My experience of Benchmade quality control

You guys have to remember that the disgruntled will always be more vocal than the satisfied. For instance, most of the disgruntled customers were probably attracted to this topic the second it caught their eyes.

However, the satisfied customers are probably going to ignore this thread or just skim through it but never respond.

For the people who are being swayed by these "bad reps" on Benchmade, do your own research. Everything is subjective when it comes to "quality."

Cold Steel is another example. Despite the bad rep, many will admit the knives aren't terrible.
 
... Spyderco is a boutique manufacturer, in comparison to KershawBenchmade

Is "boutique" really the term you are looking for? A lot of words pop into my head for describing Spyderco, but that would not be one of them.

"Dictionary of Business Terms boutique: small, specialized shop that deals with a limited clientele and offers a limited product line."

Purely speaking, I guess it could apply...they only sell knives and knife related items, but thats true of most knife manufacturers.
If we're saying boutigue knife manufacturer, that doesn't seem to fit Spyderco, they offer a wide range of items across a pretty broad price spectrum. Certainly not a limited product line with limited clientele.
I would think it more applicable to someone like William Henry, who really is aiming for a relatively small nitch in the market.

I don;t know if the analogy works - Honda and Mercedes,

Probably not a perfect analogy, though if we are referencing Mercedes during the period of the Chrysler merger, the analogy for QC purposes is probably close. :D
 
I own mostly spydercos, benchmade, emerson and coldsteel. It's quite hard to believe, but none of my coldsteel has QC issue. For spyderco it's like i'll get 1 perfect one for every 2 bad knives. For benchmade it's slightly better.
This is what i get, but i don't blame the manufacturers. I prefer to put the blame on the dealers who ship them-shouldn't they check?
 
10 Benchmades (from 1996 through 2009 was the last) and 1 problem. A mini-Skirmish whose blade was off-center causing the edge to strike one of the barrel spacers upon closing. Quite a little knick in the blade, there was. I took it apart to verify the problem, sent it in to BM, and they repaired it and sent it back. It took them almost 3 weeks from the day I sent it, but I was satisfied.

Sharp they were, each and every one (maybe one was a little shy, I don;t recall now).

I had that exact same problem with a BM 610 Rukus.
 
I own mostly spydercos, benchmade and coldsteel. It's quite hard to believe, but none of my coldsteel has QC issue. For spyderco it's like i'll get 1 perfect one for every 2 bad knives. For benchmade it's slightly better.
This is what i get, but i don't blame the manufacturers. I prefer to put the blame on the dealers who ship them-shouldn't they check?

That is about my experience although with Benchmade, who we're discussing, I agree with a previous poster - give me a good sharpener, lock-tite and a torx driver and I'll hand you back a perfect example. YMMV! :)
 
I prefer to put the blame on the dealers who ship them-shouldn't they check?

You would sort of think they would....seems like it would save them and the customer a lot of hassle.

But inspection takes labor/time which is less profit on an item with a thin profit margin for most online dealers.
One problem is what do they inspect for? Some folks are picky about centering, others don't care. Some are picky about sharpness, others not so much, etc.
Another problem is that at some dealers, the person taking your order is seperate from the one pulling the stock and shipping.

I'm not aware of any dealer who routinely inspects prior to shipment, but many will be glad to do it if you ask and give them an idea what you're picky about.
I've had good luck going that route with New Graham and Knifeworks in particular and a few others.
 
We should remember, however, that Kershaw manages this pricing through means other companies either aren't capable of or don't desire to use.

The primary reason that Kershaw can offer such low prices is simple economies of scale. Manufacturers like Spyderco (and Benchmade, to a certain extent) do not compete directly with Kershaw anywhere other than on these forums; when was the last time you saw a Benchmade or Spyderco at Walmart or Dicks Sporting Goods? Spyderco is a boutique manufacturer, in comparison to Kershaw. Benchmade, I'd imagine, is somewhere in between but certainly not a competitor in Kershaw's market.

