My first Glock

okbohn said:
As everyone else said, you can't go wrong with a Glock. I have a 19 (9mm) and it is my favorite handgun hands down. I have 1911s, but the Glock is my go to gun. I just wish they made the smaller version with a single stack and a little thinner. If they did, I'd get rid of my Kahr.
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Glock 36 is a small single stack .45.
 
FireInvestigator said:
You gotta be kidding me. Glocks are "cute". I think they'd make better doorstops. Nothing (esp. a Glock) can compare to a 1911. Dont hate me ladies, just my opinion. ;) Sorry, could only read so much glock love before my fingers took over. seriously, enjoy your glocks.
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I have shot a lot of different brands of 1911's and none can compare to a Sig. Glocks are pretty ugly in my book, I prefer a Springfield XD to a Glock but Glocks are definitely good performers. In terms of stopping power a 1911 is not going to even come close to matching a Glock 20. If I was carrying a 1911 45 though it would be a Kimber or a Para Ordinance P-14. I like my 1911's I just never CC them. I prefer my 5" 45 XD due to mag capacity. I guess each of us has a different opinion of what is the best. :p
 
I don't understand carrying a subcompact pistol and then putting a full size grip on it. :confused:

Then again I carried a G20 concealed for years.
 
ashtxsniper said:
I have shot a lot of different brands of 1911's and none can compare to a Sig. Glocks are pretty ugly in my book, I prefer a Springfield XD to a Glock but Glocks are definitely good performers. In terms of stopping power a 1911 is not going to even come close to matching a Glock 20. If I was carrying a 1911 45 though it would be a Kimber or a Para Ordinance P-14. I like my 1911's I just never CC them. I prefer my 5" 45 XD due to mag capacity. I guess each of us finds has a different opinion of what is the best. :p
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According to the infamous FBI tests done after the Miami FBI shootout who's results can be seen at Firearms Tactical website the 10mm had a slight advantage in penitration in ballistic gelatin over the .45 caliber rounds availabile at the time.
Against a human with modern hollowpoints the .45 probabily has a slight advantage in stopping power as it has a larger metplate "frontal area" and more mass.
The FBI judged the .45 's penetration sufficient and it along with 10mm were allowed for carry.
Reguardless they're very close in stopping power and the .45 has less muzzle blast and less muzzle flip.
The rounds are cheaper as well.
The bullets are better now as well for the .45
The 10mm protection rounds have not advanced as far but the hunting rounds "Hardcast"far surpass the .45 for hunting large game.
I'll add with a 1911 you can change out your top end and recoil spring and shoot .460 Roland if you need more power.
This allows .44 magnum power out of old slab sides.
Not that you need more power for defencive use.
The .45 has the perfect balance of power and controllability.
It has a proven record with hardball in several wars.
With a modern round like Speer Gold dot Plus P 230 grain HP it's awesome.
Much better than a through and through .40 cal hole.

How can you compare a crisp 3 or 4 pound short pull trigger to that lawyer designed nightmare double/single long and heavy trigger pull on a Sig?
Very few if any shooting sport competitors use the Sig for that reason.
When speed and accurary count nothing beats a good 1911.
Not only is it more accurate,it's easier to shoot accurately.
Especially under stress.


"Two to the body,one to the head.
Make sure that Moth#r Fu#cker's dead."
 
Sig has a competition line of handguns. In fact one of there models they claim will consistently hold 2" groups at 50 yds. I have never seen a 1911 that was as reliable or durable as a Sig handgun. All of my Sig handguns have very smooth light triggers. There are a lot of guns that will outperform 1911's as far as speed and accuracy. Another thing is most modern handguns have a lot higher mag capacity. Like I said everyone has there opinions. I wonder why most leo's don't carry 1911's since are the "best". Your stats are correct for the low recoil 10mm rounds. A full power hollow point 10mm puts out 700 ft lbs of energy and I have seen them loaded to around 1000 ft lbs of energy. Most 45 acp loads generate 380-450 ft lbs of energy and 45 acp +p ammo at around 450-550 ft lbs. The stats you have are for the FBI's low recoil round. 45acp will never even close to the performance of 10mm.
 
ashtxsniper said:
I wonder why most leo's don't carry 1911's since are the "best".
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Have you seen leos shoot? :eek: Now I am going back a while but most of them were really terrible. Also most of the military shot the .45 like crap also. Mostly because of improper training. Before I get reamed I will say that I have not shoot against a leo in a while and I believe that they are much better trained but I can't verify that.

