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They look well made, but the styling does nothing for me... But again, they seem well made 
-
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My curiosity of Rough Rider, needs to be resolved...
- Thread starter PocketKnifeJimmy
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I have been trying to find out who has the Colt brand knives made... It seems that SMKW does them. If that is the case, then I would imagine that the same factory/factories in china that make their rough riders, makes their colts (just a guess, of course) Does anybody here know more about today's colt brand knives?
Does anybody here know more about today's colt brand knives?
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I have a Colt peanut. I am uncertain if they are any better or worse than regular RR's. Meaning low price and high value, its my daily EDC.
I had purchased it on a lark just to be different. But I had picked it up based on several searchable discussions on BF and elsewhere that note that SMKW had them made at the RR factory. Same 440a steel with decent heat treat. I might be mistaken but someone had ordered some b stock RR knives or b stock Colt knives and got one or the other but was rebadged.
They talk about them a bit as their "house brand" in their SMKW youtube ads as well.
I had purchased it on a lark just to be different. But I had picked it up based on several searchable discussions on BF and elsewhere that note that SMKW had them made at the RR factory. Same 440a steel with decent heat treat. I might be mistaken but someone had ordered some b stock RR knives or b stock Colt knives and got one or the other but was rebadged.
They talk about them a bit as their "house brand" in their SMKW youtube ads as well.
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Thanks!
The three I have coming are... A titanium coated smooth black bone peanut
A titanium coated smooth black bone canoe
And a brown bone stag whittler
Fingers crossed that they turn out as good as their pics make them out to be
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According to the SMKW Knives show that is no longer---Colt--Marbles and Rough Rider brands are all owned by the owner of SMKW. Hope this helps. I have one of each brand, and Colt seems to have the most bling---Handles and heft.
Harold
Harold
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Thanks for the input
Let me ask you, if you don't mind... would you say that the Colt has an overall higher level of f&f than your Rough Rider? Thanks
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I think it is very slight. Most of the Rough Riders I have tried were great in fit and finish dept. I don't know if just luck or what, after hearing some of the replies on here. The Colts have a little more eye and feel appeal imho. The brown stag bone handles are awesome, and have some great designs. I haven't tried the black bone titanium models yet.
Harold
Harold
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Thanks again
I guess since the Colt knives are likely being made in the same factory/factories as Rough Riders are made for smkw, and since the prices I paid are in the same ballpark as the RR I already have, they will likey be about the same in overall quality.
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black mamba
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I own 34 RRs and numerous other imported Remingtons, Marbles, and Kissing Cranes, which were probably all made in the same factory. I don't remember a single one that would not shave arm hair with every blade. Sharpness is one of the best and most consistent characteristics of these knives.
A friend of mine (much older than me) would concur with you Black Mamba. He's an old Parker cutlery dealer, and claims the business model was to send you an inexpensive knife with a serviceable edge from the box, sharper than the competition. Seems to me that Rough Rider, is sort of the Parker of the 21st century from my observations and reading. They offer a similar product. I am too young to have been around when Parker was in business, but do own a NIB specimen and it reminds me of a Rough Rider. Albeit Japanese rather than Chinese.
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I posted this in another thread, but since it's relative here, this is my $3.74 RR Elephant Toenail I recently picked up on the bay. Fifteen minutes to bid with an opener of $.99 and $2.75. The pic is a quick phone shot along with my 2006 made Case XX Smooth Chestnut Bone, Mini-Trapper which lives in my pocket. I love that Case. It think I got is three or four years ago on the bay for $27 or there abouts. All knives new btw.
[/URL][/IMG]
Now, I like Case in general. I also love several of the Cases in my stash. I love that Mini-Trapper so much that when I saw a Case Canoe in the same handle material a few weeks ago at a price I was willing to pay I bid and won it. I was really looking forward to it.
First in the mail was the Case Canoe, a 2013 model. Shortly after I got the Rough Rider ET. A few years ago I had given my wife a RR ET in faux abalone that I'd gotten to check out the pattern, but didn't care that much for the look of. So, I had the earlier RR and the newer one in the same pattern to compare. I also had my 2006 Case and the new 2013 Case to compare, both to each other and to the other makes.
