MT21P - Mule Team Fixed Blade with CPM 4V

Got my 2 last week, very excited to try out 4v. Im a fan of tool steels and 4v looks like a very interesting and promising steel. Im glad to hear that it seems to have pretty good corrosion resistance, I was a lil afraid that it wouldn't. My 3v blades pretty much act like stainless knives, I never get anything on them but m4 seems to patina around the spydie hole just from opening the knive after a while and 4v has a similar Chromium content as m4. I have a crazy idea for one of the mules, im going to make scales for one and use it as a nice edc fixed blade but im thinking of making a folder out of the second one. A good friend of mine is a custom maker and I wanna see if he's crazy enough to help me do it, :) . We'll see.
 
on_the_edge said:
I don't know if the knife is tough enough (I presume you are talking about its ability to take lateral stress here), but do note that he is doing that with his new one, not the one with the broken tip (even though he could use that knife). ;)
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That's the same knife before the tip. I beat it pretty good before I ever threw it.
 
My first test of the MT21P was to cut down one heavy-duty (thick, stiff) cardboard box, about 3 feet on each side. I cut the box into pieces roughly 1 foot square.

After this test, the blade could no longer cut copier paper cleanly. It could cut, but would snag and tear the paper frequently.

Inspection using a 45X stereo microscope showed that the edge had chipped along its entire length. By "chipped," I mean the edge, as viewed with the flat of the blade facing me, was no longer a smooth straight line, but was visibly ragged, with small pieces of metal missing.

I used a WSKO/BGA to create a new, convex edge. The steel seemed to be middle-of-the-road in terms of difficulty of sharpening -- where "easy" is plain carbon steel, and "difficult" is S35VN.

The new edge works nicely. :)
 
Cyrano said:
After this test, the blade could no longer cut copier paper cleanly. It could cut, but would snag and tear the paper frequently.

Inspection using a 45X stereo microscope showed that the edge had chipped along its entire length.
Click to expand...


I have a well used Manix 2 with M4 steel, and after I got a new Manix 2 in S110V I did my own informal test. I cut a lot of heavy cardboard and in that test the M4 did better than the S110V, which maybe it shouldn't have. People theorized that the factory edge on the S110V was not as good as the edge I put on the M4 and this makes some sense. Maybe this is the case with your 4V. Sharpen yours another time or two and then repeat this cardboard test.
 
Has anyone shaped their own handle for a Mule 21? The 21 is my first Mule. Do most people just leave them scale-less and use them as test beds like they were intended? Do a lot of people buy scales to bolt on? I shaped a handle for mine and I'm curious to see if anyone else has done (or is in the process of doing) the same?

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TheGearGuy said:
Has anyone shaped their own handle for a Mule 21? The 21 is my first Mule. Do most people just leave them scale-less and use them as test beds like they were intended? Do a lot of people buy scales to bolt on? I shaped a handle for mine and I'm curious to see if anyone else has done (or is in the process of doing) the same?

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I just use the Halpern Titanium option #4 scales, I have several sets of their G10 and Micarta handle scales. I then can mix and match as I desire. This works very well when using the sheath pro sheaths for carry. I have 2 more of their sheaths coming soon.
 
TheGearGuy said:
Has anyone shaped their own handle for a Mule 21? The 21 is my first Mule. Do most people just leave them scale-less and use them as test beds like they were intended? Do a lot of people buy scales to bolt on? I shaped a handle for mine and I'm curious to see if anyone else has done (or is in the process of doing) the same?

N0H32Q1h.png
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Click to expand...

There is a HUGE thread on the Spyderco factory forum regarding this. Simple answer; YES, people shape their own scales for the Mule all the time. There are some pretty sweet ones! :cool:

Nice job! :thumbup: Yours looks GREAT!!! :D
 
I just completed the sheath for my Mule 21. I used Brown Kydex, OD Green straps, gunmetal rivets and green Chicago bolts.
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yakantosh said:
What are you all using to sharpen this 4v with?
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So far, just my Sharpmaker standard rods and a strop.

