This all stems from one guy (who hasn't commented in a while) saying that my blade should not have a thumb ramp and it looks terrible. He also had some more to say that I disagreed with. Everyone has criticized me for disagreeing with the rude man. Like I said, I never asked about how my knife looked. He just decided to say, "hey that's terrible".... I'm not defensive. I am confident in what i have done and i don't put up with gabage like that. I stand up for myself.
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My 1st Knife is Done! ....Now I Have Some Questions.
- Thread starter dzlvs8
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This all stems from one guy (who hasn't commented in a while) saying that my blade should not have a thumb ramp and it looks terrible. He also had some more to say that I disagreed with. Everyone has criticized me for disagreeing with the rude man. Like I said, I never asked about how my knife looked. He just decided to say, "hey that's terrible".... I'm not defensive. I am confident in what i have done and i don't put up with gabage like that. I stand up for myself.
BTW, I realized that I hadn't posted a picture of the knife without it being glazed in BLO. Here is an overly dramatic video I made of my knife with the final finish on the handle. Some will think that the video is silly and overdone, but guess what. I had fun doing it, so I did it to the extreme.
Note: I am not a video production guy. I was just toying around with Sony Vegas. I wish there were others out there that had some production in their knife videos too. To me, it just makes the knife porn that much better! For instance, tough thumbs makes some cool mods, but they would look even cooler if he wasn't just bangin rap music on a cell phone on the table during the videos. If there is anything out there like I am talking about, Will Moon comes to mind when I think of more dramatic knife videos. Will Moon, Spacey music, and knives with moon glow. The kid is a genius.
[video=youtube;NnpHOeoAcPk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnpHOeoAcPk&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Note: I am not a video production guy. I was just toying around with Sony Vegas. I wish there were others out there that had some production in their knife videos too. To me, it just makes the knife porn that much better! For instance, tough thumbs makes some cool mods, but they would look even cooler if he wasn't just bangin rap music on a cell phone on the table during the videos. If there is anything out there like I am talking about, Will Moon comes to mind when I think of more dramatic knife videos. Will Moon, Spacey music, and knives with moon glow. The kid is a genius.
[video=youtube;NnpHOeoAcPk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnpHOeoAcPk&feature=youtu.be[/video]
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That's my point. Stacy saying that this or that is terrible is not something that I take as rude. Again, I would guess most feel that way.
I don't see what you've done as standing up for yourself. It's more like having thin skin and feeling hurt. Nothing wrong with that as long as you recognize it. Honestly, it may have hurt my feelings until I got a feeling for the vibe here. The honesty from other, more experienced makers is a bit refreshing. It only takes a little bit of humility to fit in. Well, that and understanding that no one here has ill feelings for you or your work.
I'd just stop replying and start over. I bet everyone would forget about all of this soon enough. If you still disagree, well, I don't know what else to say.
BluntCut MetalWorks
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My 2cents + 1 extra happy glass of wine...
Intertwined between design & art <=> function & form can be subtle. Experiences/wisdom may push us to instinctively accomplish function before topping with artsy decorations. What's right/best for you/me right now is probably right according to your/my current point of references. Just extract the applicable goods and discard the craps. To me - this forum collective is very generous & quite humble!
Intertwined between design & art <=> function & form can be subtle. Experiences/wisdom may push us to instinctively accomplish function before topping with artsy decorations. What's right/best for you/me right now is probably right according to your/my current point of references. Just extract the applicable goods and discard the craps. To me - this forum collective is very generous & quite humble!
Somebody saying anything that is terrible IS rude. My feelings were not hurt. I like how my knife is. It is very rare that I have come across anyone directly telling somone else on here that their knife design is terrible. Seriously no one does that and nothing gives someone the right to be so rude without consequence. I assume he's just mad that his first knife looked like something that was ran over by a car 100 times. 
In regards to the "shoulds" and "woulds" about designing a knife, part of me is/was sticking up for all first time knife makers when it comes to others trying to pigeon hole the newbs into making tried and true standard knives before they get into anything that they may really want to do. No matter how crazy it may be. I basically felt a general lack of respect for ones freedom of design. It's probably the main reason why all people get into making knives in the first place. I know I did.
In regards to the "shoulds" and "woulds" about designing a knife, part of me is/was sticking up for all first time knife makers when it comes to others trying to pigeon hole the newbs into making tried and true standard knives before they get into anything that they may really want to do. No matter how crazy it may be. I basically felt a general lack of respect for ones freedom of design. It's probably the main reason why all people get into making knives in the first place. I know I did.
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Somebody saying anything that is terrible IS rude. My feelings were not hurt. I like how my knife is. It is very rare that I have come across anyone directly telling somone else on here that their knife design is terrible. Seriously no one does that and nothing gives someone the right to be so rude without consequence. I assume he's just mad that his first knife looked like something that was ran over by a car 100 times.
In regards to the "shoulds" and "woulds" about designing a knife, part of me is/was sticking up for all first time knife makers when it comes to others trying to pigeon hole the newbs into making tried and true standard knives before they get into anything that they may really want to do. No matter how crazy it may be. I basically felt a general lack of respect for ones freedom of design. It's probably the main reason why all people get into making knives in the first place. I know I did.
