My List of Steels in order for Edge Retention So Far

A lot of controversies...
I do agree that the ease with which the knife slices through cardboard would be determined by blade geometry, grind, blah blah blah. That would explain why VG-10, or rather the slender, well profiled Spyderco JD Smith performed so well. But he (and another fellow member, Josh) did state that he is testing the ability of the steels to have a SCARY sharp edge. If he indeed could cut a ton of cardboards, the results would be different! But since he cuts roughly one box of cardboard, the edge retention on these knives is not tested to it's absolute limits. Thus, his test are maybe not too scientific, but definitely helpful, as they do show exactly what people don't always understand- blade steels dull differently. Some get toothy, some smooth out faster. But the main thing is that through moderate and not too prolonged amount of use, certain steels could be a better choice than the supersteels on nowadays.

Thanks for your reviews and the comparisons. We all appreciate what you're doing. Keep up the good work man :thumbup::thumbup:
 
Razorsharp1986 said:
A lot of controversies...
I do agree that the ease with which the knife slices through cardboard would be determined by blade geometry, grind, blah blah blah. That would explain why VG-10, or rather the slender, well profiled Spyderco JD Smith performed so well. But he (and another fellow member, Josh) did state that he is testing the ability of the steels to have a SCARY sharp edge. If he indeed could cut a ton of cardboards, the results would be different! But since he cuts roughly one box of cardboard, the edge retention on these knives is not tested to it's absolute limits. Thus, his test are maybe not too scientific, but definitely helpful, as they do show exactly what people don't always understand- blade steels dull differently. Some get toothy, some smooth out faster. But the main thing is that through moderate and not too prolonged amount of use, certain steels could be a better choice than the supersteels on nowadays.

Thanks for your reviews and the comparisons. We all appreciate what you're doing. Keep up the good work man :thumbup::thumbup:
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Thanks Man. :)
 
idk from the 2 m4 knives i have they are scary sharp and keep it for a long time. much longer then the vg and s30v i have, m4 has a very small grain structure. giving it the ability to take a very fine edge. not taking anything away from his tests though.. he just reported how it showed for him.
 
I'd like to see the knife (or knives) that were tested next to the respective steels.

Beyound that, I can see how the results came about.
 
Hi Ankerson, as you know, I am always a supporter of your tests because they are real life based and to me it is not the blades or geometry you are testing, but the quality of the remaining EDGE after cutting X amount of cardboard,with the the measurement being the ability to shave.

I am a fan of 154CM and totally agree that this some real crap 154CM out in the market having bought six 154CM knives I can attest to that. I found the best to have been on a Landi Custom Snake Bull and discontinued OLD United UZI defenders. I will be buying the TOPS BEST in 154CM as I reckon that it will be good steel.

ATS34 went through a similar phase about 15 years ago.

Keep up the good work.
 
Falcor said:
Hi Ankerson, as you know, I am always a supporter of your tests because they are real life based and to me it is not the blades or geometry you are testing, but the quality of the remaining EDGE after cutting X amount of cardboard,with the the measurement being the ability to shave.

I am a fan of 154CM and totally agree that this some real crap 154CM out in the market having bought six 154CM knives I can attest to that. I found the best to have been on a Landi Custom Snake Bull and discontinued OLD United UZI defenders. I will be buying the TOPS BEST in 154CM as I reckon that it will be good steel.

ATS34 went through a similar phase about 15 years ago.

Keep up the good work.
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154CM and ATS-34 has gone through some ups and downs for sure over the years.

CPM 154 is a different steel though. :thumbup:

Thanks. :D
 
You're testing knives not just steels.
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I'll go a step farther and say with the exception of the spyderco mules you are only testing knives and not steels.

Steels will have a heat treat ( including temper) that will bring you to a final hardness where your best adhesive and abrasive wear resistance occur.

Most production knives are no where near that heat treat and may be treated for maximum corrosion resistance, toughness, or a best balance of the three.

