Most balanced (toughness/wear resistance) steel?

PS : I had forgotten
Note white steel is about half way up the Ankerson list.
 
NJBillK said:
That being said, I have seen it stated multiple times that 3Vs edge retention was very close to S30V. Trivial I know, but just stating what others on here have said.
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Oh yeah ! ! ! I did learn just recently here that 3V IS S30V. That the 3V was made more corrosion resistant and then called S30V.

Here you go. I am blown away I could find it again ! ! !
You got to love this place.

LINK <<<<
 
halden.doerge said:
Which is still a felony in 17 states.
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Dang it I just KNEW that was going to go horribly, horribly wrong when I typed it.
I'm talking about blades and steel alloys and soap box grand standing about what little I have been able to glimpse of these through the fog of unutterable ignorance that is my lot . . .
:(

:)
 
Wowbagger said:
Dang it I just KNEW that was going to go horribly, horribly wrong when I typed it.
I'm talking about blades and steel alloys and soap box grand standing about what little I have been able to glimpse of these through the fog of unutterable ignorance that is my lot . . .
:(

:)
Click to expand...

It's too late, the police are already on their way.
 
NJBillK said:
That being said, I have seen it stated multiple times that 3Vs edge retention was very close to S30V. Trivial I know, but just stating what others on here have said.
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Multiple knives tested showing around s35vn.

And it does also look like M4 has better edge retention than 3v in Cedric ada tests too. As for 3v being about the same as s30v I've read that on the forums buy no one actually tested and took count. Edit: also 3v is an evolution of s30v.

M4 is great in my use too. Is it really as tough as 3v is at the same hardness ?
 
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Lapedog said:
It's too late, the police are already on their way.
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Too late I'm long gone. Luckily I had my two 3V Frag Monkeys with me. I beat them into the wall, used them as steps and over the wall I went. Good thing I had that bug out bag with the disguise dropped for me in the woods near the train station.
 
Wowbagger said:
Too late I'm long gone. Luckily I had my two 3V Frag Monkeys with me. I beat them into the wall, used them as steps and over the wall I went. Good thing I had that bug out bag with the disguise dropped for me in the woods near the train station.
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Oh thank god bro, I'm glad you're going to be ok.

Now go hide in the woods and build a small shelter out of detritus untill they lose your scent and the trail goes cold.

Wait did you say 3v and not aus 6? You're as good as dead.
 
Lapedog said:
Now go hide in the woods and build a small shelter
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Paaaaaleeeeease.
I'm on the train. I'm a city kid. I don't build things out of branches . . . maybe out of fine African or South American hard woods.
Passenger trains just aren't what they once were . . . have you noticed ?
Substandard champagne in the dinning car tonight. I'm roughing it until I can make it to civilization but don't worry about me.
 
Modern steels like 3v, m4, cru wear are excellent. But if you look for ultimate cutting blade, Jap. white steel which has the puriest element that doesn't has carbide forming at all, forged by a master sword smith who had more than 40 years experience in forging blade, could make you a knife or sword you can ever dreamed of if money is no object to you.
I talked to a sword master in kyoto once. He said they have tried to forge sword from thel so called modern super steel, none of them excell at cutting in terms of toughness, sharpness, durability compare to pure carbon steel from mother nature. Hitachi white steel is the closest you can get. The best steel is here but a good master is always hard to find due to certain constraints nowaday. Today world emphasize on efficiency, profit, consumer's taste, neglecting the most important elemnts : materials given by mother nature and human's own capabilities. Even advanced science is traced back on nature, discovered and used by mankind. The master said a good smith should put energy in refining their skill rather than solely looking for the best steel.
Only a skilled artisan plus best material can create the ultimate tools in the world.
 
peleton blade said:
Modern steels like 3v, m4, cru wear are excellent. But if you look for ultimate cutting blade, Jap. white steel which has the puriest element that doesn't has carbide forming at all, forged by a master sword smith who had more than 40 years experience in forging blade, could make you a knife or sword you can ever dreamed of if money is no object to you.
I talked to a sword master in kyoto once. He said they have tried to forge sword from thel so called modern super steel, none of them excell at cutting in terms of toughness, sharpness, durability compare to pure carbon steel from mother nature. Hitachi white steel is the closest you can get. The best steel is here but a good master is always hard to find due to certain constraints nowaday. Today world emphasize on efficiency, profit, consumer's taste, neglecting the most important elemnts : materials given by mother nature and human's own capabilities. Even advanced science is traced back on nature, discovered and used by mankind. The master said a good smith should put energy in refining their skill rather than solely looking for the best steel.
Only a skilled artisan plus best material can create the ultimate tools in the world.
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Ok I was trying to be joking about it but what you are saying here is just straight up not true.

Hitachi White the strongest, hardest, toughest, most wear resistant and durable steel only if forged by a master smith is not a real thing. Clearly whichever "master" told you this is either wrong or a just a liar.

Yes a master smith will bring the best properties out of a steel. (That is a steel meant for forging) No a master smith does not imbue some magical properties to Hitachi Shirogami by forging it.

If you honestly are buying the whole "Japanese sword smith samurai sword the sharpest bestest sword on earth" I suggest you turn off the discovery channel. (Which has largely become an entertainment channel with a "sciencey" theme)

Edit: I am not trying to be insulting. There is lots lot learn here, stick around. I've practically learned a thing or two in my time here.......practically.
 
