Modified Wharncliff Sebenza Project

Ouch...

Cool design...Too bad no credit was given where it is so obviously due.
 
oh i see.

i didn't realize they were two different people. i figured the name mentioned on knifeart was the same person as oufti.

:(
 
MORIMOTOM said:
oh i see.

i didn't realize they were two different people. i figured the name mentioned on knifeart was the same person as oufti.

:(
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that's what i thought at first too.

now i'm getting the sense that oufti was not involved...in which case :thumbdn:
 
Wow, either this new Sebenza model is a complete coincidence with Oufti's design or something weird is going on here. Shouldn't we wait for an explanation from Mr. Reeve before we go on speculating?
 
There is a reason that publishers and producers will not even look at unsolicited manuscripts.

It has been two years since this thread last surfaced, longer since the idea was floated by CRK directly in some form or another.

Yet some are quick to decide that a company with 25 years at the top of their field would decide to steal intellectual property.

None of us know how long this has been in the works with KnifeArt, but we do know that the company doesn't exactly scour every thread on this forum or respond to every question or idea posed. The words "contact the company directly" are the standard response to almost half the queries posted here.

After all, there is a reason publishers and producers will not even look at an unsolicited manuscript. They don't want to be sued.
 
@stjames :) :
in the beginning, CRK has been contacted and this design has been submitted to them...
they responded that they where not interessed... :confused:
 
stjames said:
There is a reason that publishers and producers will not even look at unsolicited manuscripts.

It has been two years since this thread last surfaced, longer since the idea was floated by CRK directly in some form or another.

Yet some are quick to decide that a company with 25 years at the top of their field would decide to steal intellectual property.

None of us know how long this has been in the works with KnifeArt, but we do know that the company doesn't exactly scour every thread on this forum or respond to every question or idea posed. The words "contact the company directly" are the standard response to almost half the queries posted here.

After all, there is a reason publishers and producers will not even look at an unsolicited manuscript. They don't want to be sued.
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My friend James is a wise man :).

Chris and Anne receive literally hundreds of unsolicited design concepts every year. The sources of these concepts include other knifemakers wanting to collaborate, dealers desiring exclusive design variations to sell, CRK staff members (when you produce something day after day, great ideas emerge on how to do something different/better), trade magazine editors and product reviewers, and of course, users/collectors/fans like us. I would say that the vast majority of these suggested concepts have already occurred to Chris in the process of architecting and designing the product (and, in fact, many of the concepts have already been partially designed, but never make it to production), or to Chris and Anne as they set product strategy. Many of the concepts that are received have been heard time and time again.

On a different but related note, I have observed several cases where Chris implements an idea that originated from another. In every case, Chris was faithful to seek and procure permission to use the idea, and to publicly recognize where the credit was due.

Oufti's Wharncliff Sebenza idea is a great concept; even so, it makes no sense at all to jump to the conclusion that it is an original, unique idea and that CRK ripped it off.
 
NickyJanus said:
@stjames :) :
in the beginning, CRK has been contacted and this design has been submitted to them...
they responded that they where not interessed... :confused:
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. . . and your assumption is that a wharncliff Sebenza design had never occurred to CRK before?
 
Fooj said:
. . . and your assumption is that a wharncliff Sebenza design had never occurred to CRK before?
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The minimum would have been to say to Oufti that a wharncliff Sebenza design had already been studied...
CRK cannot ignore that this knew design is nearly exactly the same than Oufti's and such behaviour is really disappointing from a firm like CRK... :(
 
Is it "stealing" when 2 people came up with the same solution given the same parameters? I will concede that there is some element of "artistic expression" in any blade design, but the solution is mostly an engineering solution. I would ask the question: "Are we seeing "artistic" or "engineering" similarities?" As my lack of artistic ability is not in question, I will be the first to admit I am not qualified to answer that question. If the similarities are 'artistic" in nature, then there might be a case for infringement. If they are engineering in nature, then there should be no worry about infringement.

The solution to a "Wharncliffe" or "Sheep's Foot" blade in a Sebenza handle is very limited. Several points are fixed (width, height, pivot location, stop pin, spacer, thumb stud placement, even length to an extent) in the design. This is because it is a modification not a ground up redesign. Given the fact that so many points are fixed, is it really a surprise that the 2 solutions with a common goal will show common traits? It should be obvious given the parameters and materials the solutions will share many traits and features. IMO this style of blade there is even less room for "artistic" license than in say a Clip Point (Example: Will the point be above or below the Center Line?)

Given all that, I am happy that we have another blade shape option in the Sebenza. I was never a big fan of the 21 blade styling. This lets me have my Warn cliff and a Sebenza at the same time, personally I love it.
 
I think I have been spending so much time on the Spyderco Forums lately that I have started to believe that Sal was the norm rather than the exception in the knife world.

That being said, I know I will not enjoy my Wharnie Sebenza unless something is done to try to right this wrong, although I have serious doubts that either CRK or KnifeArt will do something about it.

So here is what I would like to do: start a fund raiser among Blade Forum members who, like me, bought one; the proceeds would be used to buy one of these Sebenzas for oufti as our recognition of his decisive role in the whole project.
I would like to see someone like Gary in charge of this, of course if he agrees, in which case I will immediately send him my share. I think 20-30$ each would make it possible to raise the necessary amount within a reasonable time frame.

Also, from now on I will refer to this knife as the "Oufti" rather than the "Insingo".
 
LorenzoL said:
So here is what I would like to do: start a fund raiser...
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That's very kind of you but there's no way I will accept.

I should not even have posted the pics of the knife in this thread, now I just want to forget.

Life just sucks, then you die.
 
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