Multi fuel forced air.

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Just wanted to bring this back up to the top and see if any of you guys have had any luck with this yet...I will be looking for the furnace setup soon and trying that to set one of these up.
Bruce
 
I was just getting online to see if I can find an electric oil pump. The Air mixing I think will be to harsh in order to create an atomizing mist. If I can find a pressure pump I think it will work. If I were going for higher volume the air draw would work. I want more control than that.

Chuck
 
I was thinking about building it like a sand blaster. With a presurized tank. Then have a T at the outlet and a valve for more air. Finaly another valve and a small injecter. The presure would come from my air compresor. What do you guys think?

I think I have everything I would need to try this but its so dam cold outside I have not done anyhthing I didnt have to:)
 
i think you could presurize the tank with propane
 
there was an old post on dons forum about it
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=4470&hl=oil+burner


for the gun burner ... i did find the nose to heat up abit... so i made that little nose on the side of the forge... so i can keep the burner out of the forge bore..... just the face plate butts up against that nose ....

the flame is kinda long on these burners... ..

i ran it for awhile on kerosene ..... it does very nicely... the only complaint i have is that when foolin around with the air... i'd get a puff of this kinda unburnt kerosene exhaust.... it does stink up the forge area ....

another thing.....i was surprised how quickly it went through fuel... ... thinking a thimble of oil would run that sucka all day.... not so... a big jug went by in an hour or two...

also..... i believe that the temp on this can be boosted with more air...


an easy way to do this is buy an oil pump off of ebay for 40 bucks... hook in up to a rated nozzle and blow it in the forge bore with alot of air... .... ofcourse with a propane preheat of the forge..


Greg
 
Hey I am interested in adding a oil burner to my forge also. I work at a refinery and we throw away lots of pieces of stainless tubing. 3/4" 1/2", 3/8" 1/4" even 1/8 od. If you need short (under 12") pieces let me know and I also can get fittings, tube to tube tube to pipe. I am thinking about for the actual piece than the oil flows into the center of the burner. You can convert a compression fitting as a thru hull. We do it a lot. Just drill out the fitting body to tubing od and run the tubing thru to the length you desire and then tighten the feral nut. I even come across a few used needle valves. If you need a couple pieces for this type of project let me know and I may be able to provide for shipping cost. Jim ib2v4u@hotmail works best
 
Greg,
Your findings are exactly why I want an independent oil system not tied to the air system. The oil is just an augmentation rather than a primary fuel. It would reduce but not eliminate the propane. I am hoping to find a pressure pump or tank system. I was looking at an air tank or similar. Just can't afford too much right now. I do not like a drip system it will not give me the control I want.

Chuck
 
i think i see what your getting at...

the pumps are simple enough to find..
http://www.suntecpumps.com/

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=suntec+oil+pump&category0=

or just hunt in the bargain hunter mags and you can get the whole gun burner for next to nothing at all..

as for the compressed air design... that should be easy to do... i imagine it would be just like one of the air brush paint guns...

there are some youtube vids of the comressor ones... they seem to be abit on the noisy side..

http://www.bro.com.au/burners.htm


the gun burner was mostly an experiment to see if it works.... i know the next system i make will have a more controlable air source.. and two oil pumps.. ( it'll be a furnace for melting steel.. )


i'm positive you can do make your idea work with very little money in it... just need the compressor...

Greg
 
Now we are getting somewhere...Great ideas....cant wait to start finding some parts to get myself set up...I am thinking of trying the oil out of air conditioning and refrigeration compressers,That stuff will ignite and burn great off the pressure straight out of the compresser (just torch the tubes off when removing the compresser)I have done it many times at the scrap yard.

Bruce
 
If you use waste oil for forging..could you possibly add too much carbon or impurities to your welds. Say when your welding damascus? On the flip side, could it add carbon to your steel making it harder. Sorry, too many questions and not enough brain to finger things out...
 
i don't think i'd worry too much about using oil... unless it has pcb's in it


here some info from an industrial burners handbook...

Liquid Fuels
Boersma (1973) showed that the heat transfer from liquid oil flames can be considerably higher
than for comparable gas flames (see Figure 6.20).91 This is caused by particle generation in the
flames where the particles radiate like graybodies, similar to solid fuel flames. An example of an
oil flame is shown in Figure 6.1.

FLAME
LUMINOSITY

An example of a high-luminosity flame is shown in Figure 6.1.
3
An example of a low-luminosity
flame is shown in Figure 6.2. The flame luminosity is a function of many variables but is
especially dependent on the fuel. Solid and liquid fuels tend to make more luminous flames
than gaseous fuels because of particles in the flame that radiate like graybodies. A recent trend
in the glass industry has been to make more luminous flames, with natural gas as the fuel, to
improve the thermal efficiency of the glass melting process.
4
The burner design also plays a
large role in how luminous the flame will be and how heat is transferred from the flame to the
load.
5

Gaseous Fuels
One of the benefits of the gaseous fuels used in industrial combustion applications is that they are
very clean-burning and normally generate very few particulates. However, this is a detriment when
it comes to heat transfer from flames because gaseous flames are often very nonluminous and may
only radiate in a few narrow wavelength bands as discussed in Chapter 2



so injecting a little oil in there sounds good..;)

Greg
 
I have been looking at ebay and MSC and various sites. Found several pumps I like and decided to see what I could find locally. Ordered a oil fired furnace pump and atomizing nozzle. It will be in on Monday.I will see what I have to do once it comes in. It will need a motor to run it but i think I can find one of those. Then the plumbing. Hope it can be running mid to late next week. I have a ton of work to do and would like it to be running. AS far as introducing impurities into the steel, If you can forge with coal, oil will be no problem. Coal has so many impurities most of it is unusable. I am planning to use waste veggie oil it burns really clean. If I have to I will use Crank Case oil but only out of desperation. Also I am setting up to make bio-diesel. I hope to have enough oil and diesel to run both the forge and my truck.