I kinda figured that you'd say that. Stacy is the (long time) moderator of this privately owned forum. I believe he can say whatever he wants as long as Spark is okay with it.
Anyway, I'm done replying in your thread. Good luck man.
Brian.Evans
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DZ, attitudes like yours are why I have backed well away from participating in this subforum. At one time the makers forum was populated by a whole bunch of really awesome high end makers. Now, they hardly post. Stacy makes killer knives, plenty of them are outside the box. I know he doesn't need me or anyone else to stick up for him. He's a grown man that acts like one. He gives since freely when asked for, and I'd let him critique my blades, design and all, anytime he damn well offered.
You want my opinion? You asked for opinions right? I think your knife needs a lot of design work. You hardly knocked it out of the park. Kind of a bunt, really. Features have reasons for existing, not just for the purpose of existing.
You don't have to make knives that look anything like anyone else's. You say we don't like it because we've never seen anything like it? Why haven't we seen anything like it? What specific features that you incorporated into your design do you feel add to the utility of the blade? Not the look, the utility? I'm serious, I want you to answer that question. If your design features have a purpose, than maybe we all missed the boat here.
You say experienced makers try to pigeon hole New makers into established designs? Damn straight they do. Know why? Because it's how you know where the box is and what it looks like before you start thinking outside it. A simple drop point hunter is a classic design because it works really well. The features incorporated into the design add to the overall utility of the knife. Like it was said earlier, find the box first. There is freedom of design, but sometimes stuff just doesn't make sense on a certain knife. If it doesn't make sense, it should be eliminated. Clean work should be the goal. Little tweaks in a design make huge differences.
Freedom of design doesn't mean anything and everything is automatically great. It means everything had to price it's worth, and if it does, than no matter how revolutionary it is, if it works, it works. New and different does not equal revolutionary. Btw, Nemisis Knives already does a pocket clip on a fixed blade. Not overly revolutionary.
If you really, really feel like you knocked out out of the park design wise, post this knife up in the Customs and Handmade subforum. But I'm warning you, the attitude you've displayed here will be even less tolerated there. You see, there is where people who make multi hundred dollar and multi thousand knives show off their work. It's where you can get additional feedback on your work, often brutally honest feedback on your work. They ripped my second slipjoint to shreds. I got told I needed to go to pin peening school. That one comment was worth more than 10 good jobs! by a bunch of inexperienced makers (which the commenters in this post are not.)
I will say, this subforum runs towards traditional designs. It's not bad, it just is. There are lots of knives posted in the general subforum that are made by production companies that I have no idea what people were thinking when they designed them. Stuff that would have been shot down on a design critique here. However, those guys knew where the box was.
By and large, I rarely post in "what do you think of my knife" type threads because I don't feel like I have the requisite base of knowledge and skill from which to reply, and because I feel like most people just want a pat on the head, and I don't roll like that. I want to tell it how I see it, and I kind of just take the "can't say anything nice, don't say anything" rule. However, I'm in a general bad mood tonight, so why not?
If you stepped foot on my ambulance with that attitude, we would have a come to Jesus meeting. Like was said, back off, say you're sorry and everybody will back down from this. Everyone is pretty great here, but sometimes bad apples come in.
Btw, here's my first and second knives. Lots wrong with it, but I fixed the problems on my next knife and fixed the design because it had features that just didn't work. I don't think it looked like it got ran over by a truck.
Anyway, bottom line; grow up, lose the attitude, participate in the forum. Take the criticism, learn more, then ask for more criticism. Grow as a knife maker. There are two ways to make knives. Make what you want, regardless of its good, bad, or otherwise. Keep making it just how you like. Feel good and have fun. Or, decide to lab to make knives that actually work, even if it means getting ripped on, as long as you grow as a maker. I thought that's where you were going after reading your first posts, but somewhere you kind of got a bit defensive.
You want my opinion? You asked for opinions right? I think your knife needs a lot of design work. You hardly knocked it out of the park. Kind of a bunt, really. Features have reasons for existing, not just for the purpose of existing.
You don't have to make knives that look anything like anyone else's. You say we don't like it because we've never seen anything like it? Why haven't we seen anything like it? What specific features that you incorporated into your design do you feel add to the utility of the blade? Not the look, the utility? I'm serious, I want you to answer that question. If your design features have a purpose, than maybe we all missed the boat here.
You say experienced makers try to pigeon hole New makers into established designs? Damn straight they do. Know why? Because it's how you know where the box is and what it looks like before you start thinking outside it. A simple drop point hunter is a classic design because it works really well. The features incorporated into the design add to the overall utility of the knife. Like it was said earlier, find the box first. There is freedom of design, but sometimes stuff just doesn't make sense on a certain knife. If it doesn't make sense, it should be eliminated. Clean work should be the goal. Little tweaks in a design make huge differences.
Freedom of design doesn't mean anything and everything is automatically great. It means everything had to price it's worth, and if it does, than no matter how revolutionary it is, if it works, it works. New and different does not equal revolutionary. Btw, Nemisis Knives already does a pocket clip on a fixed blade. Not overly revolutionary.
