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My experience with a rude South Afican knife maker.
- Thread starter Jaklas
- Start date
The title was changed to rude from unethical, but in the first sentence the unethical remains. It does not excuse a person if he doesn’t know the difference between unethical/rude. He made an allegation on a public forum towards another person. The problem with social media is that anyone can say anything, without any proof.
I am sure knife makers took note of this post and will be very careful to deal with this OP in the future.
I am sure knife makers took note of this post and will be very careful to deal with this OP in the future.
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How this thread should have looked: OP: "Just wanted to let everyone know that dealing with Andre van Heerden was a most unpleasant experience. He was rude and short and generally unhelpful when responding to questions I had about an order." Maker or his BFF: "Sorry to hear that you felt that way. Give us a call and we'll do our best to make things right." OP: "Will do, thanks." Thread closed.
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Bingo. Nail on the head.
Yeah that would be the fairy tail version for sure. However, there’s a lot of backstory that isn’t being provided and this thread is all being based on the OP’s so called “facts” which are limited at best.
I’m guessing we aren’t going to get the whole email chain of events, call logs, etc showing both sides of the story.
As far as the comment about the customer always being right, that statement is always quoted by customers. Funny how that works ain’t it?
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No, not the "fairy tale" version - the adult version.
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- Feb 28, 2011
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Do we need to see all that? Even the hardcore supporters of the maker seem to agree he can be abrasive.
No law against being the prickliest pear in the cactus patch. If you alienate all your friends, dealer, and potential customers that's on you.
What always puzzles me about these is with all the makers out there when you get some one who's unhappy with a maker and wants to tell the world how awful the whole thing was the still want the knife. No mater how much they state they dislike and disagree and flat on must share their distaste for this awful awful person the still want to give the guy their money. That goes beyond cognitive dissonance.
And as I love to quote. "The customer is always right; that's what people like about us". Which might be deeply ironic.
Ok, the “adult” could have just walked away instead of throwing a fit over it. Calling the Knife Guild hoping to get the maker in trouble somehow? Then signing up on Blade Forums to start this thread? Sheesh, sounds like a kid running to the teacher because another kid wouldn’t let them play with a ball. No wonder Andre cancelled the order.
No, at this stage I guess we don’t need to see all that but just because the maker can be abrasive, it doesn’t mean that the OP played no part in facilitating the way he was dealt with, which is the role he’s playing.
But he’s gone now and over it. That’s good that he found peace with the situation, it’s probably better for both parties.
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Yup. No laws against it and OP may have, at least to some degree, brought it on himself. But that's what we would really need to see evidence of. Someone saying, "Dude was rude as hell," and a bunch of others sounding off to say he can be like that seems pretty solid for prima facie evidence.
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- Jun 16, 2003
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I have the full email chain. Andre sent it to me. At no time was Andre short or rude to the OP by e-mail. that is the reason that the OP cannot show written evidence, as there is none.
The e-mail chain shows that the OP's order was placed and accepted on the 2nd of May and he was quoted a 6-12 month lead time. On the 21st of June he began harassing Andre about when his knife would be complete.
That's 7 weeks later with the Blade Show in-between........ Andre's biggest show of the year! The OP then called Andre at night on his cell to harass him about when the knife would be complete. Andre then got upset and told him that the order was cancelled.
Now we all love knives and we all want our stuff quickly. But there are boundaries and this guy crossed them.
His only complaint about Andre by his own admission is Andre finally said...."Don't call me again I am very busy"
No swearing or ranting just that. The OP feelings and ego were bruised and he decided to get his revenge any way he could.
Andre's communication is very to the point. You won't engage him in long discussions about orders. Its usually just a few lines about which model and materials you want but he is very civil and professional.
The fact that the OP was the customer does not give him license to harass anyone at night 5 months before the minimum time elapsed for his knife to be built. Sometimes the customer is wrong.
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He's your buddy and even you went with, "doesn't tolerate fools," and now you're claiming he's always civil. Pick a story.
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Foghorn Leghorn Fan
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We have had more then a couple of couple threads here regarding Arrogant / Rude Knife makers and letting other member know of potential issues is what GBU is for, and often members disagree on what constitutes poor behavior etc. etc. .
But.......
The OP contacted a Knife Guild to complain about a members rudeness ? RUDENESS?
This is called being a tattletale, and the OP should be shunned for such unacceptable behavior.
But.......
The OP contacted a Knife Guild to complain about a members rudeness ? RUDENESS?
This is called being a tattletale, and the OP should be shunned for such unacceptable behavior.
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- Jun 16, 2003
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Some customers regard how they are treated, good or bad, as a material part of the experience of ordering a custom or bench-made knife. Some professional groups are quite interested in such issues, regarding it as part of their remit to guard the reputation of their profession.
"Tattletale"? Really? Then the opposite is true? No more comments about being treated nicely - or not? Or only positives? "The Adequate, the Good, and the Wonderful" forum? I think not.
