neglect, ignore, or try to profit from ill-gotten materials - intellectual or otherwise.

That said, I think the fanbase here would appreciate Mr. Reeve addressing the issue firsthand without intermediaries.
 
DallasSTB said:
I think this is the part when you have to decide to trust or not to trust a person or company based on reputation and history. CRK's has always had a philosophy of honor and excellence, and I don't think they would willfully neglect, ignore, or try to profit from ill-gotten materials - intellectual or otherwise.

That said, I think the fanbase here would appreciate Mr. Reeve addressing the issue firsthand without intermediaries.
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Well said Steve......................:D:D:D
 
Fooj said:
My friend James is a wise man :).

Chris and Anne receive literally hundreds of unsolicited design concepts every year. The sources of these concepts include other knifemakers wanting to collaborate, dealers desiring exclusive design variations to sell, CRK staff members (when you produce something day after day, great ideas emerge on how to do something different/better), trade magazine editors and product reviewers, and of course, users/collectors/fans like us. I would say that the vast majority of these suggested concepts have already occurred to Chris in the process of architecting and designing the product (and, in fact, many of the concepts have already been partially designed, but never make it to production), or to Chris and Anne as they set product strategy. Many of the concepts that are received have been heard time and time again.

On a different but related note, I have observed several cases where Chris implements an idea that originated from another. In every case, Chris was faithful to seek and procure permission to use the idea, and to publicly recognize where the credit was due.

Oufti's Wharncliff Sebenza idea is a great concept; even so, it makes no sense at all to jump to the conclusion that it is an original, unique idea and that CRK ripped it off.
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Wise comment from someone knowing Anne, Chris and CRK better than anyone else in this forum.
Always nice to read you D ;)
 
Ultimately we all have pretty much zero in the way of facts here.

The only thing that I know is that the Sebenza blade design that oufti presented here over three years ago looks nearly identical to the limited release now being offered exclusively through Knifeart.

There are any number of ways that this could have happened and there's no point in speculating. That said, it's perfectly reasonable to feel a little sympathy for oufti who saw an idea that he himself designed, turned into a profitable product by someone else. Assuming that there was no cross talk whatsoever between these forums, CRK and knifeart (through third parties or whatever), the whole thing still has that "I could have been a contender" feeling that I'm sure most of us have experienced at one time or another.
 
Well now, is everyone done dissing on us?

How many of you actually thought before you posted? My estimate is that it was just a very few – and to those who did, thank you. To the rest, I am disappointed - by your willingness to jump to conclusions, to tell us how to run our business, to decide we are unethical, that we don’t care. To imply that we steal designs and that we don’t give credit where it is due is asinine. Do your homework – look at the credit we have given to Grant and Gavin Hawk, to Bob Lum, to Tony Marfione, to Bill Harsey.

I have been making knives since 1975. I have lived and breathed knives and knife designs pretty much all my life. To speculate that I had not thought of a Wharncliffe/sheepsfoot blade many years ago is ridiculous. In addition, the Wharncliffe is a well known style of blade – it is not something new. I made several custom Wharncliffe blades in the early years, and even the very first P series Sebenzas had a stylized Wharncliffe blade.

“Oufti” did a good [albeit unsolicited] job on a computer program to create an idea. We chose to reject the idea at the time for a variety of reasons, among which we did not have capacity; if we were going to create a Wharncliffe, it would be in our timing and my version of the style. The knife that has become the Insingo was suggested by Rodney and Larry Connelly some months ago. We are in a position now where our production capacity could handle a new blade design. Oufti’s work of three years ago did not enter our minds until this morning on this thread.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t! We have been asked for a Wharncliffe blade for +20 years and now that we produce one, it is just not good enough for the “cognoscenti”.


Chris
 
Chris Reeve Knives said:
Well now, is everyone done dissing on us?

How many of you actually thought before you posted? My estimate is that it was just a very few – and to those who did, thank you. To the rest, I am disappointed - by your willingness to jump to conclusions, to tell us how to run our business, to decide we are unethical, that we don’t care. To imply that we steal designs and that we don’t give credit where it is due is asinine. Do your homework – look at the credit we have given to Grant and Gavin Hawk, to Bob Lum, to Tony Marfione, to Bill Harsey.

I have been making knives since 1975. I have lived and breathed knives and knife designs pretty much all my life. To speculate that I had not thought of a Wharncliffe/sheepsfoot blade many years ago is ridiculous. In addition, the Wharncliffe is a well known style of blade – it is not something new. I made several custom Wharncliffe blades in the early years, and even the very first P series Sebenzas had a stylized Wharncliffe blade.

