My last spyderco

C

Copis

Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Messages
891
Just got back from the spyderco store. Looking thru the display case I noticed a Matriarch with a sign "law enforcement sales only", Next to it are Harpys and Merlins. when I asked what is the diffence I was told that harpys are fishing knives (thicker point) while Matriarchs are "law enforcement sales only" huh!?!? A little prohibitionist dont you think? Here is what I suggest:
1) Introduce a Civilian II! It should have no point and a "butterknife" edge
2) Make serrations "law enforcement sales only"
3) Maybe spyderco should be"law enforcement sales only"

AKTI, NSSF, NRA memberships mean nothing when prohibition comes from the inside!
No more spydercos for me!

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It is all Greek to me
 
I can understand you frustration as a knife lover, but in fairness to Spyderco, I must note that they made a limited run of Matriarchs available to Blade Forum members last year. I and several hundred other members bougt Matriarchs at that time. From the beginning Sal & Co. said that the Matriarch would be avaiable to LEOs only in America. The knife was designed as a self-defense model for Israel and South Africa. The Civilian is available to the general public because its price puts it out of the range of typical street criminals. I would rather Spyderco show some prudence and self-restraint before something bad happened rather than letting anything be sold and then one handers come under restrictive legislation like automatics.
 
If you do a search on "Matriarch" in this forum and the archives, you will find that the pros and cons of Spyderco's distribution decisions on the Matriarch are much-discussed.

Aside from harvesting mushrooms, there are not a lot of good uses for the Matriarch other than making somebody let go of you quick, and many of us know that is a good and life-sustaining purpose. But self-defense with a knife is a very controversial matter, and has been from when the memory of man runneth not to the contrary.

The Matriarch was originally developed for a couple of foreign markets where the general public and public authorities are more understanding on the subject of personal defense - specifically South Africa, which has the world's highest frequency of reported rape. What Spyderco does not want, with their economical version of the Civilian, is to hear about it from the vice principal of some middle school.

It's not an easy call.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Dont get me wrong! I do not want a Matriarch!I know the effectiveness of blades and Im not impressed with trendy "killer" designs It is very hypocritical to support NSSF AKTI NRA etc and then treat me like a child. I have spent thousands (and continue to spend) on blades and I will not support a company that is instrumental in taking my rights away!I used to think very highly of spyderco. They even have my resume on file! I would never support a prohibitionist company, let alone work for one!


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It is all Greek to me
 
I talked with Sal Glesser at the Blade Show 2000 about alot of knives. I showed him my Matriarchs and he said ,"where did you find those?". He said that some 19 year old in California got caught with a Matriarch (a numbered one) and Spyderco was catching heat over it. I am not sure if they went to court over this or not. I hope not. I don't blame Spyderco one bit for making the sell of Matriarchs to LEO. It really doesn't matter to me anyway (because I already have 4 of them). Don't quit buying Spydercos for this reason. Spyderco is and will always be the best company in the knife industry (my opinion anyway). Lighten up on Spyderco.
 
You don't want one, but your mad anyway.
mad.gif
Hmmm.... Maybe you should vent your frustrations towards the people in this country who are truly trying to take your freedom away, and not towards a company that is just trying to stay in business in todays political climate.

I suspect that the Matriarch is LEO only in this country due to an agreement made with the South African distributor that commissioned the knife. I could be wrong. Probably am actually. Why not just buy a Civilian? I don't really understand what your real beef is.
 
Im not going to let spyderco make these decisions for me! Other knife companies have to put up with PC heat as well! I have never seen a manual folder with restricted sales (class III if you will!)
You better recognize that this is more than a restricted blade! It is about your rights! Im an adult and I do not need spyderco to tell me what to do!

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It is all Greek to me
 
What about the MBC series? They should definetely be "law enforcement sales only" we dont want you boys and girls gettin" hurt!!