Unless you are making the knives yourself and are controlling these factors you wont know what kind of heat treat you are using.

Most people know that the higher the hardness, the better the edge retention and often the best wear resistance occurs overall. We also can agree that this occurs at the cost of toughness. To what extent the balance has been made only the production company knows. How many companies come any where near max hardness? None that I know of do, and only very few custom makers really push their steels.

Lets Take 420HC for instance. Can we all agree that a Bos heat treat at a higher hardness on buck knives gets more out of 420HC than a similar 420HC knife from XXXX ?

I've seen the same with S30V. One company runs it higher RC numbers than most others.

Unless you have optimum heat treat set up for each steels you can't possibly be testing just the steels in this, or any other members test I've seen so far.

Testing is great, but don't confuse testing knives with testing steels.

Regards. Joe
 
I am really excited to see your testing. There is no too many people willing to pay some effort to do actual work and also organize results.

Can you describe your method and criteria you use to rate steel?
Do you have any numeric data? Can you as well provide maker and model for tested steel, because result depends on HT which may be different from maker to maker or model to model.

I also have some rate and results, and if you want I can give you pointer, but may be it will be better for you not to know them so it will not influence your results.

For steels you already tested

Ankerson said:
ZDP-189
VG-10
CPM 154
CPM S35VN
VG-1
CPM M4
CTS-BD1
Duratech 20CV
CPM S30V
AUS-8A
SR-101
INFI
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I have:

5. Yuna Hard II ZDP-189
6. SwampRat SR101 (52100)
8. Spyderco Mule CPM M4
15. Buck CPM154
17. Buck CPM S30V
21. CTS-BD1
24. Kershaw CPM S30V
25. SPyderco Mule CPM S35VN
28. Busse INIFI
36. CRKT AUS8

Thanks, Vassili.
 
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nozh2002 said:
I am really excited to see your testing. There is no too many people willing to pay some effort to do actual work and also organize results.

Can you describe your method and criteria you use to rate steel?
Do you have any numeric data? Can you as well provide maker and model for tested steel, because result depends on HT which may be different from maker to maker or model to model.

I also have some rate and results, and if you want I can give you pointer, but may be it will be better for you not to know them so it will not influence your results.

For steels you already tested



I have:

6. SwampRat SR101 (52100)
5. Yuna Hard II ZDP-189
8. Spyderco Mule CPM M4
15. Buck CPM154
17. Buck CPM S30V
24. Kershaw CPM S30V
21. CTS-BD1
25. SPyderco Mule CPM S35VN
28. Busse INIFI
36. CRKT AUS8

Thanks, Vassili.
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What I do is simple, I reprofile all the blades to a 15 degree per side edge, sharpen and polish the edges up to 6,000 Grit (Tape ~ 30,000 grit Whet Stone) on my Edge Pro.

I have cardboard boxes so that's what I use, I cut them up into small pieces as fast I can for less than 5 mins and test the edge on a piece of notebook paper to see if it will slice it cleanly and check to see if they shave hair.

Watch a few videos and you will get the idea. :)

It's not very scientific, but it gives a good general idea of how the steels hold a razor edge. :)
 
Ankerson said:
What I do is simple, I reprofile all the blades to a 15 degree per side edge, sharpen and polish the edges up to 6,000 Grit (Tape ~ 30,000 grit Whet Stone) on my Edge Pro.

I have cardboard boxes so that's what I use, I cut them up into small pieces as fast I can for less than 5 mins and test the edge on a piece of notebook paper to see if it will slice it cleanly and check to see if they shave hair.

Watch a few videos and you will get the idea. :)

It's not very scientific, but it gives a good general idea of how the steels hold a razor edge. :)
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Yes I did watch your videos and wondering what difference you see between CTS-BD1 and ZDP189. It is not very clear from video.

