My last spyderco

The Matriarch is sold in South Africa primarily as a self defense tool for women. Bruce Wentzel is teaching a class geared for that purpose. However, they do not have the blade length restrictions, etc. that we have.

Personally, I would like to see a Matriarch in every LEOs pocket ( and every woman's).

Regarding the Gunting, I believe that price keeps it out of kid's hands. And some training is required to make the Gunting effective.

I am getting some good input though. Thanx for the time.

Current thought (today) at Spyderco is to let dealers know that we prefer their watching who they sell it to, but not try to create any controls.

sal
 
On blade length restrictions, the Endura is as long as the Matriarch, and there's a trainer being made for it, and maybe a video too. The Endura has more utilitarian uses than the Matriarch, but if, God forbid, one intended to stab somebody in the vitals, the Endura is also a more efficeint stabbing tool than the Matriarch. And there is probably no way in an orderly universe to make a knife that is a good general purpose tool that would not also be an efficient weapon.

Merlin trainer & video, maybe?


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Sal,
I like the idea of making the Matriarch into a total self defense training package for women. You could also think of marketing it as part of the MBC series.

Maybe you should collect as much facts and statistics about criminal knife use as possible, if you don't already. This could give evidence about actual knife preferences of ciminals? I'm not sure if it would do any good when a matriarch comes back to 'bite' you as you say, but it could be some ammo to fight the paper warriors (i.e. lawyers)with.

I appreciate the difficult situation you are in with the Matriarch, and I applaud you for protecting the image of your company and folders in general. But how about a 'collectors exemption', make it in a different color zytel (blue, red, pink, gray again, 'rescue' orange)? I know the matriarchs were available to forum members when they first came out, but I am sure many missed the opportunity that weren't members then or for other reasons.

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Check out my signature quote competition!

[This message has been edited by Mr Blonde (edited 09-08-2000).]
 
I wanted to applaud everyone who has expressed their opinions! One of the great things about BladeForum is that when a problem is presented, people offer SOLUTIONS & ANSWERS not just criticism of each other. I'm always a bit hesitant to join in the fray because of previous experience on the net on various other subjects.
GREAT INPUT everyone!
John Row
colobbfan

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I've had more paper cuts than cuts from knives, but the knives are QUICKLY gaining!
 
In an earlier thread, I recall the preference for LEO's to "screen" their acquaintances in order to determine who might be responsible enough to buy one of their Matriarchs. It was my understanding that this was okay in Mr. Glesser's opinion. If one of my trusted friends were to want a Matriarch, I would buy one for them.

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Life Member NRA & PMA, member AKTI, NKCA, ATA, and any other worthy cause I can find.

 
Bloody heck, didnt realise the "Sal" on the site was the Sal, I am most impressed that the head of Spyderco takes the time and effort to talk to his customers, what other company does this?
Anyways onto the Matriarch issue, Ive just ordered mine (live in SA), and since I think some of the state laws over in the US may be a tad overbored I suppose its meant for your protection, I feel for you guys that cant purchase these forms of product but stand by Spyderco in that they must cover themseleves.
If they did realise blades like the matriarch and something did go wrong, you know very well what the US public is like (no offence) you guys have a itchy finger when it comes to court, and having Spyderco dragged through the mud will hurt us just as much if not more than them.
To the guys that want a matriarch my advice is this, save, save and save, take that cash you got for the matriarch and keep adding what you can till you can afford its bigger brother.
If I was Sal I too would have done the same thing with the high price, why you ask?
Simple, not so gangs cant afford it as I reckon they wouldnt be interested, the ones who would in my opinion are the lill school kiddies whom I sure would love to have something like this to cause havock and to defend themselves against those looking for trouble with them.
I reckon schools would be where it'd hit hard, you know what the kids of 2day are like, love showing off in utterly stupid ways, and just imagine if a kid got his throat slashed by one of those blades, can you imagine the media attention, "spyderco kinife used in the murder of schoolkid", spyderco would be finished.

Sal Im with you all the way, in SA the price of the Mat is still not that low, so not many have the cash to go for that either making it ideal.

Seeya l8tr

MaNcEr

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Its Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
 
Bloody heck, didnt realise the "Sal" on the site was the Sal, I am most impressed that the head of Spyderco takes the time and effort to talk to his customers, what other company does this?
Anyways onto the Matriarch issue, Ive just ordered mine (live in SA), and since I think some of the state laws over in the US may be a tad overbored I suppose its meant for your protection, I feel for you guys that cant purchase these forms of product but stand by Spyderco in that they must cover themseleves.
If they did realise blades like the matriarch and something did go wrong, you know very well what the US public is like (no offence) you guys have a itchy finger when it comes to court, and having Spyderco dragged through the mud will hurt us just as much if not more than them.
To the guys that want a matriarch my advice is this, save, save and save, take that cash you got for the matriarch and keep adding what you can till you can afford its bigger brother.
If I was Sal I too would have done the same thing with the high price, why you ask?
Simple, not so gangs cant afford it as I reckon they wouldnt be interested, the ones who would in my opinion are the lill school kiddies whom I sure would love to have something like this to cause havock and to defend themselves against those looking for trouble with them.
I reckon schools would be where it'd hit hard, you know what the kids of 2day are like, love showing off in utterly stupid ways, and just imagine if a kid got his throat slashed by one of those blades, can you imagine the media attention, "spyderco kinife used in the murder of schoolkid", spyderco would be finished.

Sal Im with you all the way, in SA the price of the Mat is still not that low, so not many have the cash to go for that either making it ideal.

Seeya l8tr

MaNcEr

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Its Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
 
How the heck did THIS get BTTT...???!!