KR
 
Most people cannot shoot well.

These same people THINK they shoot great.

Some of these people are also cops.

.
 
ashtxsniper,
Well, I know plenty of LEO's who carry 1911's. Most Tactical Teams on the West Coast all the way through your state of Texas carry 1911's. I know that those who dont carry them WANT to. Why dont more large Depts carry them? Well, they are not Idiot proof.Enter legal reasons and huge politically correct B.S., Thats why. They used to be standard issue. I dont think cops can be used as a test all for what the 'best pistol is'.

You like Sigs. Cool. I like them. Fine weapon, really! Much better then a glock. Carried one for years(But, I HAD to), a P220. You bring up Sigs line of Competition series, I thought we were talking about carry guns and glocks? You lost me.

Just like Jeff Cooper said, you are fixing a problem that doesnt exist.(in reference to double action)

Lemme get this straight.... You can outshoot a single action auto with a double action auto? Wow! Apples to apples I have never heard that. Defies physics.

As far as dependability issues... I dont know what is wrong with your 1911's (I am honest here, I am NOT a gunsmith), and I dont know what 1911's you own. I've have everything jam on me once for one issue or another. Except my Custom 1911's. Ammo is usually up there as the culprit. My 1911's are not fired until I can cycle 50 empty,fired casings through it. Thats my test and most 1911 gunsmiths are well versed in this request.

I learn something new everyday, I really do. I am not brand specific. I dont know everything. I can tell you that for 20+ plus years of running around with a badge and a gun I have never heard anyone who owns both glocks and 1911's pick a glock over a 1911. So there, I learned something new today. Will it affect me? No. Do I carry my Custom Colt Delta Elite in 10mm? No. I hunt with it. (Wild Boar). Just because you like glocks and I like 1911's really doesnt mean much when you think about it. I dont want to be on the recieving end of either. ;)

Here is a secret, wanna know which pistol outside of a .45 1911 that I think is the worlds best defensive handgun for MOST people?... Thats easy, Browning 9mm Hi Power. Sweet gun. Fits both little hands and big hands, little felt recoil. Solid. Hell, John Browning designed it too.
 
ashtxsniper said:
Sig has a competition line of handguns. In fact one of there models they claim will consistently hold 2" groups at 50 yds. I have never seen a 1911 that was as reliable or durable as a Sig handgun. All of my Sig handguns have very smooth light triggers. There are a lot of guns that will outperform 1911's as far as speed and accuracy. Another thing is most modern handguns have a lot higher mag capacity. Like I said everyone has there opinions. I wonder why most leo's don't carry 1911's since are the "best". Your stats are correct for the low recoil 10mm rounds. A full power hollow point 10mm puts out 700 ft lbs of energy and I have seen them loaded to around 1000 ft lbs of energy. Most 45 acp loads generate 380-450 ft lbs of energy and 45 acp +p ammo at around 450-550 ft lbs. The stats you have are for the FBI's low recoil round. 45acp will never even close to the performance of 10mm.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol


The M1911A1 design is favored by a large number of police SWAT teams throughout the United States. Many military and law enforcement organizations in the United States and many other countries continue to use (often modified) M1911A1 pistols because they favor the theoretically greater stopping power of the .45 cartridge and the superior handling of the weapon in close fighting.[citation needed] Marine Force Recon, Los Angeles Police Department Special Weapons and Tactics, the FBI Hostage Rescue Team and 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment - Delta (Delta Force) are among them. The Tacoma, WA Police Department made history in 2001 by becoming the first metropolitan police department in nearly 50 years to adopt the 1911 as its official carry weapon. The Tacoma Police Department selected the Kimber Pro Carry II or Pro Carry II HD as optional, department supplied weapons available to its officers.[2]
 
FireInvestigator said:
Just like Jeff Cooper said, you are fixing a problem that doesnt exist.(in reference to double action)
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The actual quote is: "An ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."