Another reason is the design of most mass produced Kershaws. The vast majority of Kershaw produced in any substantial amount are liner/frame locks as they are easier, and possibly cheaper, to manufacture than many competing locks. (Why do you think that makers first custom folders are liner locks?) Or look at the finish of most of the mass produced Kershaws: beadblast. Beadblasting is cheaper and faster than the finishing competitors use (stonewashing, ect.). The simple fact is that most of Kershaw's designs are dictated by financial efficiency.

I do understand what you are saying, and I do agree to some point... but there is a huge void between the cost saving measures, and the price at which Benchmade sells, and how the brand represents itself.

What I'm saying is that there should be a bottom line quality expectation based upon modern manufacturing techniques (which I feel is somewhere around kershaw, which is why I used them as an example).

My career is in industrial automation, manufacturing, and product engineering, and I quickly recognize the features which make Kershaw able to provide quality USA made knives at a reasonable price. In fact, I think it's why I'm drawn to them in the first place. I also recognized the superior quality present in many earlier Benchmades I've seen. On the flip side of the coin, I've also quickly recognized the drop in that quality in the recent past examples of Benchmade knives I've seen.


Stonewashing... It's a fancy name for vibratory finishing, which actually can be more cost effective than beadblasting in certain situations. It cuts the finishing process of a raw part from two steps down to one. Raw parts must be deburred prior to beadblasting, whereas the vibratory finishing process performs deburring and surface finishing in one step. Additionally, it can be done in very large batches and requires very little interaction from humans as far as monitoring and quality control; it is a very predictable process.

As an owner of a succesful manufacturing business, and also as a consultant to other manufacturing businesses, I can say that materials and production processes often are only a small portion of the overall cost of business. I have trouble recently, seeing where the difference is between a Kershaw and a Benchmade in cost, other than the name which is stamped (engraved) on the blade. I do understand that part of it may be in volume, or economies of scale as you mentioned, but that only applies to a certain point. There is a bottom line cost per unit at which economies of scale becomes irrelevant, and Benchmade is far above that line in my opinion.


As far as your comments regarding markets, I respectfully disagree. I have found that as a name, Benchmade is much more well known among the folks that I've encountered. Kershaw did manage to squeak itself into Walmart due to the reasons discussed above, but only a tiny fraction of their lineup is represented there, I'd say less than 5% on average.

In high end sporting goods shops, Benchmade is pushed much harder than I've ever seen with Kershaw.


The bottom line is that there is absolutely NO excuse for the quality issues we've seen in some Benchmade knives recently, considering the price point that the knives are selling at, and the techniques used in their production versus other knife brands. Part of the allure of the Benchmade name is their supposedly superior quality, which makes a lack in stringent quality control all the more upsetting.



edit: I'd also like to add... don't underestimate the power of the internet in this day and age. I would say that at least 9 out of 10 recent first time buyers of Benchmade knives I've encountered, made their purchases because they "read on the internet that Benchmade was the best". Most Kershaw buyers are people that appreciate quality and value, but I haven't seen nearly as strong of a grass roots or viral drive to purchase the Kershaw brand as I have with Benchmade.

Obviously that viral push for Benchmade is there for a reason... historically they have offered superior quality. What this thread is about, is that lately, they continue to be selling under that reputation but not always living up to it, once the product is in hand.

This is anecdotal evidence, and a single case, but it showcases my point perfectly- my old boss purchased a Benchmade about a year ago for several hundred dollars, because he had read on the internet about how wonderful they are... and he always has to have the best. He would NEVER consider buying a $30 Kershaw when there was a $250 Benchmade to be had, especially after what he read about their reputation for superior quality on the internet. He was thrilled with his Benchmade at first, but soon started complaining about the action degrading, and the knife's lack of edge-holding. Eventually he became disenchanted with the knife and stopped EDC'ing it. As an experiment, I bought him a Kershaw Skyline from Amazon for $30. He absolutely loves the knife and can't stop talking about how great it is, and how he can't believe the price. This is coming from a man with a similar background to mine... he's been in the precision manufacturing industry for four decades. He knows quality when he sees it.

you can't compare kershaw to benchmade its like comparing Honda to mercedes

Some of the Benchmades I've seen lately are more like comparing a Honda to a Honda with rims and spoiler.
 
