MY C58 JD Smith confiscated!!

[Josh K]

That's just wrong.

Even though people are saying "he should have known" I really think it's insane they can take your property and not give it back. That is stealing.

What a bunch of BS.

It's not stealing, it's confiscating. If you bought it but it's illegal for you to have it (lots of fireworks in Michigan) they will confiscate it and not give it back.

Just a guess on my part, but given that Mr. Smith a knifemaker perhaps what he's saying is that carrying a knife and/or related materials is allowed because it's directly tied to his profession. Along the lines of you can carry a hunting knife when you're hunting or on your way to/from such activity, maybe?

That said, I think it's a position that folks in a federal building would not be inclined to look on with much favor.

and et al:

Just because I'm a hunter by profession does not give me license to bring a 4" skinning knife into a federal building. You're officially off duty at that point, what are you hunting?

Now if you were giving the court a demo on knife making I could see an exception there.

 

[jdsmith02115]

That law nowhere specifically states that a federal building has different laws, so the same laws should apply, so if he is exempt standing outside the building and the building has the same laws as outside it, he should be exempt inside also.
If you can find the article of law stating "Possession of bladed weapon in federal building" and prove it's different, then he has been scammed out of a great knife.

C'mon all you "legal eagles" out there, weigh in on this one.

 

[Josh K]

C'mon all you "legal eagles" out there, weigh in on this one.

Just an FWI, Federal Law supersedes State law. Even if the state were to issue you a license saying you could carry a Busse Battle Mistress around you still couldn't take it into a federal building.

 

[mp510]

That law nowhere specifically states that a federal building has different laws, so the same laws should apply, so if he is exempt standing outside the building and the building has the same laws as outside it, he should be exempt inside also.
If you can find the article of law stating "Possession of bladed weapon in federal building" and prove it's different, then he has been scammed out of a great knife.

There is a federal law that prohibits carrying weapons into federal facilities

See 18USC930(a) and 18USC930(g)(1-2).

Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly
possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in
a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to
do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1
year, or both.

(g) As used in this section:
(1) The term ``Federal facility'' means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their
official duties.
(2) The term ``dangerous weapon'' means a weapon, device,
instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is
used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily
injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a
blade of less than 2\1/2\ inches in length.

There is one stauatory exemption that may apply to the OP; 18USC930(d)(3). That reads:

(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

My belief that applying that exemption in a case such as this one is borderline, because of the vaguity of the statute, in addition to any possible questions that may arise from local law (re. the OP's eligibility to carry the knife in Boston).

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

EDIT: The piece of law that mp510 showed says you can carry a knife or weapon in if it's part of a legal purpose. So I believe you were ripped off JD. It seems like they took advantage of the law because you couldn't prove it otherwise, that's sad.

 

[jill jackson]

That law nowhere specifically states that a federal building has different laws, so the same laws should apply, so if he is exempt standing outside the building and the building has the same laws as outside it, he should be exempt inside also.
If you can find the article of law stating "Possession of bladed weapon in federal building" and prove it's different, then he has been scammed out of a great knife.

A Government building has different rules.
You are not permitted to carry anything into a federal building that is prohibited, unless you are a law enforcement officer.
This was made quite clear to us when we took the CCDW class.
Post offices, Courtrooms, the Sheriff's office and anyother posted building we are not allowed to carry in.

 

[jdsmith02115]

Let's just get back down to earth here for a minute; I get it. I should have realized something had I even given it a couple of seconds thought. But in the course of a hectic day, I didn't remember I was carrying until too late. And I was on a bicycle, so the "back to the car" thing was out. In any case, I've said my goodbyes to that knife the minute it was taken. The thing that gets me though, is the feeling of being seriously underestimated. If I wanted to, I could make a very dangerous object from titanium and carbon fiber that an ordinary detection apparatus of the type they deploy, simply could not "see". So part of my reaction to this incident is something like; "Is that the best you think I can do?? Pulleeeze!" I might add that a rather big show of this was made openly for all to see, with the rather transparent purpose of showing "we're on the job! See??"
All of which in my opinion is nothing more than feel good half measures that obscure a rather obvious truth: You cannot protect yourself against anyone willing to take your life and their own in the process. Sorry, deal with it. What they did made no one any safer. You certainly will not catch anyone truly clever or with real malicious intent this way.

 

[DelrinFred]

There are laws, and then there is also common sense and courtesy.

Two examples of what happened to me this year:
1. county courthouse-the policeman on duty took my Buck 501, put it into a plastic bag and gave me a receipt so I could pick it up when leaving. He said nothing about the Leatherman Micra on my key chain. I knew from previous experience that the police would simply hold your knife and return it.

2. federal courthouse-I knew, again from previous experience, that no weapons are allowed, so I left my EDC in my car. Forgot about the Micra. The policeman took it out of the tray and said it was not allowed and that I should leave it in my car or check it in the lockers provided in the parking facility ($5 fee). Same laws, different people. I guess the ones here in Delaware have better training and/or some common sense in applying the law.

 

[Charlie Mike]

a rather obvious truth: You cannot protect yourself against anyone willing to take your life and their own in the process. Sorry, deal with it. What they did made no one any safer. You certainly will not catch anyone truly clever or with real malicious intent this way.