If you really, really feel like you knocked out out of the park design wise, post this knife up in the Customs and Handmade subforum. But I'm warning you, the attitude you've displayed here will be even less tolerated there. You see, there is where people who make multi hundred dollar and multi thousand knives show off their work. It's where you can get additional feedback on your work, often brutally honest feedback on your work. They ripped my second slipjoint to shreds. I got told I needed to go to pin peening school. That one comment was worth more than 10 good jobs! by a bunch of inexperienced makers (which the commenters in this post are not.)
I will say, this subforum runs towards traditional designs. It's not bad, it just is. There are lots of knives posted in the general subforum that are made by production companies that I have no idea what people were thinking when they designed them. Stuff that would have been shot down on a design critique here. However, those guys knew where the box was.
By and large, I rarely post in "what do you think of my knife" type threads because I don't feel like I have the requisite base of knowledge and skill from which to reply, and because I feel like most people just want a pat on the head, and I don't roll like that. I want to tell it how I see it, and I kind of just take the "can't say anything nice, don't say anything" rule. However, I'm in a general bad mood tonight, so why not?
If you stepped foot on my ambulance with that attitude, we would have a come to Jesus meeting. Like was said, back off, say you're sorry and everybody will back down from this. Everyone is pretty great here, but sometimes bad apples come in.
Btw, here's my first and second knives. Lots wrong with it, but I fixed the problems on my next knife and fixed the design because it had features that just didn't work. I don't think it looked like it got ran over by a truck.
Anyway, bottom line; grow up, lose the attitude, participate in the forum. Take the criticism, learn more, then ask for more criticism. Grow as a knife maker. There are two ways to make knives. Make what you want, regardless of its good, bad, or otherwise. Keep making it just how you like. Feel good and have fun. Or, decide to lab to make knives that actually work, even if it means getting ripped on, as long as you grow as a maker. I thought that's where you were going after reading your first posts, but somewhere you kind of got a bit defensive.
Last time I'm going to say it. If someone flat out tells me my styles are wrong and terrible and I think otherwise, I'm going to DEFEND my opinions and theres nothing wrong and with defending my beliefs and me explaining why I feel someone else is wrong. No mater who the person is. I shouldnt even have paid any attention to the comment since it was disrespectful anyway. Like I said, you reap what you sow. I'll just keep saying the same things over and over and over and all I get is more disrespectful and insulting comments. This is getting extremely boring. I'm pretty sure there is someone else that just started making knives on here that you can belittle other than me.
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Guys,
This isn't productive anymore. Lets just step away from it and let DZ make his knives the way he wants to make them. I am closing the thread.
DZ,
Shop Talk is where we "talk" about making knives and the materials and procedures involved. If you don't want discussion on them, in the future you would be best to post your knife photos in The Gallery or in Custom and Handmade. Those places are for showing off your work ( be aware that they will almost surely be critiqued there, too). Here in Shop Talk we critique and compliment each others work, and offer each other encouragement and advice. The whole idea is that this is a virtual hammer-in. Folks who have never met another knifemaker, or never made a knife, can "stand" in a e-group shoulder to shoulder with some of the best knifemakers in the world, show each other their work equally, and ask questions about the knives and knifemaking. This has reduced the learning curve greatly for new makers. One of the best things about such an e-group is that there is no hierarchy of placement in the group. Each new post goes behind the last, thus everyone is standing in the front row. Nick wheeler, Karl Anderson, dzlvs8, and Ariel Silva all have the same standing in the group. We have very well known professional knifemakers, hobbyists, newbies, metallurgists, and serious collectors.....from every corner of the world. You will never have peerage in such a group in the real world....even if you could amass such a great bunch of folks as we have here in Shop Talk.
Sorry I hurt your feelings, it was meant as advice to help you improve. If you don't need that, then I have no more to say.
This isn't productive anymore. Lets just step away from it and let DZ make his knives the way he wants to make them. I am closing the thread.
DZ,
Shop Talk is where we "talk" about making knives and the materials and procedures involved. If you don't want discussion on them, in the future you would be best to post your knife photos in The Gallery or in Custom and Handmade. Those places are for showing off your work ( be aware that they will almost surely be critiqued there, too). Here in Shop Talk we critique and compliment each others work, and offer each other encouragement and advice. The whole idea is that this is a virtual hammer-in. Folks who have never met another knifemaker, or never made a knife, can "stand" in a e-group shoulder to shoulder with some of the best knifemakers in the world, show each other their work equally, and ask questions about the knives and knifemaking. This has reduced the learning curve greatly for new makers. One of the best things about such an e-group is that there is no hierarchy of placement in the group. Each new post goes behind the last, thus everyone is standing in the front row. Nick wheeler, Karl Anderson, dzlvs8, and Ariel Silva all have the same standing in the group. We have very well known professional knifemakers, hobbyists, newbies, metallurgists, and serious collectors.....from every corner of the world. You will never have peerage in such a group in the real world....even if you could amass such a great bunch of folks as we have here in Shop Talk.
Sorry I hurt your feelings, it was meant as advice to help you improve. If you don't need that, then I have no more to say.
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