“Oufti” did a good [albeit unsolicited] job on a computer program to create an idea. We chose to reject the idea at the time for a variety of reasons, among which we did not have capacity; if we were going to create a Wharncliffe, it would be in our timing and my version of the style. The knife that has become the Insingo was suggested by Rodney and Larry Connelly some months ago. We are in a position now where our production capacity could handle a new blade design. Oufti’s work of three years ago did not enter our minds until this morning on this thread.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t! We have been asked for a Wharncliffe blade for +20 years and now that we produce one, it is just not good enough for the “cognoscenti”.


Chris
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I think for the most part, everyone is excited with this knife,
it is probably just how it was announced, or not announced,
that may have some impact on the loyal fans and those that have
been asking/begging/pleading in some cases ;) for such a knife
and to see that it finally has come to be.

I'm sure the first 50 will sell out quickly, will there be more with
options such as inlays? inquiring minds of course would like to know.

G2
 
Chris Reeve Knives said:
Well now, is everyone done dissing on us?

How many of you actually thought before you posted? My estimate is that it was just a very few – and to those who did, thank you. To the rest, I am disappointed - by your willingness to jump to conclusions, to tell us how to run our business, to decide we are unethical, that we don’t care. To imply that we steal designs and that we don’t give credit where it is due is asinine. Do your homework – look at the credit we have given to Grant and Gavin Hawk, to Bob Lum, to Tony Marfione, to Bill Harsey.

I have been making knives since 1975. I have lived and breathed knives and knife designs pretty much all my life. To speculate that I had not thought of a Wharncliffe/sheepsfoot blade many years ago is ridiculous. In addition, the Wharncliffe is a well known style of blade – it is not something new. I made several custom Wharncliffe blades in the early years, and even the very first P series Sebenzas had a stylized Wharncliffe blade.

“Oufti” did a good [albeit unsolicited] job on a computer program to create an idea. We chose to reject the idea at the time for a variety of reasons, among which we did not have capacity; if we were going to create a Wharncliffe, it would be in our timing and my version of the style. The knife that has become the Insingo was suggested by Rodney and Larry Connelly some months ago. We are in a position now where our production capacity could handle a new blade design. Oufti’s work of three years ago did not enter our minds until this morning on this thread.

Damned if you do, damned if you don’t! We have been asked for a Wharncliffe blade for +20 years and now that we produce one, it is just not good enough for the “cognoscenti”.


Chris
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Well said Chris.....It should have been stated in the original post that the idea was submitted several years ago though and that you were unable to do it at that time due to the reasons above. With having 30 CRK to date, I never doubt CRK character. I have spoked to Chris on the phone and was in complete awww. All I can say is that I am happy that the knife is going to be made. I will surely get one after the holidays........But it does seem odd that a design that is almost the same as one that was submitted 3 years ago is claimed to be an original idea 3 months ago ???
 
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Well said Chris!

BTW, it's just very very simple & generic "santoku" kind of warncliff, outline is the same as you can find in most of santoku knives! And in fact the design details like swedge line and positionning of it are different.
 
PiterM said:
Well said Chris!

BTW, it's just very very simple & generic "santoku" kind of warncliff, outline is the same as you can find in most of santoku knives! And in fact the design details like swedge line and positionning of it are different.
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I agree...all santoku knives have that shape.


Chris D. :D
 
That's right!
Ask anybody to draw a warncliff Sebenza, and he will draw something like Oufti's design...
 
Should we discount outfi's design because it's almost the same as Kershaw/Ken Onion's Random Task? To me, this is what knife collecting is all about. How many times have we said wouldn't "blade A" be perfect on "Handle B"? I just know, I'm in. Someone please do a bowie sebenza, please!
 
Gericom said:
That's right!
Ask anybody to draw a warncliff Sebenza, and he will draw something like Oufti's design...
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the fact still remains that this idea was submitted to CRK over three years ago, whether solicited or unsolicited; and now its a reality. Thats great news! But at least some sort of recognition should have been given as it is a copy- Plain and simple.

Chris,

I don't think anyone was trying to tell you how to run you business, but many were confused as to how the new Insingo design and Oufti's design were connected, or should I say not connected.

I don't know or care to know the dealings behind this new design, however I do find it a bit coincidental that a design was submitted and rejected, and now a 'similar' looking knife is being produced as an exclusive. But hey it gives us more choices and variety and I applaud that. Keep up the good work!
 
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