If everyone understood and operated according to this, we'd be in a much better place :thumbup:

 

[Reeek]

I have two Spyderco JD Smiths. I like them. One's a user and the other isn't . . .

 

[p_mcmanis]

That law nowhere specifically states that a federal building has different laws, so the same laws should apply, so if he is exempt standing outside the building and the building has the same laws as outside it, he should be exempt inside also.
If you can find the article of law stating "Possession of bladed weapon in federal building" and prove it's different, then he has been scammed out of a great knife.

I think with the 2 and 1/2 blade limit thats mass. state law. The federal law supercedes state law in any case where the federal government has authority (such as a federal building, interstate commerce, washington dc, etc) unless the law explicity states that it does not.

 

[mp510]

EDIT: The piece of law that mp510 showed says you can carry a knife or weapon in if it's part of a legal purpose. So I believe you were ripped off JD. It seems like they took advantage of the law because you couldn't prove it otherwise, that's sad.

There is, unfortunately, a lack of caselaw regarding application of that exemption. I was reading an interesting article by an atty in Florida, which suggests that the "lawful purpose" might need to be proven by the defendant (that he was carrying the implement only for lawful purposes)- something that could very well be difficult to prove with an EDC knife.

That article cited US v. Murray, an ominous case from the 1st circuit. While compounded by an assault on a federal employee charge, the case clearly established that the law applies in the area between the entrance and the xray/metal detector and also (very bluntly- see the footnote) that Murray did not fit the exemption I cited earlier. Initially, at least, Murray was peacfully carrying the firearm, even though there is some ambiguity as to whether he tried to intimidate the guards with it (the court does not provide enough facts for that one).
http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/271/271.F3d.349.01-1065.html#fn1_ref

All that said, the exemption may not be as strong as it appears.

 

[Les]

The Fed holds exclusive jurisdiction on its buildings.

 

[3Guardsmen]

That law nowhere specifically states that a federal building has different laws, so the same laws should apply, so if he is exempt standing outside the building and the building has the same laws as outside it, he should be exempt inside also.
If you can find the article of law stating "Possession of bladed weapon in federal building" and prove it's different, then he has been scammed out of a great knife.

EDIT: The piece of law that mp510 showed says you can carry a knife or weapon in if it's part of a legal purpose. So I believe you were ripped off JD. It seems like they took advantage of the law because you couldn't prove it otherwise, that's sad.

I do believe you don't have a clue as to how to read and interpret the law.



Regards,
3G

 

[jill jackson]

Here's the complete law on carry in a federal building.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000930----000-.html

 

[jill jackson]

So according to the code, I can pack my Dodo's in and I bet they'd not like that. They are hardly harmless looking, but they have a blade of LESS than 2 and 1/2"!

 

[A_Blade_Afficionado]

I'm not a law scholar, I was just saying what the law says to the average Joe. 99% of people would have made the same mistake I did, I was simply reading what the law said, according to what I was provided with. But as with all things in the government, you have to read the fine print that doesn't exist. Unless there was a sign outside the building saying the laws on weapons, they shouldn't be allowed to confiscate anything not listed on that non-existant sign. People shouldn't have to go on the internet to find out something ahead of time.
(Traffic laws are different, they are self explanatory and listed at every change in them, why can't weapon laws be the same?)

In a nut shell, he was scammed. He entered a building that didn't say, on the building, "No knives," he entered, only to be taken advantage of due to vague laws. That's a crime.

The law needs to be more cut and dry, see how difficult it is to answer one question about a knife in a federal building? It took awhile to answer this question with knowledgeable people.

 

[blackfeetmageet]

Quote: All I am doing in there is research and occasionally like to be able to cut out a section of a sheet of paper containing the info I need.

I hope you're not actually doing this or you meant something else.

seriously

 

[jill jackson]

Thing is those places do have signs up in red letters on white background.
I had to take my Dad to a hospital and they even had them at every entrance. 2 and 1/2" limit on knives it stated. I'm glad I have two Dodos about the best knife ever that you can carry in legally.

 

[Josh K]

I'm not a law scholar, I was just saying what the law says to the average Joe. 99% of people would have made the same mistake I did, I was simply reading what the law said, according to what I was provided with. But as with all things in the government, you have to read the fine print that doesn't exist. Unless there was a sign outside the building saying the laws on weapons, they shouldn't be allowed to confiscate anything not listed on that non-existant sign. People shouldn't have to go on the internet to find out something ahead of time.
(Traffic laws are different, they are self explanatory and listed at every change in them, why can't weapon laws be the same?)

In a nut shell, he was scammed. He entered a building that didn't say, on the building, "No knives," he entered, only to be taken advantage of due to vague laws. That's a crime.

The law needs to be more cut and dry, see how difficult it is to answer one question about a knife in a federal building? It took awhile to answer this question with knowledgeable people.

They don't need signs. Are there signs saying "No guns allowed" on bars? Yet they are still not allowed.

How about the theater?
Sports arenas?
Schools? (My high school did not have a sign prohibiting weapons, and none of the others I've seen have)

That "I didn't know, you should have a sign" excuse is so flimsy it can't stand up on it's own.

It's not difficult to answer that question if you know the answer. Not everyone is here all day everyday.