My curiosity of Rough Rider, needs to be resolved...

It certainly is a double standard! There's a demographic out there who won't change their opinions no matter what amount of truth is established. So be it. There's room for rr to be in the ecosystem when they make so many nice knives. I enjoy mine immensely. I used irony as the mods prefer to remove geopolitics from the discussion in all cases and this one is falling into that area albeit in a much less condescending and tempered manner.


Let me clarify this:
1. It is always acceptable for a member to post about what he thinks of a knife.
2. It is not acceptable to post political statements.
2. It is acceptable to disagree.
3. It is not acceptable to imply that a person has an agenda because he finds a knife unacceptable.

It is no more wrong for a person to not like a Road Runner knife than it is for those who don't care for Queen knives, and even the few who don't care for Case/Bose collaborations.

Do not impugn the integrity of those who disagree with you.
 
thanks!
I certainly like it..even carried it to work again today..i just like this little guy
kinda sucks that its my cheapest knife, but then again, thats pretty cool in a way too :p

I sometimes get to wondering all sorts of "ifs". For instance, the Rough Rider folks are paying their manufacturer a certain amount of money to have them make a decent knife at a low price... Something that I think, for the most part, they achieve. But... what if RR decided to up the quality a bit... not to make a decent product, but a great one. What if RR decided to up the specs in overall f&f, up the grade of steel, and simply pay a bit more for this upgraded RR. So, the RR company pays a little more... the RR manufacturer gets higher standards in place (and gets more money for doing so)... and we get to pay maybe $5 more for a truly awesome product.... what if? I mean, it seems that RR has already established a name for themselves, could/would they take the next step to a higher quality RR, while still being a much less cost alternative? Never mind my "ifs"... just me thinking outloud :)
 
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I sometimes get to wondering all sorts of "ifs". For instance, the Rough Rider folks are paying their manufacturer a certain amount of money to have them make a decent knife at a low price... Something that I think, for the most part, they achieve. But... what if RR decided to up the quality a bit... not to make a decent product, but a great one. What if RR decided to up the specs in overall f&f, up the grade of steel, and simply pay a bit more for this upgraded RR. So, the RR company pays a little more... the RR manufacturer gets higher standards in place (and gets more money for doing so)... and we get to pay maybe $5 more for a truly awesome product.... what if? I mean, it seems that RR has already established a name for themselves, could/would they take the next step to a higher quality RR, while still being a much less cost alternative? Never mind my "ifs"... just me thinking outloud :)

My guess would be, that the cost increase won’t be just a little. Higher grade steels and tighter tolerances wouldn’t result just a small increase in price. A.G. Russell’s made in China knives come into mind. They are still less expensive than American made knives, but they cost significantly more than RR knives.
 
My guess would be, that the cost increase won’t be just a little. Higher grade steels and tighter tolerances wouldn’t result just a small increase in price. A.G. Russell’s made in China knives come into mind. They are still less expensive than American made knives, but they cost significantly more than RR knives.

Obviously RR is more mainstream in the sense that they aim for more overall sales numbers (like Case or Victorinox). That being the case, I believe that an upgrade to RR costing us an average of $5 per knife, could equal an amazing end product. Just like almost anything else in this world, the more you buy, the less cost per piece. AG Russell likely sells way less in total numbers, and therefore likely has less buying power, and an overall considerably higher mark-up. Not knocking AG Russell knives made in China, which have a great reputation, and which are still a bargain overall.... but I believe RR can get some better RR knives out, and not have to go up in price too much (again, I'm guessing that a $5 upcharge would make a huge difference). While a $5 upcharge on a US made knife would offer us little in quality upgrade.. I imagine a $5 upcharge on our end with a RR could make a very noticable improvement in a RR product... imo :)
 
They seem to have gone quiet on their carbon steel line. I and others were suggesting they use 1095 and produce it as their premium brand. We'll see.

Regards

Robin
 
Personally, while it would be nice to offer some carbon steel lines, I would hope to see them concentrate more on upgrading their stainless (maybe to a well heat treated 440c). For a larger piece of the masses pie... I think decent quality stainless is where it is mostly at for overall bigger sales numbers, not carbon... again, imo :)
 
As mentioned , these are a step up. They're Colt branded knives and cost about $20 -$25 on average.

Every part of this knife is finished to a higher level than a RR knife.

 
Here's another , a Schrade branded knife.

This cost $20 ( $17 if you bought 3), not quite as good as the Colt, but better than RR.

 
Now compare all the above to cheap US made hardware store knives from the 60's and 70's...
Which ones are a better value? All the bolsters, springs and blades are stamped steel , all have serious blade play, 2 were NOS.