I bought one knife from a SA smith - Stuart Smith. Good deal.
I have no idea how this deal went. Only the first-hand testimony of the OP and the hearsay of the accused maker's friend.
I would tend to judge Andre with how he treats me. One data point is not a lot.
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I feel I have to weigh in here and state a few things
1st of all the Op lives in South Africa. He does not speak Afrikaans nor any of the African languages thus his 1st language is English so trying to hide behind comprehension and vocabulary for using the word unethical is nonsense. I actually find it very ironic that he uses unethical here. He is the same person who wrote a bogus email to Kizer knives complaining how a knife was off center and such nonsense, which it was not and it was not even a new knife but 2nd hand. He then pestered them so much with his lies that they sent him a new knife. He then tried to spin me a tale about how he bought it wants to sell it again. Now that is unethical, telling lies to get a knife for free and then try and sell it. This is the same person who has a pilot friend, flies him knives into South Africa, avoids taxes, vat and duties. That is also unethical. But enough about ethics. Let's move on.
It is not just Andre that snubbed this person with orders. There is quite few South African makers who won't accept an order from the OP. Main reason being that he pesters you, always wants to argue about the price and then changes his order more than I change my underwear.
The OP is also the kind of person who would post on IG on the makers post how the knife is too expensive and then later try and contact the maker and order a knife? So publicly he likes to moan but then personally still wants one? I do not understand that one but can anyone blame a maker or makers if word about an individual like this spreads and they then don't want to take their orders
One last point. The OP kept pestering Andre, numerous emails and even phoned at odd hours demanding an A2 in 7 weeks. When Andre then sent him away, because of the constant pestering he contacted the guild. After the 1st guild contact did not give him satisfaction, as his claims are bogus, he contacted a 2nd and 3rd. The 3rd person he contacted then made contact with Andre and after hearing both sides the guild decided not to get involved as Andre was It in the wrong at all. This was based on both sides of the story with relevant information provided where needed.
It is clear that the OP does not realised that it is his behavior that caused the cancelation and the so called rude behavior. By contacting a maker, then 3 of the guild leaders and then finally coming here to voice his opinion it should be clear for all to see that the OP has an axe to grind. He has gone through the correct channels, it was found that Andre was not in the wrong and then in to here.
I am not a knife maker, still learning, but even I have blocked this individual on my phone. He will pester you to death, I have 1st hand experience about this and I am not the only one. I know quite a few of the bigger collectors in South Africa and all of them has blocked this individual.
I know this seems like a rant on my side but I had to comment when I saw a makers name being dragged through the mud when the did nothing wrong. All the maker did was cancel the order after being pestered constantly and I do not blame him
1st of all the Op lives in South Africa. He does not speak Afrikaans nor any of the African languages thus his 1st language is English so trying to hide behind comprehension and vocabulary for using the word unethical is nonsense. I actually find it very ironic that he uses unethical here. He is the same person who wrote a bogus email to Kizer knives complaining how a knife was off center and such nonsense, which it was not and it was not even a new knife but 2nd hand. He then pestered them so much with his lies that they sent him a new knife. He then tried to spin me a tale about how he bought it wants to sell it again. Now that is unethical, telling lies to get a knife for free and then try and sell it. This is the same person who has a pilot friend, flies him knives into South Africa, avoids taxes, vat and duties. That is also unethical. But enough about ethics. Let's move on.
It is not just Andre that snubbed this person with orders. There is quite few South African makers who won't accept an order from the OP. Main reason being that he pesters you, always wants to argue about the price and then changes his order more than I change my underwear.
The OP is also the kind of person who would post on IG on the makers post how the knife is too expensive and then later try and contact the maker and order a knife? So publicly he likes to moan but then personally still wants one? I do not understand that one but can anyone blame a maker or makers if word about an individual like this spreads and they then don't want to take their orders
One last point. The OP kept pestering Andre, numerous emails and even phoned at odd hours demanding an A2 in 7 weeks. When Andre then sent him away, because of the constant pestering he contacted the guild. After the 1st guild contact did not give him satisfaction, as his claims are bogus, he contacted a 2nd and 3rd. The 3rd person he contacted then made contact with Andre and after hearing both sides the guild decided not to get involved as Andre was It in the wrong at all. This was based on both sides of the story with relevant information provided where needed.
It is clear that the OP does not realised that it is his behavior that caused the cancelation and the so called rude behavior. By contacting a maker, then 3 of the guild leaders and then finally coming here to voice his opinion it should be clear for all to see that the OP has an axe to grind. He has gone through the correct channels, it was found that Andre was not in the wrong and then in to here.
I am not a knife maker, still learning, but even I have blocked this individual on my phone. He will pester you to death, I have 1st hand experience about this and I am not the only one. I know quite a few of the bigger collectors in South Africa and all of them has blocked this individual.
I know this seems like a rant on my side but I had to comment when I saw a makers name being dragged through the mud when the did nothing wrong. All the maker did was cancel the order after being pestered constantly and I do not blame him