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Benchmade has the best customer service of any knife company on the planet. The only other company that operates similarly in my experience, is Surefire, and Chris Reeve knives.

The only time I've ever had a problem with a Benchmade, they made it right. In fact they gave me a free knife for my troubles. Beat that. Some benchmade's come "dull" for many forumites tastes, but show me one that won't cut a tomato. Benchmade's are hand sharpened, and have working edges that last a long time, and are not fragile.

FYI my Sebenza didn't come ultra sharp either, certainly not Spyderco sharp. Benchmade is a fantastic company. No two ways about it.
 
Benchmade has the best customer service of any knife company on the planet. The only other company that operates similarly in my experience, is Surefire, and Chris Reeve knives.

The only time I've ever had a problem with a Benchmade, they made it right. In fact they gave me a free knife for my troubles. Beat that. Some benchmade's come "dull" for many forumites tastes, but show me one that won't cut a tomato. Benchmade's are hand sharpened, and have working edges that last a long time, and are not fragile.

FYI my Sebenza didn't come ultra sharp either, certainly not Spyderco sharp. Benchmade is a fantastic company. No two ways about it.

I don't disagree that Benchmade takes care of their customers... my main concern is that there is no reason that I can see for the degradation in quality control I've been seeing lately from a purely manufacturing related standpoint, and apparently many feel the same way. Benchmade knives have been my personal benchmark of quality for many years, and I sadly must say I'm no longer comfortable making that statement at this time.

I do understand that hand sharpening can cause discrepancies in edge quality from knife-to-knife, but on the other hand, assuming good steel quality, there is not a single knife that leaves my bench anything less than shaving sharp. That may be attributed to the fact that I've been hand sharpening machine tools daily for a couple decades, as I've seen other people have trouble sharpening their knives at that level.

I'm hoping this just has to do with growing pains, something to do with increasing popularity and their operation of a factory at beyond full capacity, combined with moving production back to the states and facility expansion. I sincerely hope that in a year or two, this will all be in the past, and I can once again hold their knives in the universally high regard I once did.

There was a time I would purchase a Benchmade knife sight unseen, and be 100% sure that what I recieved would be of the utmost quality. I can no longer say that I would be comfortable purchasing a Benchmade knife without holding it in my hand first. I find that upsetting.
 
I've only had sharpness issues with 3 out of 13 BMs. Pika, Vex and Presidio were the only culprits.
 
Benchmade has the best customer service of any knife company on the planet. The only other company that operates similarly in my experience, is Surefire, and Chris Reeve knives.

The only time I've ever had a problem with a Benchmade, they made it right. In fact they gave me a free knife for my troubles. Beat that.

Last time I had a problem they refused to help and offered to sell me a new knife instead. I did not buy a new knife from them. In fact, I don't plan on buying any of their knives anymore.

My most carried knife for the last few months is a BM5000. This knife is on indefinite loan from a friend who does not like it. Being a "black" class knife and $250 on BM's website, I'm appalled at the quality of the machining. Chatter (significant vibration of the CNC cutting tool) and marriage marks (From CNC machines cutting a circle or other curve one quadrant at a time and pausing while reading the program) on machined surfaces coupled with parts showing very loose tolerances (0.0010", in some places) is unacceptable for a knife of this price. Occasionally the auto system does not function. I assume it needs to be cleaned but I do not know how difficult it would be to reassemble. That said, the blade steel (154CM) has been great. Easy to sharpen, no chips or breaks. The hardware seems fine. The clip is fine and I like how low it rides but the clip does partially overlap a screw making it's positioning seem like an afterthought.

I trust this knife for most knife related tasks as well as for light prying and screwdriver work. It's not worth $250 though, not with these quality concerns. Not $200. Not $100. $75 would be my limit if I was interested in buying this knife.

It was very sharp new.
 
Cold Steel is another example. Despite the bad rep, many will admit the knives aren't terrible.

I'm a fan of some of CS's products and I own several of their knives. I find most of their stuff to be mall ninja silliness, though.

