My experience with a rude South Afican knife maker.

Are you people being deliberately obtuse in that thread? The guy clearly doesn't know what "unethical" means. Not sure why we are picking on a foreigner who merely wants to report that he feels he was treated rudely.

Yes, yes, I know he overreacted. Why is he being called a liar?
I don't think anyone called him a liar.
 
Are you people being deliberately obtuse in that thread? The guy clearly doesn't know what "unethical" means. Not sure why we are picking on a foreigner who merely wants to report that he feels he was treated rudely.

Yes, yes, I know he overreacted. Why is he being called a liar?
I never called him a liar.
Being rude or having a disagreeable manor/attitude/personality, is not unethical IMO. Not advisable or acceptable to many people, but not unethical. Poor communication and shoddy workmanship is done at their own peril. Word will spread and their reputation will suffer, but so long as they otherwise conduct themselves ethically, all one can do is relate their experience and "vote" with their dollars.
A maker snubbing you or telling you to "get lost" or being mean to you is not unethical.
Call him rude, call him unprofessional, but not unethical.
 
Still, danbot, it is very clear that the issue of ethics is not actually the topic of this thread. As has been said many times, the OP is not a native English speaker, as myself and other have pointed out several times among the first responses. It was very clear from his first post that all he was accusing anyone of was rudeness. He has repeatedly asked for what the correct term should be.

If you engage him on this issue of ethics you are either being obtuse or ... I don't know what. There are no other options that are any better or less insulting.
 
Am I misrepresenting your accusation? You think he's telling the truth about wanting nothing more than to spread his experience? Or is he extorting someone?
Shades of grey ethics class.

The model of trying to create a social media firestorm to swing or reverse an unfavorable decision is a modern pox. It could definitely be categorized as extortion.

Is the OP a liar? Hard to say; though some conflicting information is posted there's no way to vet that information.

The OP regardless of any language barrier is passive aggressive to the point of being a cartoon. And you know what they say about quacks and ducks.
 
Still, danbot, it is very clear that the issue of ethics is not actually the topic of this thread. As has been said many times, the OP is not a native English speaker, as myself and other have pointed out several times among the first responses. It was very clear from his first post that all he was accusing anyone of was rudeness. He has repeatedly asked for what the correct term should be.

If you engage him on this issue of ethics you are either being obtuse or ... I don't know what. There are no other options that are any better or less insulting.
When I first replied to this thread I was going by the title and how he described his problem. I did not intend to be insulting or obtuse.
I do admit I found it a little hard to follow though.
 
Still, danbot, it is very clear that the issue of ethics is not actually the topic of this thread. As has been said many times, the OP is not a native English speaker, as myself and other have pointed out several times among the first responses. It was very clear from his first post that all he was accusing anyone of was rudeness. He has repeatedly asked for what the correct term should be.

If you engage him on this issue of ethics you are either being obtuse or ... I don't know what. There are no other options that are any better or less insulting.
Stating someone is "unethical" because they don't believe the customer is always right is in essence unethical when the intent is to harm the business or reputation of the second party.

Further when a GBU thread is written to be a zero sum game it tends to backfire on the person starting the thread.

Far too many threads with essence of "hai guyz just wanted to warn you" made by people with an axe to grind about a non-issue. Of course that's just my opinion.
 
He quacks nothing like an extortionist or a liar. He quacks like a guy who wanted to buy a knife, was told no, and now wants to complain about it.
Disagree. Anytime someone invites me to join them in yelling "I Am Spartacus" they get a downvote.
 
He quacks nothing like an extortionist or a liar. He quacks like a guy who wanted to buy a knife, was told no, and now wants to complain about it.

Actually he was told yes and the order was accepted. It was his behaviour after that which led to the order being cancelled.
 
Not sure what relevance Andre van Heerden's nationality is in all of this. Since we've already gotten the OP to change the thread title from 'unethical' to 'rude' could we maybe also ask him to drop the reference to SA? I don't see any threads saying I had such and such experience with an American knifemaker.
 
Bloody South Africans..... ;)

If a maker is in a position to end a transaction, before it will leave either party "out something" (the maker time/materials or the buyer dollars), believing that either parties expectations may not be met along the way, then they should end it. If more makers did so (and customers as well) I think there would end up about 50% less GBU threads on this forum !!!
 
Sounds like Van Heerden was a bit of a jackass, but not unethical. With the correction to the thread title I'm mystified by the level of butthurt some forum members seem to be intently displaying.

Side Note: If someone is your best friend and brother you might wanna tell them to keep a civil tongue in their head or someone's gonna have an issue and bring it up on the internet.
 
By the way I am not a fanboy. Andre van Heerden is one of my closest friends. We travel together, socialise together and I consider him a brother from another mother.