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peleton blade said:
Modern steels like 3v, m4, cru wear are excellent. But if you look for ultimate cutting blade, Jap. white steel which has the puriest element that doesn't has carbide forming at all, forged by a master sword smith who had more than 40 years experience in forging blade, could make you a knife or sword you can ever dreamed of if money is no object to you.
I talked to a sword master in kyoto once. He said they have tried to forge sword from thel so called modern super steel, none of them excell at cutting in terms of toughness, sharpness, durability compare to pure carbon steel from mother nature. Hitachi white steel is the closest you can get. The best steel is here but a good master is always hard to find due to certain constraints nowaday. Today world emphasize on efficiency, profit, consumer's taste, neglecting the most important elemnts : materials given by mother nature and human's own capabilities. Even advanced science is traced back on nature, discovered and used by mankind. The master said a good smith should put energy in refining their skill rather than solely looking for the best steel.
Only a skilled artisan plus best material can create the ultimate tools in the world.
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You’ve got a good point...I just don’t think most of us are needing swords these days. For what we’re discussing, it’s more cutting wood, food, skinning game, cardboard, etc.

If talking kitchen knives, HAP40, ZDP189, Blue and White are great choices. This might be the closest to a sword that most of us are actually familiar with.

If talking a chopper, 8” plus, I would strongly lean towards the more modern steals like 3V, but am open to others like 5150, 1095 and....maybe even White. Would be interesting to see some testing results.
 
ScooterG said:
You’ve got a good point...I just don’t think most of us are needing swords these days. For what we’re discussing, it’s more cutting wood, food, skinning game, cardboard, etc.

If talking kitchen knives, HAP40, ZDP189, Blue and White are great choices. This might be the closest to a sword that most of us are actually familiar with.

If talking a chopper, 8” plus, I would strongly lean towards the more modern steals like 3V, but am open to others like 5150, 1095 and....maybe even White. Would be interesting to see some testing results.
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Give me a Busse Ak47 over even the most masterfully crafter samurai sword any day when it comes to toughness and durability.

A traditional katana is not a magical sword or even designed to be the strongest blade ever. They are excellent cutters and often exhibit great steel craft for their respective times but it is the geometry of the blade that makes it cut well not the steel.

I actually think some curved sabres could probably "out cut" many katanas but I haven't run the tests myself.
 
Endless debate on this subject is meaning less. A good answer is by actually use one and compare to a variety of knives.
 
This is a bit old but it's from Phil Wilson
Some Thoughts on Knife Blade Steel Impact Toughness
http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/Knife_steel_impact_toughness.pdf

Some tool steel companies will give you data on Charpy tests of the steels that correlate
to Rockwell hardness. Crucible is particularly good at this.
So if you know the Rockwell hardness then you have a pretty good idea of the impact
resistance of the steel.
The best of all worlds is to be able to select the best steel for the knife use application. I
would select a steel formulated for high toughness (high Charpy impact resistance) for a
large camp knife or a sword. Good choices would be A-2 ( 40 ft-lbs at RC 60) or CPM
3V (85 ft-lbs ? at RC 58) On the other hand the best selection for a slicing type knife
would be a steel with a very high vanadium carbide content hardened to a high value--
at least 60. It would have a relatively low Charpy value, but that’s ok since we are
looking for maximum edge strength and wear resistance rather than toughness. A good
choice would be CPM S90V ( 19 ft-lbs at RC 58)
I do my own heat treating and have a good Rockwell tester so can get very close to the
line. In other words I make a very hard, thin blade that has enough toughness for a
working blade. I make slicers (hunting and fishing scalpels) rather than choppers so it
works out ok for me.
I think the tool steel companies are very conservative with their Charpy values.
Especially on the CPM grades. For example I have been making a lot of hunting blades
out of CPM 10V. The data sheet from Crucible on this steel indicates that it has about the
same toughness as D-2 at the same hardness. I have found that I can heat treat 10V to
about Rockwell 63 and it still has more than adequate toughness for a working knife. My
experience with D-2 in the past indicates that it starts to get pretty brittle at about
Rockwell 60.
I have also found with all the steels I am familiar with that toughness is very sensitive to
heat treating. Good heat treating means a uniform crystal structure and as fine a grain
structure as possible with any particular steel. Think about it. If you make a long bow out
of a piece of wood that has a knot in it, that’s where it’s going to break-- and at a pretty
low force. The same is true with steel. It’s going to fail where the imperfection is. I like
to use a liquid nitrogen cryo quench right after the steel comes down to room temperature
to insure the highest percentage of martensite possible and then to temper the blade a
couple of times to develop adequate toughness but still retain a relatively high hardness.
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peleton blade said:
Endless debate on this subject is meaning less. A good answer is by actually use one and compare to a variety of knives.
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So then please do that. Take video and show us what you find. :)

I have a Higonokami in Hitachi White forged by a master living treasure smith. I think he is the last master smith making original pattern higonokamis. I definitely am impressed with the steel but it doesn't have the properties of a super steel.

It is still very good stuff. Just because it isn't the best steel in every catagory doesn't mean it isn't awesome. Don't worry it's still ok to love it. It doesn't have to be the best at everything, in fact, no steel is.
HIGO13BLt.jpg
 
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