In re-reading this thread, I noticed several pointed, insightful questions from Steve B. went completely unanswered!! Oh, well...maybe next time.....
frown.gif
 
Ok, Bye Bye, First things first. The Matriarch and Civilian are DEFENSE WEAPONS only and really have no practical use in the real world. The Gunting/Ayoob/etc. even though they are defense oriented also make decent utility knives. I carry my Gunting to work and has been very useful. Spyderco has the right to market and sell their knives to whomever they want (w/i ethical boundaries). If they want to create a knife designed for Police and the like, they can. No one is denying you a knife that you shouldn't have anyway.
Matt
 
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The word "knife" is right there next to "gun!" You people can't see it?
 
Obviously there are many opinions, and IMO, no simple answers.

Steve B. the Gunting is more than twice the price and not really "scary" looking.

Another piece of info to add is that the tip of the Matriarch is really too fine for utility and is not guaranteed as a utility blade. I had a customer complain to me about the poor quality of Spyderco because he broke the tip of his Matriarch while using it for utility cutting of seat belts.

It would be great to have all of the "right" things be right, but such is not always the case.

sal
 
It is well known that you can still get one on the internet if you know where to look. My opinion on the matter is this:
If the knife were only sold on the net, you would drastically reduce the chance of street gangs getting them, of course you still can't prevent angry rich kids from getting them, and given the recent surge in middle-class school violence, that might not be the best idea either.
Of course, all that is my opinion, it's not my company. I think that there are lots of ways this could be handled, but Sal's decision has increased the credibility of the cutlery industry and those of us who carry knives for defence, and I applaud the decision to sacrifice profit for the sake of our community, and frankly, the shrewdness of spyderco protecting there own buts. Perhaps my feeling would be different if I Didn't know how to get one :-) I think that everyone out there has good ideas, but I think those of us who like spyderco knives should support whatever decisions are made for the sake of our freedoms and the avoidance of LEGAL restrictions on our right to knives.

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
"Those who hold the thin blue line keep order, and insure that anarchy and chaos will not prevail."
Chad
Couldn't help noticing the above bovine fecal matter.
Let me please qualify my preceeding statement by saying that I hold the average Police officer in great esteem. For the most part they are honorable people and more or less just like your average "civilian". Being a veteran myself I appreciate anyone who places themself in a hazardous position for the sake of the citizens' benefit. And, some of my best friends are cops!
However, this guy's signature hit a nerve within me. The TRUTH is that the Police do little to insure the protection of the citizen. They are far too limited in thier availibility and scope to actually offer protection for us from the "goblins" in the world. A truth that I know personally frustrates those in that line of public service. An individual must take measures to protect himself from the predators that are abundant in our land. As a matter of fact, in most cases, the Police are only present after an assault, rape, murder, robbery,etc. has already occured to affect help after the fact. Hopefully, if they are lucky and often after some civilian assisted them, they may actually apprehend those responsible for the crime. I personally trust not in the "thin blue line..." thank God our forefathers understood that a free man's security rested solely in himself and God's sovreignty. "...the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed." Thank God also that my state offers me the freedom to carry a firearm concealed on my person; which I do every day. My gun has been faithfully by my side many, many times while the Police were busy elsewhere. I have no Cop stationed outside my door throughout the dark night, but my Beretta mantains a constant vigil close at hand. And also, never discount the profit of a reliable DOG upon your property. 'Nuff said!

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RIGGS: We're gonna get bloody on this one Roger.
MURTAUGH: Are you really crazy? Or are you as good as you say you are?
RIGGS: You're gonna have to trust me.

[This message has been edited by LethalWeapon (edited 03-20-2001).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by LethalWeapon:
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
"Those who hold the thin blue line keep order, and insure that anarchy and chaos will not prevail."
Chad
Couldn't help noticing the above bovine fecal matter.
</font>
Click to expand...

Wow. Nice first post.
I must disagree, in part, however. I have seen police do a lot of good, I've even done a little good myself.
We are all entitled to our own opinion though.
I do support the RKBA, for all law abiding citizens.
I agree that everybody should have the right, means and ability to defend themselves, their home and their family.
I also agree that a big, well socialized dog is a great companion and protector.
Stay safe,
Chad



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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
George Orwell
"Those who hold the thin blue line keep order, and insure that anarchy and chaos will not prevail." Chad (1992)
"He who lives by the sword dies by the sword. He who dies by the sword did not train hard enough" -Chad (1999)
chad234@email.com
 
Hi Lethalweapon. Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Where all opinions are welcome and respected.

sal
 
Hey, thanks for kind words Chad. I hope I didn't come off sounding too harsh. I have nothing against our Police forces, as I said I hold them in great esteem, I for one could never be a cop, I know I could not handle the daily endurance of dealing with the scum of the earth that cops have to deal with.

Hey Sal! The MAN himself! ALRIGHT!

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RIGGS: We're gonna get bloody on this one Roger.
MURTAUGH: Are you really crazy? Or are you as good as you say you are?
RIGGS: You're gonna have to trust me.
 
I really can't see the point of a mat being sold to only leo. To me any knife from a decent company can cut you or kill you. What makes the mat so special. A BG could probaly do more damage with cold steel voyager than a mat. I own a few civie myself. Can any one tell me what the difference in size between a civie and a mat are and if there are any major difference in steel comp between the two?

Whats a mat going for these days just curious.
 
You could probably do more damage with a reprofiled lawnmower blade.
biggrin.gif
All points are moot, including mine.
smile.gif
Matriarchs are available to people like you and me and your grandmother and my grandmother so this issue is resolved, I hope. Copis - still no more Spydercos? C'mon, man! They're nice!

-IPR
 
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