Lemme get this straight.... You can outshoot a single action auto with a double action auto? Wow! Apples to apples I have never heard that. Defies physics.
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It's been done twice: Ernie Langdon outshot Rob Leatham's 1911 at an IDPA Nationals a couple years ago using a Sig 220.

2006 USPSA Nationals, Dave Sevigny outshot Rob Leatham's 1911 based gun using a Glock ! :eek:

So, there's two times a 1911 has been bested by a DA and "safe action" gun, but out of countless attempts to do so. It speaks more to the skill of those shooters than anything else.

Could Joe Schmuck with a DA gun expect to outshoot a similarly skilled Joe Sixpack using a 1911 ? Nope.

.
 
ashtxsniper said:
........one of there models they claim will consistently hold 2" groups at 50 yds. I have never seen a 1911 that was as reliable or durable as a Sig handgun.......... .
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There are quite a few 1911's that will hold 2" or better at 50yds. Find me a shooter that can hold that well.;)
As far as reliable or durable. How about a Kimber series 1 Ultra Carry (officers size, aluminum frame) with 15k plus rounds on stock parts- MIM and all(except recoil springs)? How about a Les Baer Thunder Ranch with close to 40k on stock parts(once again, except recoil springs)? Those are just two examples I can provide with guns I own/have owned. My TRS was sold to a friend who has run another 15k plus. Thats over 55K at this point and still going. Stoppages? I can count them on one hand. They were a result of a crappy mag. I recently put over 500 rounds down the pipe of my Kimber in one range outing with ZERO malfunctions. No cleaning, no re-oiling.....just shooting.
Shall I continue?
 
I really like my Glock 21, love my Kimber Gold Match but I take my CZ 97B with me every time I go the range.... And it shoots as well as either of them.
 
going back to Glox........

The true value, the true "beauty" of a Glock is..........

It's pure utilitarian, who-gives-a-crap nature. It's a tool, nothing more.

.
 
FireInvestigator said:
ashtxsniper,
Well, I know plenty of LEO's who carry 1911's. Most Tactical Teams on the West Coast all the way through your state of Texas carry 1911's. I know that those who dont carry them WANT to. Why dont more large Depts carry them? Well, they are not Idiot proof.Enter legal reasons and huge politically correct B.S., Thats why. They used to be standard issue. I dont think cops can be used as a test all for what the 'best pistol is'.

You like Sigs. Cool. I like them. Fine weapon, really! Much better then a glock. Carried one for years(But, I HAD to), a P220. You bring up Sigs line of Competition series, I thought we were talking about carry guns and glocks? You lost me.

Just like Jeff Cooper said, you are fixing a problem that doesnt exist.(in reference to double action)

Lemme get this straight.... You can outshoot a single action auto with a double action auto? Wow! Apples to apples I have never heard that. Defies physics.

As far as dependability issues... I dont know what is wrong with your 1911's (I am honest here, I am NOT a gunsmith), and I dont know what 1911's you own. I've have everything jam on me once for one issue or another. Except my Custom 1911's. Ammo is usually up there as the culprit. My 1911's are not fired until I can cycle 50 empty,fired casings through it. Thats my test and most 1911 gunsmiths are well versed in this request.