First the Rough Riders to each other. The earlier RR has some minor fitting flaws of scales to bolster and a little file/grinder mark on a bolster where it meets the scale. A little dished spot where someone slipped. The walk and talk of the earlier RR ET isn't as smooth or pronounced either. Not mushy, just not at its best.
The new amber jigged bone RR ET on the other hand has nice fit and finish. The phone pic doesn't do it or the Case justice. Bolsters and scale fit is fine. The Case MT only edging it out by a micro-scooch. The edge bevel on the new RR is good, but like a lot of knives, if you go micrometer happy on it I'm sure it will show what a close visual inspection will show. One side has a bit taller bevel than the other. It comes up the side a little higher. I've found that one a lot of production knives so it isn't just a RR thing. It's on American production pieces too.
While not exactly "Razor Sharp" out of the box as the blade etch says, it took a few light passes on a fine hone and a couple of strops on bare level to make it so. With that blade I was able to take some firm latigo strips and simply pop right through them will little trouble and minimal pressure. It's a pretty sharp little knife. Bottom line: The new RR ET is a nice pocket knife. It looks good, is built nicely. It doesn't open like it's on oiled ball bearings, but it doesn't drag anymore than other basic traditional knives I have/had. If you didn't look at the blade etch or the small print on the tasteful shield you would just think it's a nice slipjoint.
Now looking at the newly acquired Case XX Canoe I have to say I'm disappointed. It's a nice looking knife, but there is a noticeable difference between this 2013 production and the the 2006 made Case I carry everyday and love. The overall external F&F is nice. The newer knife walks and talks just a tad bit better than the newer RR, but just a little. The Case mini has half-stops and nice walk and talk. The real issue was the fit of the blades in the new Case Canoe. The blades were rubbing in the knife. Enough to make a mark on the main blade where as a result. In fact the blades were so off in alignment I had to be very careful closing the main blade or it would hang on top of the secondary blade and have to be shoved over to be able to close. This required some clamping in the vise and nervously tweaking the blades laterally. Inletting on the shield of the Canoe is also less than ideal. Even though both knives have the same handle material, there is a distinct difference in quality between the 2013 Canoe and the 2006 Mini-Trapper Cases.
Now we get to the new RR compared to the new Case. Also keep in mind that I paid 8 times more for this Case than I did for the Rough Rider. Comparing retail one site I picked at random that had both knives showed the Case Canoe at $49.16, while the Rough Rider Elephant Toenail was going for $11.82. As much as I love Case knives and find subtle things in them and other American and German produced traditional patterns, in this instance the Rough Rider exceeded the Case in overall finish and fit. Even if both knives were priced the same the RR would win. HOWEVER, keep in mind that this is one example. Also I wasn't comparing a RR Canoe with the Case or two ETs. I missed the bid on the RR Canoe. Maybe later I'll be able to compare same, same as the Egyptian cabbies an shopkeeper in Cairo used to say.
Also bear in mind that my 2006 made Case MT beats them both hands down. Also note that the current RR ET example also beats the earlier RR ET example I have on hand.
Even in similar patterns by the same maker knives can vary as well. I have a dear Queen delrin Winterbottom single blade Jack (also in stainless steel) that while being just a working class knife has sharp, distinct half-stops (which I love on a knife) and excellent walk and talk. I love it so much that a few years ago I picked up another one on the bay. Same pattern, scales, steel, model. The same knife in all respects, except. The action on the knife was not as clean and had none of the snap into open and close of the one I had. To look at them, it was the same knife. To operate them, very different.
So if you take the RR strictly on the basis of what does the knife give you in general and particularly for the money, then overall they are good knives these days as a working pocket knives. Also remember, that back in the 60s American knife companies were hit hard not only by Asian imports, but the German made knives, the Bokers, Klass, and others were taking market share. Just like Teddy Roosevelt made a speech in his day about the destructive practice going on with people calling themselves hyphenated Americans, the issue with that and with the impact of import cutlery on American makers is not a new thing.
I have less trouble with buying a knife that is honest about starting our and being a Chinese made knife, such as Rough Rider and Steel Warrior. I have more trouble with a venerable U.S. name like Schrade suddenly shutting its doors and the name being produced off shore. However, some of the recent non-traditional Schrade are becoming known as a pretty good knife in their own right. The SCHF14 comes to mind.