I am history! never going back to the store, never purchasing another spyderco! Bye Bye

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It is all Greek to me
 
As I enter into this debate I first want to say two things:

1) It's Mr. Glessers company and he should be repected enough to allow him to run it as he sees fit. That is the nature of the freedoms we so dearly want to defend.

2) I will continue to buy Spyderco products as my budget allows.

Neither of these positions however take away the minor disappointment I feel over being unable to purchase such a unique knife. I mean c'mon, a Cricket on steroids, how cool! I wasn't a member of this forum at the time the Matriarchs were offered and so could not take advantage of the offer.

But it also raises a concern. Is the knife industry going to go the way of Smith and Wesson and Colt? And why?

Is the Matriarch such a superbly deadly weapon that at this "reasonable" price it eclipses the comparably priced Endura? Or is it a matter of appearances? I carry and train with the Endura, I have two Civilians, a Cricket and a Merlin. I can't believe that the Matriarch is really that much more effective than the Endura. Therefore my only surmise is that the LEO only position was taken because of Mr. Glessers concern for the sensibilities of others. And these others are the very ones who are working to take our freedoms away.

It is my opinion that you cannot accomodate these sort of people, because they see such accomodations as just one more victory towards their ultimate goal of strangling you.

Maybe my perception is wrong. I can only make assumptions regarding what forces or convictions caused Mr. Glesser to take that position. All I can say is that all though it does disturb me, it's still his decision to make. And if someone feels strongly enough to quit supporting Spyderco, that is their right to do so as well. But let's respect each other and the right to make the choices our consciences dictate.



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All you need is love... a sharp blade and a full clip
 
matriarch-500w.jpg


And gun issues and knife issues are not the same and they don't feature the same cast of characters on various sides, though there is overlap of course. If anything, the fear of knife-as-weapon is deeper and far far older than fear of guns.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
" I will not support a company that is instrumental in taking my rights away!"
I have been a Police Officer for 15 years. A study of the U.S. Constitution is a large part of our basic training, and it just amazes me that I have never of the amendment that guarantees citizens the right to carry knives. I applaud Spyderco's stand to limit sales of the matriarch to LEO's. Just because Spyderco refuses to sell you a particular model should not, In my humble opinion, prevent you from enjoying the other fine products that Spyderco has offered and continues to offer. just FWIW

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Mark, Isiah 40:31 They that wait on the LORD shall mount up with wings as eagles...
 
One knife design is not worth quibbling over--especially if you don't even like it. If the knives had suddenly been removed from public access, it would be a different story, but they were intended for LEO use from the start.

Copis, if you want to take your business elsewhere, that's your choice. I can't fathom how you equate AKTI membership as anti-thetical to Spyderco patronage. I support knife rights; so does Spyderco. Just because the company produces one model for law enforcement doesn't mean that it is trying to erode rights for the rest of us. Spyderco makes quality products at a fair price, and their customer service is tops. If you don't buy their knives, there will be just a few more out there for the rest of us.

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Guyon
AKTI Member #A001044

"The hardest knife ill used doth lose his edge."
-William Shakespeare, Sonnet 95
 
I respect your expressed concern.BUT
1. I will continue to buy Spyderco products.

2. Sal Glesser & Spyderco are the most ethical knife manufacturer in the world. I don't suspect that the decision to not sell a Matriarch to me (being non LEO, non military) infringes on my constitutional rights.

3. I want a stealth bomber and a nuculear weapon to go with it."just in case". Instead, I'll use my Calypso, Merlin, Bob Lum, Starmate, Civilian, etc, etc, etc.

4. I also want a large breasted 18 yo blond chick.

My WIFE said "NO!" to #'s 3 & 4.

John Row
colobbfan

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I've had more paper cuts than cuts from knives, but the knives are QUICKLY gaining!
 
A lot of different kinds of knives have been made illegal at certain points in history. Here in America, automatics were outlawed in the 50's, while some states outlawed Bali-songs in the 80's.