And where did they find the steel for the Peace Keeper II knives? Aluminum would take and hold a better edge...
 
Last time I had a problem they refused to help and offered to sell me a new knife instead. I did not buy a new knife from them. In fact, I don't plan on buying any of their knives anymore.

My most carried knife for the last few months is a BM5000. This knife is on indefinite loan from a friend who does not like it. Being a "black" class knife and $250 on BM's website, I'm appalled at the quality of the machining. Chatter (significant vibration of the CNC cutting tool) and marriage marks (From CNC machines cutting a circle or other curve one quadrant at a time and pausing while reading the program) on machined surfaces coupled with parts showing very loose tolerances (0.0010", in some places) is unacceptable for a knife of this price. Occasionally the auto system does not function. I assume it needs to be cleaned but I do not know how difficult it would be to reassemble. That said, the blade steel (154CM) has been great. Easy to sharpen, no chips or breaks. The hardware seems fine. The clip is fine and I like how low it rides but the clip does partially overlap a screw making it's positioning seem like an afterthought.

I trust this knife for most knife related tasks as well as for light prying and screwdriver work. It's not worth $250 though, not with these quality concerns. Not $200. Not $100. $75 would be my limit if I was interested in buying this knife.

It was very sharp new.

I am a machinist (amongst other things) and have noticed the same... substandard surface finish and machining tolerance control in manufacturing of recent benchmade knives. Not acceptable.
 
Right. If I pull finished parts out of my machine with features and dimensional issues like these I get to send them to the recyclers as scrap steel.
 
Right. If I pull finished parts out of my machine with features and dimensional issues like these I get to send them to the recyclers as scrap steel.

If I pulled parts out like that... I would get laughed out of the shop by the other machinists. :D

I've always worked in prototyping, as a function of my field in industrial automation. Some of the other guys I work with have been in high tolerance production shops, which is a whole different ballgame. That said, my parts come out dead nuts, always... and if they don't, like you said, it's the trash bin.
 
I have over thirty Axis Lock Benchmades and few fixed blades.

Over the years I have found them to be excellent products. There have been some minor issues, most of which I could rectify with some Torx drivers, Loctite and sharpening kit.
I had to return a couple of knives to the dealer or direct to Benchmade and in those cases I was very well looked after.

However in the last 18 months or so I have noticed that the product has taken a dip in quality.
My concerns are the scratchy and uneven grinding, blunt tips and roughly finished pocket clips. I really don't like way they are adding the edge bevel.

Not long ago I could reliably take a brand new Mini Grip out of its box, run it down the flats of the white Sharpmaker stones at 40 degrees (combined) setting and raise a clean uniform burr straight away. A couple of passes and a quick strop and that knife would be ready to go into my pocket.

When I now buy a new Benchmade I fully expect to have to reprofile an ugly steep bevel when I take the knife out of the box.
For people that can competently sharpen a knife it's not a massive issue, but I can see that it will put people who are new to collecting and sharpening knives off Benchmade.
 
A big step forward in selecting a good Benchmade example is just that - select it yourself. Pay the few extra bucks and support your local store - buy your knives where you can look them over before they are your's. You may find out that an Onslaught isn't for you. Additionally, my 755 MPR grew on me - after a few stops at the pusher's. It has become second only to the 630 Skirmish in my favorite BM list.

Sure, you can save a few bucks by buying mail-order - but, in most cases, it's your 'problem', good or bad. This is especially true of certain knife examples - even accepted as excellent quality knives - like CRK. A case in point - my purchase last September commemorating my first SS retirement check. It had to be special... I thought I wanted a large Sebbie. I went to the local CRK & Wm Henry yuppee emporium... and fondled several examples... ho hum. Then, I picked up an Umnumzaan - nice - but the scale design did nothing for me. I saw the new Wilson Combat 'zaan on the CRK forum here - and opened the store that Monday. It was/is/shall be - my standard for comparison. I have bought folders since then - Benchmades! That same store has had decent prices on such. Check your local guy out... see if he'll meet other prices.