I learn something new everyday, I really do. I am not brand specific. I dont know everything. I can tell you that for 20+ plus years of running around with a badge and a gun I have never heard anyone who owns both glocks and 1911's pick a glock over a 1911. So there, I learned something new today. Will it affect me? No. Do I carry my Custom Colt Delta Elite in 10mm? No. I hunt with it. (Wild Boar). Just because you like glocks and I like 1911's really doesnt mean much when you think about it. I dont want to be on the recieving end of either. ;)

Here is a secret, wanna know which pistol outside of a .45 1911 that I think is the worlds best defensive handgun for MOST people?... Thats easy, Browning 9mm Hi Power. Sweet gun. Fits both little hands and big hands, little felt recoil. Solid. Hell, John Browning designed it too.
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i too have seen DA's outshoot SA's, thats no trick anymore.

i also have had 1911's which would function fine with ball but would not feed HP ammo, this was a few yrs ago before the ammo makers started to design bullets with functioning in mind, i dont think 1911's are bad about that anymore but they did have a bad rep back in the early 90's and deservedly so. i dont think a 1911 is as reliable as a glock though simply because my kimber has jammed before and my glock never has (neither has my kahr P9/PM9 but thats another story) .

i suppose a browning half power is "ok" but imho there are a lot of better pistols around, ie glock, SIG & kahr to name 3, will admit if was the schnizzle back in the '80s but like i said better stuff around now, stuff thats lighter, easier to carry, 100% reliable, at least as accurate, but its not a bad old gun i suppose.

as far as this calibre is better than that calibre most ballisticians agree that with modern ammo (ie speer gold dot, w-w ranger, remington golden sabre) any of the service calibres will do the job. now if i could only use ball, well of course give me a .45ACP over a 9MM. but if ya can use say w-w ranger ammo why not carry the smallest/lightest pistol which is acceptably accurate and reliable vs something larger, thats my theory anyway lol.
 
I am not disagreeing with anyone about how good a 1911 is I am just saying there is stuff that is better. I was comparing accuracy of a stock or lightly modded 1911 to other handguns. I have seen race guns made from Glocks, 1911's, S&W's, CZ's, Sigs, H&K's and I cant honestly say any one was more accurate or better handgun than the other. I was comparing stock handguns. I can shoot a 1911 very well. I am now used to high capacity large gripped auto's so the 1911 can feel a little narrow at times. Personally I will take a good semi accurate high capacity gun over a highly accurate low capacity gun. Thank God in todays world I can get both in one gun. My only gripe with 1911's is most 1911's without a beaver tail grip safety like to smash the webbing between my first finger and thumb when fired. I also have had feed problems in several brands of 1911's using large cavity hollow points. Thats one reason I like 357 sig for carry much since the necked down design eliminates this problem. I personally own 3 1911's and I like them. They are not the king of handguns though. As far as Leo carry there are more officers carrying Glocks or Sig's that carry 1911's. I do need to get a Para Ordinance P-14 though since it is high cap and a 1911 :D. Also until recently I though 45 acp was underpowered until I found Magsafe's Guardian Gold +p hollow points. Almost 550 ft lbs of energy with a 185 grn bullet. To each his own you guys all have valid points.
 
When I first read the title of this thread.... I could smell it turn into a "Glock vs. 1911" smash and bash.

Both are fine weapons. Advantages and disadvantages blah, blah, blah. More acurate blah, blah.

Not complaining....just an observation.
 
Bottom line, pick the gun that suits YOU.

Don't get any gun that makes you 'fight' it.

Likewise, dont' get a crap holster that makes you fight it to get your gun out. (FOBUS comes to mind, here)

I am constantly amazed when people spend $1000 on a handgun, then buy a ten cent ($15 retail) fobus to put it in........:rolleyes:

.
 
Under the extreme stress of someone trying to kill you, a cocked and un-locked 1911-style pistol with a 3.5 pound trigger-pull is an accidental discharge just waiting to happen. For stressfull real-world combat, I'll take my 10mm Glock pistol over ANY pistol ever made, past, present, or future.
 
David E has some good advice. I shot and compared a Glock 23, H&K USP 40 and a Springfield Armory XD-40 and liked the H&K best but it was too big and heavy for carry and a bit too expensive so I ended up buying the XD-40. While the Glock shot fine, the XD-40 felt better in my hand plus I liked the extra feature of the 1911 style grip safety. It was also easier to disassemble than the Glock. But as as David E said earlier, "pick the gun that suits YOU'.
 
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