 
The Colt is an excellent example of an old business truism: to get a noticeable increase in quality, you have to double the price. RRs at 10-13 dollars become Colts at $25. And this is with basically the same materials. You go adding a higher end steel, and price could double again. We (knife nuts) might pay $50 for an imported slipjoint with better steel, but the masses would probably not, and RRs are aimed at the masses.
 
Now compare all the above to cheap US made hardware store knives from the 60's and 70's...
Which ones are a better value? All the bolsters, springs and blades are stamped steel , all have serious blade play, 2 were NOS.

Cheap is cheap, no matter where it's made. I own a few Frontier, Ranger and Imperial knives that will function just fine, cutting anything I need to cut, like the ones in your picture. I paid less than $5 each at a gunshow just out of curiosity. It was money wasted because I never carry them, fondle them or show them off to friends. I have top quality knives from GEC, Canal Street, Queen, Bulldog and Case and life is too short to carry a lesser knife. I can't even sell them because there's no sense in selling a $5 knife and paying the same in shipping. The irony is that I won't gift them for fear of appearing cheap and yet I'm too cheap to just toss them in the trash. I'm resolved to keeping them as reminders that sometimes a good deal really isn't.
Cheapies001.jpg
 
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I beg to differ... cheap is not always cheap. There is cheap cost... there is cheap quality... and sometimes there is both... Which in that case, is cheap is cheap. But, I have learned that one has to judge on merits, not price. Imo, of course :)
 
I beg to differ... cheap is not always cheap. There is cheap cost... there is cheap quality... and sometimes there is both... Which in that case, is cheap is cheap. But, I have learned that one has to judge on merits, not price. Imo, of course :)

There is a difference between "cheap" and "low cost". The knives below were low cost, $5 each in a closeout bin at a hardware store. They are EKA 38's and I would never call them cheap. Sometimes a good deal really is a good deal.

eka001.jpg
 
They seem to have gone quiet on their carbon steel line. I and others were suggesting they use 1095 and produce it as their premium brand. We'll see.

I don't think there are that many around any more that think of 1095 as a premium steel. Although I like it in the winter time when I don't sweat through my work clothes every day, I don't miss the lack of maintenance or concern that stainless brings. I read a lot as a part of my evening relaxation, and it seems to me that the only two places that folks clamor for 1095 and its counterparts are here, and to a much lesser extent, AAPK.

For those that weren't brought up with the nostalgia aspect of a "good steel that was good enough for our grandfathers", they will certainly go to the tool that requires the least maintenance. My turning point to use it was somewhere in the late 70s when I purchased a large Browning folding hunter. It was the much touted 440c (which by the way was widely frowned upon by old timers then!) and man did it perform. Anyone that has hunted and cleaned game will testify that guts and blood will "patina" a blade to the point of corrorsion. I was shocked that the stainless was easy to clean, even when it was cleaned the next morning (evening hunt). Further, I was completely surprised how well the 440c held its edge through hide and fur, and with its hollow grind it even broke down joints nicely, slicing through cartilage like nobody's business. I was sold on stainless and carried that knife everywhere and used it on the job site, camping, hiking, etc., for years. Got a Puma 4 star after that as a gift somewhere at the end of the 70s, and I was sold on stainless.

Then I tried that same era's stainless from CASE; I learned then and there that all stainless blades aren't alike.

All that being said, probably about half my knives are carbon. And this is carbon carrying weather, so in the pocket they go.

I don't understand why RR doesn't make them in carbon as a limited release or something like that, either. I guess it is the scale of things. They might be looking at their worldwide market and making a determination of how many they will sell. If this there product is aimed to be an affordable working knife, then no doubt they will stay where they are with this. There aren't that many folks (in my experience) that talk so lovingly of their knives as a knifenut does. No one in my acquaintance loves their knives anywhere close to as much as I do.

My point is that on a global scale it might be that most folks would take stainless for the utility value of the material on a tool. I would think that if RR thought they could make some money with big numbers of sales of carbon we would have it. Their cost should go down by a few cents a knife, but then in the big numbers of manufacturing that might add up somewhere.

I dunno...

Robert
 
Last I heard (three months ago) They were still working on patterns for the carbon line.

Best regards

Robin
 
Modern 440c is great. I have a bm presidio and an old buck yearling. The yearling had giant carbides in its Bos ht not as good as the modem benchmades version
 
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Well, some of you guys have mentioned that I should give a try to the new Colt traditional pattern knives... So, three on the way, and will let you all know what I think of them when I receive them :)
 
Jimmy -- the knives below are examples of RR upping their game (and costs). Not sure if you've seen these before:

rr01_zps8168f5db.jpg


rr02_zps2eb86fc2.jpg
 
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