Honestly, for better or worse that kind of makes your opinion of him irrelevant for the purposes of discussing his business style. How someone treats their close friends isn't necessarily indicative of how they treat strangers or customers.

I tried to place an order with him a while back, and after several email exchanges I clearly got the impression that he'd much prefer I just buy a ready-made knife of his from a reseller, rather than custom ordering one. Which is fine - a lot of makers are moving to the model where they don't take individual orders, but sell ready-made knives either individually (e.g., via Instagram) or through dealers.

The OP's story seems to be a different issue, but I still wouldn't recommend AdH to someone for ordering a custom knife. Ready-made from a dealer, sure, that's fine.

Off-topic side note: is it just me or do a lot of South African makers seem to make very similar knives. I know van Heerden learned knifemaking from Thorburn; did others like Blomerus learn from him, too?
 
I Still have all My EmAils .

^ How convenient!
All you have, are emails, which you sent (& not a single one from Andre corroborating your allegations of his so called "rudeness"); as well as a phone conversation with Andre, where you claim, he behaved rudely toward you??? :rolleyes:

No matter How big a knife maker Andre is I don't care , I have expose his rudeness,mods you may now close this treat. I am satisfied with the awareness I have created. Thank you all.

^ As far as I'm concerned, you've haven't exposed anything.

Your order was placed on the 2nd of May. On the 21st of June you began asking for your knife. That's 7 weeks!
No-one can make a knife that quickly especially when the Blade Show is in that time period as well.
Andre then decided after your badgering to cancel your order and move on as he knows from experience that dealing with someone like you will not end well.

You never sent him any money and you never received a knife. Your order was cancelled by Andre as is his right. He gets to choose who he does business with.

Since then you have hounded many local (South African) knifemakers complain about price delivery etc.....
Well guess what, the word is out amongst the SA makers. Good luck ordering knives going forward.

My reputation was built over three decades, you managed to destroy yours in a few months.


A few years ago another butt-sore customer came onto BF complaint that one of the well known dealers had blocked him from his sales website. It turns out that like you he was a pain in the ass to deal with and the dealer cut his losses and moved on as was his right. He took some flak for it but it is his right who he does business with, just like it is Andre's right not to sell to you.

^ :thumbsup: Andre made the right call! :thumbsup::thumbsup:


Steven is a fool strait out and the knife makers gluids puppy.

^ Your true colors/personality, have shined though crystal clear here.
It's evident to me, why, Andre no longer wanted to conduct any further business with you.

"Don't call me again I am very busy"

You started this a thread because of this, & because he cancelled your order? :thumbsdown:

I will end it now and move on .

I am moving on from this maker an treat now . I will not be replying to this treat anymore .

Will share my other knife journeys with you guys . Thank you

^ You keep stating this...but here you are, unable to let it go; redundantly carrying on with your personal vendetta. :thumbsdown::thumbsdown: Thanks to the Ignore function here, after this thread has concluded, I won't ever be reading another word you post here. :) :thumbsup:


Agreed . Well he definitely lost my support. And hopefully this post makes others awair of his conduct. Maby he needs to loose support to get a reality check because if it's not for us knife nuts hel basically be with out a job.

^ Andre, will be just fine...without you. :)


This is an interesting post. You have accused a very reputable knife maker of unethical behaviour based on the fact that you found his sales manner abrasive.............?

My advice to makers who read this is to avoid the OP like the plague. Lest you also end up here for no valid reason.

^ :thumbsup::thumbsup:

So before you try an be peace keeper here with no konologue of the matter lay back and enjoy some popcorn . I don't need more of your negitive input here

You should practice doing some "introspection," reframing type skills.
You seem to feel that you should be the only person allowed to spread their ugly negativity in this very unnecessary (IMO), thread you started.

And I will continue posting my experiences on makers that I buy knifes from and my experience with them . I feel that this is a mechanism of keeping the knife community honest at its least . My experience with other makers had made me look past this an realize that the said maker in question is not the only maker of knifes.

^ See! Something positive has come out of this experience! :D
But you've seem to have failed miserably, "looking past this."


And please stop insulting customers with words such as Butsore etc etc we are not of the same class like you . Customers actually have integrity an dignity that needs to be respected . You very vulgar . It seems as You in the right click. And that's all I have to says to Andres spokes person. Lol

^ Kind of hypocritical, wouldn't you say? < You own word's: "Steven is a fool strait out and the knife makers gluids puppy."


OP: It's crystal clear- you hold a very deep, bitter, personal vendetta, regarding this experience you shared with one of South Africa's highly reputable custom knife maker's. He doesn't want to do business with. My advice to you: just deal with it, & move on! :)

If you behaved anywhere near like you've behaved here, during your phone conversation with Andre, it's no wonder, why he decided to distance himself from you and sever ties with you.

I have no doubt in my mind, that there was more than one party behaving rudely, during your phone conversation.
 
Back
Top