Chuck
 
A C Richards said:
I have been looking at ebay and MSC and various sites. Found several pumps I like and decided to see what I could find locally. Ordered a oil fired furnace pump and atomizing nozzle. It will be in on Monday.I will see what I have to do once it comes in. It will need a motor to run it but i think I can find one of those. Then the plumbing. Hope it can be running mid to late next week. I have a ton of work to do and would like it to be running. AS far as introducing impurities into the steel, If you can forge with coal, oil will be no problem. Coal has so many impurities most of it is unusable. I am planning to use waste veggie oil it burns really clean. If I have to I will use Crank Case oil but only out of desperation. Also I am setting up to make bio-diesel. I hope to have enough oil and diesel to run both the forge and my truck.

Chuck
Click to expand...

Thats awesome! Making your own bio-diesel. If it wasnt for the fact you live on the other side of the country I would have to beg you to let me check that out.

I have started to put mine together. As soon as I get something working I will post pics. I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with.
 
ib2v4u said:
Hey I am interested in adding a oil burner to my forge also. I work at a refinery and we throw away lots of pieces of stainless tubing. 3/4" 1/2", 3/8" 1/4" even 1/8 od. If you need short (under 12") pieces let me know and I also can get fittings, tube to tube tube to pipe. I am thinking about for the actual piece than the oil flows into the center of the burner. You can convert a compression fitting as a thru hull. We do it a lot. Just drill out the fitting body to tubing od and run the tubing thru to the length you desire and then tighten the feral nut. I even come across a few used needle valves. If you need a couple pieces for this type of project let me know and I may be able to provide for shipping cost. Jim ib2v4u@hotmail works best
Click to expand...

Jim I hope you save that 1/4 and 1/8 od stainless tubing when you can. I sure would like to have some. I can think of lots of uses for it but I am sure you can to.:D
 
Steel Shaper,

I picked up a diesel ford f250 so I need to cut my fuel costs down. My son just happens to be an Engineer that is starting up a bio-diesel plant in San Diego. He has designed several plants and used to make his own in his patio closet. Runs his car on it (can't tell proud papa talking). He is going to set me up. He even helps out with BTU calculations for the forge etc. Nice to have smart kids.

Chuck
 
Hey Chuck,That is really cool.You wouldnt want to pass on some of that knowledge about making the Bio Diesel would ya...

I just realized were your from,I was born in Salem and raised most of my life in Portland.My cousin lives in Salem and is a knifemaker also...

Bruce
 
Thats cool Chuck. Maybe I should start having kids:) I hope you let us know how it goes for you.

I worked on my oil burner some. I am pretty sure its going to work but I need to make a run to the hardware store for some parts before I can finish it up. I tested it without the tank being presureized and it did work but not as well as I hoped. A couple more fittings so I can devide up the air from the compresser and I should be good to go. Jest with the gravity I could go from a spray to a mist. But it flutter some because of the pressure being uneven.
 
Without explaining it all, just look up BOILERS, they use natural gas for the main power, and oil when they need to change. the burners are available at good prices or the diagrams are very easy to follow and have been used for years with excellent results. The smaller scale boilers will have parts that will work (if you wanted to just buy them) for the forge, or if ya want to build a huge one i have some 6 foot oil injectors lying around. :)
 
If you take a look here, it is Kevin's forge page. My forge is of the same design. It is simple, easy on fuel, and the darn thing just works. I got the design originally from Bruce Fuller...horizontal design, burner in the middle, positioned for the proper swirl of the flame or "dragon's breath".

It is very, very fuel efficient. I can run a small propane bottle without it ever icing up. We forged for 3 solid days at Bruce's house one time, 12 hour days with only 30 gallons of propane.

I am not throwing rocks at using oil (actually it is a pretty good idea). I am just saying that the opportunity as far as fuel consumption is concerned may be in the forge design or burner type.

The forges we use are made out of 8" and 10" pipe with Kaowool as an insulator and Satanite to cap or seal it. The Burner is identical to Kevin's. The blower is only 70 CFM, Grainger part no. 4C443A (part no. 1TDP3 will work as well). I have a ball valve between the blower and the gas nipple. Trying to block the air intake with a piece of cardboard leaves a lot to be desired as far as trying to control the air flow. It just doesn't quite work. A 2-inch ball or gate valve can be had a plumbing supply store, or even Lowe's or Home Depot in the plumbing department. Total costs to build the forge is around 100-125 bucks.

I have used other friends vertical forges before and although I like how they heat, they DO use a lot more fuel. For me and my use, the design on Kevin's website just plain works.

Craig
 
I agree that propane forges can be alot better... .. specially if you make a recuperative forge and use some of the exhaust btus to preheat intake air..

i believe the benefits of a multifuel forge would be the cheep biodiesel or house fuel oil... and the added effect of the luminosity of oil.... it would transfer heat much better to the iron being heated...

now is it worth the trouble.... only one way to find out...;);)

there are lots of old patents on oil forges... so at one time they did have lots of them going..


Greg
 
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