And you are perfectly scientific to me.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
Yes I did watch your videos and wondering what difference you see between CTS-BD1 and ZDP189. It is not very clear from video.

And you are perfectly scientific to me.

Thanks, Vassili.
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ZDP-189 sliced the paper cleaner and shaved hair. :)
 
Ankerson said:
What I do is simple, I reprofile all the blades to a 15 degree per side edge, sharpen and polish the edges up to 6,000 Grit (Tape ~ 30,000 grit Whet Stone) on my Edge Pro.

I have cardboard boxes so that's what I use, I cut them up into small pieces as fast I can for less than 5 mins and test the edge on a piece of notebook paper to see if it will slice it cleanly and check to see if they shave hair.

Watch a few videos and you will get the idea. :)

It's not very scientific, but it gives a good general idea of how the steels hold a razor edge. :)
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but doesn't that mean if your cutting faster on one knife one day that it could possibly cut more then another knife? i think in the tests u should get a thick sheet of cardboard like in blunt truths video's cut them each a certain amount of times then test. u should also mark the blades and only cut with a certain area to give the best results.
 
ar0maticdecay said:
but doesn't that mean if your cutting faster on one knife one day that it could possibly cut more then another knife? i think in the tests u should get a thick sheet of cardboard like in blunt truths video's cut them each a certain amount of times then test. u should also mark the blades and only cut with a certain area to give the best results.
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I can tell were I was cutting very easy when I look at the blades after the cardboard. ;)

They look something like this after I am done cutting, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's going on with the edges either..



 
I think it is OK because so many cuts were made so probably blade was covered statistically evenly.

I may suggest to cut under same angle and do not bother with small parts of cardboard. I am not sure but internal cardboard structure is different and to my experience it is different to cut it horizontally or vertical or diagonally.

For example on the video Mule cuts mostly diagonally and Endura - vertically. It may (or may not) affect results.

Also I may suggest to do same blade several times and see how results will vary. Again I know that this is hard work - do knife testing and may only suggest.

But it is most important I think to better formalize somehow final sharpness test. Like how many jams per ten paper cuts were hapened - something like this.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I think it is OK because so many cuts were made so probably blade was covered statistically evenly.

I may suggest to cut under same angle and do not bother with small parts of cardboard. I am not sure but internal cardboard structure is different and to my experience it is different to cut it horizontally or vertical or diagonally.

For example on the video Mule cuts mostly diagonally and Endura - vertically. It may (or may not) affect results.

Also I may suggest to do same blade several times and see how results will vary. Again I know that this is hard work - do knife testing and may only suggest.

But it is most important I think to better formalize somehow final sharpness test. Like how many jams per ten paper cuts were hapened - something like this.

Thanks, Vassili.
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I would do more if I could take videos over 5 mins, but my camera is limited to 5 min video (DSLR).
 
Hey all. Well I guess I should put in my 2 cents worth. I've been making and collecting for over 30 years. If I were to do a steel vs. steel to see actual edge rentention, The way I would go about it would be: all blades same size, same edge angle, same RC, and same sharpining method, all the same, no different makers, RC, flat ground vs. hollow ground. I mention this because I can change say, A2 into many different edge retentions by just changing the RC for what use the blade is going to have. Say a bit harder for small workers, and a bit softer and more springy for big, or sword blades. Me when I test blades I go by the makers claims. I get one of each that is close in size and shape, and beat the beans out of them. Who cuts best wins, when done bean beatin them. I'm not knockin anything you are doing (its a good idea actually) but I just do things by a different drum. Keep cuttin away.! Enjoy. edgy
 
I appreciate this thread. I know its not the last word in edge retention, but its good to have more data points, especially when we can see with our own eyeballs where they came from. Good stuff.
 
powernoodle said:
I appreciate this thread. I know its not the last word in edge retention, but its good to have more data points, especially when we can see with our own eyeballs where they came from. Good stuff.
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Thanks man. :)
 
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