For the cost you can find a number of RR knives in a variety of traditional patterns for the only way to really resolve your curiosity is to just buy three or five in patterns and scale materials that appeal to you. If you don't like them, pass them on to someone as a gateway drug to the classics.
There is still an appeal and connection with Case, S&M, Queen and others for me that I just do not get from the RR and Steel Warrior types. It's both in terms of nostalgia and nationalism, as well as the more subtle differences between them. That little extra roundness of melting of form on the former versus the somewhat sharper edges of the later. There's a part of me that just has to be carrying a Case, Queen, or similar, or at least a SAK. But, I'm also toting that RR ET around now too and using it.
Now, I like Case in general. I also love several of the Cases in my stash. I love that Mini-Trapper so much that when I saw a Case Canoe in the same handle material a few weeks ago at a price I was willing to pay I bid and won it. I was really looking forward to it.
First in the mail was the Case Canoe, a 2013 model. Shortly after I got the Rough Rider ET. A few years ago I had given my wife a RR ET in faux abalone that I'd gotten to check out the pattern, but didn't care that much for the look of. So, I had the earlier RR and the newer one in the same pattern to compare. I also had my 2006 Case and the new 2013 Case to compare, both to each other and to the other makes.
First the Rough Riders to each other. The earlier RR has some minor fitting flaws of scales to bolster and a little file/grinder mark on a bolster where it meets the scale. A little dished spot where someone slipped. The walk and talk of the earlier RR ET isn't as smooth or pronounced either. Not mushy, just not at its best.
The new amber jigged bone RR ET on the other hand has nice fit and finish. The phone pic doesn't do it or the Case justice. Bolsters and scale fit is fine. The Case MT only edging it out by a micro-scooch. The edge bevel on the new RR is good, but like a lot of knives, if you go micrometer happy on it I'm sure it will show what a close visual inspection will show. One side has a bit taller bevel than the other. It comes up the side a little higher. I've found that one a lot of production knives so it isn't just a RR thing. It's on American production pieces too.
While not exactly "Razor Sharp" out of the box as the blade etch says, it took a few light passes on a fine hone and a couple of strops on bare level to make it so. With that blade I was able to take some firm latigo strips and simply pop right through them will little trouble and minimal pressure. It's a pretty sharp little knife. Bottom line: The new RR ET is a nice pocket knife. It looks good, is built nicely. It doesn't open like it's on oiled ball bearings, but it doesn't drag anymore than other basic traditional knives I have/had. If you didn't look at the blade etch or the small print on the tasteful shield you would just think it's a nice slipjoint.
Now looking at the newly acquired Case XX Canoe I have to say I'm disappointed. It's a nice looking knife, but there is a noticeable difference between this 2013 production and the the 2006 made Case I carry everyday and love. The overall external F&F is nice. The newer knife walks and talks just a tad bit better than the newer RR, but just a little. The Case mini has half-stops and nice walk and talk. The real issue was the fit of the blades in the new Case Canoe. The blades were rubbing in the knife. Enough to make a mark on the main blade where as a result. In fact the blades were so off in alignment I had to be very careful closing the main blade or it would hang on top of the secondary blade and have to be shoved over to be able to close. This required some clamping in the vise and nervously tweaking the blades laterally. Inletting on the shield of the Canoe is also less than ideal. Even though both knives have the same handle material, there is a distinct difference in quality between the 2013 Canoe and the 2006 Mini-Trapper Cases.
Now we get to the new RR compared to the new Case. Also keep in mind that I paid 8 times more for this Case than I did for the Rough Rider. Comparing retail one site I picked at random that had both knives showed the Case Canoe at $49.16, while the Rough Rider Elephant Toenail was going for $11.82. As much as I love Case knives and find subtle things in them and other American and German produced traditional patterns, in this instance the Rough Rider exceeded the Case in overall finish and fit. Even if both knives were priced the same the RR would win. HOWEVER, keep in mind that this is one example. Also I wasn't comparing a RR Canoe with the Case or two ETs. I missed the bid on the RR Canoe. Maybe later I'll be able to compare same, same as the Egyptian cabbies an shopkeeper in Cairo used to say.