I also have the SM CBN rods as well as a wide assortment of DMT diamond stones. Just haven't needed to use them ... yet.

Since migrating to diamond and CBN, I no longer wonder 'what am I going to use'.
 
bdmicarta said:
... People theorized that the factory edge on the S110V was not as good as the edge I put on the M4 ... Maybe this is the case with your 4V. Sharpen yours another time or two and then repeat this cardboard test.
Click to expand...

Round 2 of my Mule test:

I started with a convex edge I'd created with the WSKO/BGA, which cut paper nicely and looked good under my 45X stereo microscope:


p1624971847-4.jpg


Looking edge-on in the microscope (i.e., with the edge facing up, towards the microscope objective,) with strong lighting coming from a ring light surrounding the objective, this edge reflected almost no light. It was barely visible as a very thin, faint straight line.
​

Using this edge, I cut down another large heavy-duty (double-wall) cardboard box, then several smaller single-wall cardboard boxes.

After these boxes were cut, only a few small regions of the edge could cut paper at all; most of the edge either skipped or snagged on the paper.

Inspection using a 45X stereo microscope showed that the edge was pretty much a train wreck, with both chipping and plastic deformation:

Once again, the blade had chipped along its entire length. By "chipped," I mean the edge, as viewed with the flat of the blade facing me, was no longer a smooth straight line, but was visibly ragged, with small pieces of metal missing:

p1851875958-4.jpg


Looking edge-on in the microscope, several regions of the edge showed they had either been flattened out, or rolled over. Such regions appeared as bright, thick highlights. Flattened regions were still straight (linear,) but with significant width. Rolled-over regions showed irregularly-shaped highlights.​

Once again, the WSKO/BGA was able to remove the damage, and create a nice new edge.
 
Cyrano said:
Round 2 of my Mule test:

I started with a convex edge I'd created with the WSKO/BGA, which cut paper nicely and looked good under my 45X stereo microscope:


p1624971847-4.jpg


Looking edge-on in the microscope (i.e., with the edge facing up, towards the microscope objective,) with strong lighting coming from a ring light surrounding the objective, this edge reflected almost no light. It was barely visible as a very thin, faint straight line.
​

Using this edge, I cut down another large heavy-duty (double-wall) cardboard box, then several smaller single-wall cardboard boxes.

After these boxes were cut, only a few small regions of the edge could cut paper at all; most of the edge either skipped or snagged on the paper.

Inspection using a 45X stereo microscope showed that the edge was pretty much a train wreck, with both chipping and plastic deformation:

Once again, the blade had chipped along its entire length. By "chipped," I mean the edge, as viewed with the flat of the blade facing me, was no longer a smooth straight line, but was visibly ragged, with small pieces of metal missing:

p1851875958-4.jpg


Looking edge-on in the microscope, several regions of the edge showed they had either been flattened out, or rolled over. Such regions appeared as bright, thick highlights. Flattened regions were still straight (linear,) but with significant width. Rolled-over regions showed irregularly-shaped highlights.​

Once again, the WSKO/BGA was able to remove the damage, and create a nice new edge.
Click to expand...

How does this compare to other steels ?
 
@Phair12, SpeedHoles:

This is my first go at testing knives, so I have no points of comparison.

If I repeat my procedure with other knives, to what extent will the results be meaningful, given differences in blade geometry? Creating new edges using the WSKO/BGA should remove some variation, but it's not clear to me that the final geometry of my WSKO/BGA edge will always be independent of the underlying blade geometry (including blade width, blade stock thickness, and primary grind.)
 
Just got my MT21 in about a week ago. Have to get some scales on it, then I'll start carrying it. Anxious to try it out.

Anyone else here have any follow ups on their usage and how 4V is working out?
 
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