Of course, the next knife design to come under fire will be the one-hand opening knife. In fact, there was already a push in CA to unexempt one-handers from switch-blade laws.

Nearly all of Spyderco's knives are one-handers: it's a design that Spyderco basically created.

If Spyderco isn't careful with how their knives are promoted and distributed, they could easily see their knives made illegal in the near future. Then we would all lose. It just takes is a little bit of bad publicity to get the D.A.s to start licking their chops. And God forbid a crusading politician with an anti-knife platform gets elected.

Spyderco uses forethought in how some of their more "scary looking" knives are advertised and sold. This isn't "capitulating to the Government"; it's just using some smarts to avoid unwelcome attention. There are a lot of people who want to take your rights away, but Spyderco sure as hell isn't one of them.

Copis, you say you're going to take your business elsewhere? Just out of curiosity, where would that be?
smile.gif
Of course, you can't buy from Benchmade, Boker or Microtech; three great companies that all make autos for LEOs only. Buck knives maybe? Oh, wait... they sold out the knife industry a long time ago by helping to institute the Switch Blade Act. I guess you'll just have to buy Cold Steel knives from now on.
 
1) I never mentioned the constitution
2) I guess it does not bother anybody that the civilian is not restricted! (discriminating against those who cannot afford 150-200 dollar knives, not all are criminals)
3) The streets are alot safer now that Matriarchs are restricted to LEOs!
4)I will boycott any knife company that voluntarily restricts a manual folder!

And that is that folks!



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It is all Greek to me
 
There is no constitutional right to carry any knife. Period. There is however a constitutional right for states to make their own laws. 49 of 50 states have essentially outlawed automatic knives. A state could legally and constitutionally outlaw any type of knife it's legislature could contrive the language to describe. As an LEO I can purchase a Matriarch. I can also purchase quite a bit of other stuff that non-LEO's cannot: High capacity pistol and rifle magazines, Automatic firearms, High capacity shotguns, distraction devices and the list goes on and on. Big deal. I don't think Spyderco is 'selling out' in any way by restricting sales of certain knives. I think Spyderco is just dealing with reality. Remember- this is the day and age when kids get thrown out of school for bringing in a little swiss army knife.

Ben

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"If you're upside down and burning, you probably went too fast."
 
So you can't buy matriarchs. I don't know what orders spyderco has given to European dealers. Toolshop used to sell matriarchs for non LEOs. Now both Matriarchs AND Civilians are limited to LEOs only.
frown.gif
Civilian costs over 200€ in that internet store so IT can't be too cheap.

I'm sorry about this current change in Europe but it won't change my buying habbits.
 
1) I never mentioned the constitution
Click to expand...
There's nothing in the constitution that says you have the right to buy every knife that a company makes.

2) I guess it does not bother anybody that the civilian is not restricted! (discriminating against those who cannot afford 150-200 dollar knives, not all are criminals)"
Click to expand...
Let me get this straight, because I can't believe you're really serious... You think that having a high price tag on a knife is discrimination? In that case, I'm going to sue Chris Reeves. The $300 Sebenza is a major case of discrimination against the poor!
wink.gif


3) The streets are alot safer now that Matriarchs are restricted to LEOs!
Click to expand...
Probably not, but Spyderco's reputation and the popular image of folding knives is certainly a lot safer.

4)I will boycott any knife company that voluntarily restricts a manual folder!
Click to expand...
Other knife companies are restricting the access to certain types of manual folders by not building them. Where else can you buy a design like the Matriarch, with a recurved hawkbill blade and Zytel handle? The point is that no other company even makes them. Why? Because they're cheap, pure combat knives with almost no utility value. If you sell the knife to American civilians, it's going to hurt your company's reputation. That's why other major companies won't even make that kind of knife. And when the knife doesn't exist, it's availablity is severely restricted.

[This message has been edited by cerulean (edited 09-01-2000).]
 
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