Also bear in mind that my 2006 made Case MT beats them both hands down. Also note that the current RR ET example also beats the earlier RR ET example I have on hand.
Even in similar patterns by the same maker knives can vary as well. I have a dear Queen delrin Winterbottom single blade Jack (also in stainless steel) that while being just a working class knife has sharp, distinct half-stops (which I love on a knife) and excellent walk and talk. I love it so much that a few years ago I picked up another one on the bay. Same pattern, scales, steel, model. The same knife in all respects, except. The action on the knife was not as clean and had none of the snap into open and close of the one I had. To look at them, it was the same knife. To operate them, very different.
So if you take the RR strictly on the basis of what does the knife give you in general and particularly for the money, then overall they are good knives these days as a working pocket knives. Also remember, that back in the 60s American knife companies were hit hard not only by Asian imports, but the German made knives, the Bokers, Klass, and others were taking market share. Just like Teddy Roosevelt made a speech in his day about the destructive practice going on with people calling themselves hyphenated Americans, the issue with that and with the impact of import cutlery on American makers is not a new thing.
I have less trouble with buying a knife that is honest about starting our and being a Chinese made knife, such as Rough Rider and Steel Warrior. I have more trouble with a venerable U.S. name like Schrade suddenly shutting its doors and the name being produced off shore. However, some of the recent non-traditional Schrade are becoming known as a pretty good knife in their own right. The SCHF14 comes to mind.
For the cost you can find a number of RR knives in a variety of traditional patterns for the only way to really resolve your curiosity is to just buy three or five in patterns and scale materials that appeal to you. If you don't like them, pass them on to someone as a gateway drug to the classics.
There is still an appeal and connection with Case, S&M, Queen and others for me that I just do not get from the RR and Steel Warrior types. It's both in terms of nostalgia and nationalism, as well as the more subtle differences between them. That little extra roundness of melting of form on the former versus the somewhat sharper edges of the later. There's a part of me that just has to be carrying a Case, Queen, or similar, or at least a SAK. But, I'm also toting that RR ET around now too and using it.
The 6 I've bought wouldn't even cut printer paper out of the box. They all required sharpening despite showing no signs whatsoever of use. Where are you purchasing them?
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- 3,198
Great post, AIW. It takes a while to put that much info together and you did a great job of it!
I know what you mean by wanting to carry the old faithful knives from the old domestic makers. But I find myself drifting away from them as prices go up and in some cases quality goes down. The last two domestically made knives I bought weren't nearly as nice as their pricing might suggest they should be.
I have posted this knife before
and it continues to give great service after a few years of honest work. It has been used well in my construction work and has done some camping, hunting, and all the other things that a large stockman usually does. It has held up as well as any knife I have ever owned and continues to find itself in my pocket over my other traditionals. I have only good things to say about it, and when I got in a snit with a vendor over a the fit and finish of a domestic knife I bought, I offered to send him this knife for his inspection so he could see what a $90 knife should look like. He declined...
But take a look at this:
This image is a lot larger than the knife (it is only 4" and fairly slim), and I posted it that way so you can see that after a few years of work it hasn't even loosened up. Without the right light you can barely tell the difference between the springs and the liners. All of the cutting, slicing, and light prying this knife has done to all kinds of material, and it still snaps like a mousetrap and there isn't a bit of wobble on any of the blades. The scales were coal black and I thought they were some kind of Delrin or acrylic. Nope, they are the same kind of pakka wood used by Buck, etc., just dyed well all the way through. They are evenly scratched to a satin finish, but show no movement, shrinkage, or damage. This knife in all its stainless bolsters, blades, pins, springs and liners is a work knife through and through and it does that as well as the best of them. With reasonable care this knife will easily last my lifetime.
But I still love my OLD Case knives more, and always will. And I only have a few Pacific Rim knives. But I am the kind of guy that believes in getting what I pay for, regardless of price. So the question weighs heavy on me, "why can't I get the quality I want for $90 when I can get better for $12?" I think that if the offshore manufacturers continue on their path to consistent product quality (good, better than good, great, or which ever description fits best) they will continue to find their place in more and more pockets.