Now, about Hondas... wait a few months and you can see some of their engines not last 500 miles. And... Mercedes quality? Some M-B's are made right here in Alabama! Yeee-haaa!! Hmmm, my Jeep was made during the Daimler ownership... Actually, it has been totally trouble-free... as has every Benchmade I've bought. Machining problems? I have never seen a BM with one. The uniformally sharpest knives I have ever bought are Bokers, Bucks, and Kershaws. Okay, my latest production Bokers - a Haddock and Titan Worker, list $279 & $379 respectively, both came new with wire edges present - easily honed away - but, at those prices, why is that necessary? My previous Boker buys - Boker Tree Brand classic slippies - have all been razors - and perfect - and listed for $55-$90. Had the two dull ones been bought first, additional purchases would have been unlikely. Try to buy locally.

Stainz
 
One good thing about these threads: knifemakers pay attention. I don;t know if BM reps and company managers read every post, but I am confident they are watching. These kinds of comments found here make their way back to companies....that's how they remain in good standing - they pay attention.

Several times in this forum you will see knifemakers step into a thread and make a comment about the reason their knife is this way or that. Now, you don;t see a relatively "large" company like Benchmade stepping in, but the "news" of problems is reaching them. Have you ever seen Mike Snody jump into one of these threads when one of his designs is mentioned? I have. Others are reading too, so that's good.
 
This is anecdotal evidence, and a single case, but it showcases my point perfectly- my old boss purchased a Benchmade about a year ago for several hundred dollars, because he had read on the internet about how wonderful they are... and he always has to have the best. He would NEVER consider buying a $30 Kershaw when there was a $250 Benchmade to be had, especially after what he read about their reputation for superior quality on the internet. He was thrilled with his Benchmade at first, but soon started complaining about the action degrading, and the knife's lack of edge-holding. Eventually he became disenchanted with the knife and stopped EDC'ing it. As an experiment, I bought him a Kershaw Skyline from Amazon for $30. He absolutely loves the knife and can't stop talking about how great it is, and how he can't believe the price. This is coming from a man with a similar background to mine... he's been in the precision manufacturing industry for four decades. He knows quality when he sees it.



Some of the Benchmades I've seen lately are more like comparing a Honda to a Honda with rims and spoiler.

What you basically showcased is that quality doesn't necessarily have to come with a high price tag..:thumbup:
 
You guys have to remember that the disgruntled will always be more vocal than the satisfied. For instance, most of the disgruntled customers were probably attracted to this topic the second it caught their eyes.
However, the satisfied customers are probably going to ignore this thread or just skim through it but never respond.

Probably valid.
The satisfied customer who has bought one and isn't really interested in a second purchase probably won't care.
One would expect some of the frustrated buyers to be more interested in the subject.
However, an even larger group of frustrated buyers are those who have bought one unsatisfactory item and will never buy another from that company. The size of that group is hard to determine, but is known to exist and concerns any company that cares about selling their products, which is why many companies have stringent QC procedures to avoid loosing those first-time customers and getting them to return for a second purchase.

...I also recognized the superior quality present in many earlier Benchmades I've seen. On the flip side of the coin, I've also quickly recognized the drop in that quality in the recent past examples of Benchmade knives I've seen....

...The bottom line is that there is absolutely NO excuse for the quality issues we've seen in some Benchmade knives recently, considering the price point that the knives are selling at, and the techniques used in their production versus other knife brands. Part of the allure of the Benchmade name is their supposedly superior quality, which makes a lack in stringent quality control all the more upsetting....

Obviously that viral push for Benchmade is there for a reason... historically they have offered superior quality. What this thread is about, is that lately, they continue to be selling under that reputation but not always living up to it, once the product is in hand.

:thumbup: Exactly!
BM markets their products as being FAR above the average and in recent years has failed in achieving that. In my obsevations a great deal of that decline is due to the poor or non-existent QC.
The straw that finally broke this camels back was when I had to return a GOLD class knife for exchange. The way the GOLD class is described and PRICED by BM, I think one has a right to expect a perfect example every time...period!
 
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