Robert
I know what you mean by wanting to carry the old faithful knives from the old domestic makers. But I find myself drifting away from them as prices go up and in some cases quality goes down. The last two domestically made knives I bought weren't nearly as nice as their pricing might suggest they should be.
I have posted this knife before
and it continues to give great service after a few years of honest work. It has been used well in my construction work and has done some camping, hunting, and all the other things that a large stockman usually does. It has held up as well as any knife I have ever owned and continues to find itself in my pocket over my other traditionals. I have only good things to say about it, and when I got in a snit with a vendor over a the fit and finish of a domestic knife I bought, I offered to send him this knife for his inspection so he could see what a $90 knife should look like. He declined...
But take a look at this:
This image is a lot larger than the knife (it is only 4" and fairly slim), and I posted it that way so you can see that after a few years of work it hasn't even loosened up. Without the right light you can barely tell the difference between the springs and the liners. All of the cutting, slicing, and light prying this knife has done to all kinds of material, and it still snaps like a mousetrap and there isn't a bit of wobble on any of the blades. The scales were coal black and I thought they were some kind of Delrin or acrylic. Nope, they are the same kind of pakka wood used by Buck, etc., just dyed well all the way through. They are evenly scratched to a satin finish, but show no movement, shrinkage, or damage. This knife in all its stainless bolsters, blades, pins, springs and liners is a work knife through and through and it does that as well as the best of them. With reasonable care this knife will easily last my lifetime.
But I still love my OLD Case knives more, and always will. And I only have a few Pacific Rim knives. But I am the kind of guy that believes in getting what I pay for, regardless of price. So the question weighs heavy on me, "why can't I get the quality I want for $90 when I can get better for $12?" I think that if the offshore manufacturers continue on their path to consistent product quality (good, better than good, great, or which ever description fits best) they will continue to find their place in more and more pockets.
Robert
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I agree Robert, I think the spine shot reveals a great deal about the quality of construction in a slipjoint. I always feel far greater confidence in buying a vintage knife if the seller includes a pic of the back (they seldom do.) this is a Colt Gunstock, saber grind.
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[/IMG]
Note, no blade drop or under-blading (not sure of the correct term) which is not always the Case
even on high end knives. No blade wiggle either, as was the Case on an out of the box Peanut recently reviewed on this forum.
Greg
Note, no blade drop or under-blading (not sure of the correct term) which is not always the Case
even on high end knives. No blade wiggle either, as was the Case on an out of the box Peanut recently reviewed on this forum.Greg
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Here is a pattern that they call a 3 blade barlow for some reason. The fit and finish is pretty amazing, has a good strong set of three back springs, 1/2 stops on all three blades, 3 3/8ths closed.
Best regards
Robin
The dark line along the lower liner is a shadow not a gap, the scale has shrunk just enough to create the shadow.
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Best regards
Robin
The dark line along the lower liner is a shadow not a gap, the scale has shrunk just enough to create the shadow.
Will Power
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2007
- Messages
- 33,363
Exactly my experience too. And I live in Europe and get them from different dealers, can't actually think of a production knife that does offer such consistency with sharpness .
I'd have to agree as well. Every RR knife I've had was silly sharp out the box. I've only owned one knife which was sharper from new. That was a Spyderco Sage 2 Titanium, which was so sharp it was hard to imagine getting a knife any sharper.
However, there is a considerable difference in both price and blade steels....
However, there is a considerable difference in both price and blade steels....
black mamba
Gold Member
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- Oct 21, 2009
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- 23,078
I have purchased RRs from many different vendors, both on-line and in person at B&Ms, and it doesn't seem to make any difference, they're all sharp.
This Marbles 3-blade trapper (3.8" closed) was for years the sharpest knife I had ever bought, until a Spyderco S35VN Mule arrived.
The blades are a little redundant, all with the same belly, but a heck of a bargain at $19 shipped. It has very nice stag bone covers, too.
This Marbles 3-blade trapper (3.8" closed) was for years the sharpest knife I had ever bought, until a Spyderco S35VN Mule arrived.
The blades are a little redundant, all with the same belly, but a heck of a bargain at $19 shipped. It has very nice stag bone covers, too.