My Manix 2 Maxamet Just Snapped !!

[bdmicarta]

For speed and efficiency, I can see why some guys use extremely high pressure and really muscle it. As previously stated, I've seen guys put their weight behind it.

I've seen it too. It's relatively easy to score the paper, it's more difficult if you are trying to cut deeper. Plus if you are making a long cut the angle of your hand and arm can change over the length of cut where you may not be pushing only one direction at some point along the length.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Why can Maxamet break out pieces of aluminum and brass rods without chipping or breaking, but it can't adequately score a paper and gypsum piece of drywall without breaking farther back on a thicker part of the steel than the part of the blade that is actually in the drywall?

Is maxamet designed to cut out chunks of aluminum rods? Is that what Spyderco intended maxamet to do?
Some people crash their cars when they drink and drive... some make it all the way home safe and sound. Is making it home safe an excuse to drink and drive again and again?

We have to read between the lines here... can maxamet score drywall, and cut pieces out of aluminum rods? Yes, mostly. Is the manufacturer going to advertise that you can use your knife to score and cut drywall instead of a carpenters knife? Absolutely not.

It’s the same reason a Ford raptor is suggested to be able to survive jumping sand dunes at 80mph, but if you break an axle on a rock Ford won’t cover it.

 

[on_the_edge]

Is maxamet designed to cut out chunks of aluminum rods? Is that what Spyderco intended maxamet to do?
Some people crash their cars when they drink and drive... some make it all the way home safe and sound. Is making it home safe an excuse to drink and drive again and again?

Can you please just answer my question with factual information rather than asking more questions or making a tenuous analogy? My question is a valid one that I think you should be able to answer based on your viewpoint. I want to understand.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Can you please just answer my question with factual information rather than asking more questions or making a tenuous analogy? My question is a valid one that I think you should be able to answer based on your viewpoint. I want to understand.

I answered your question. If you don’t like my analogies, reading them is voluntary.

 

[craytab]

So, the two counter arguments to this being a warranty claim that Spyderco should have honored are that the steel can't handle scoring drywall and the OP is lying, or some combination of the two.

Most here agree the knife should be able to handle the use, and Spyderco has not given a reason why the knife broke other than saying it isn't under warranty, which to me, is calling the customer a liar without evidence.

I don't like either one of those outcomes. Not what I expect from Spyderco. I'm still hopeful that they will take a closer look at this.

Can you please just answer my question with factual information rather than asking more questions or making a tenuous analogy? My question is a valid one that I think you should be able to answer based on your viewpoint. I want to understand.

Don't bother.

 

[Planterz]

That the end user was simply “scoring” drywall is an assumption. I’m not calling anyone a liar, but no one would get on a knife forum and say “I hammered my maxamet into a 2x4 and used it as a springboard for my swimming pool”.

The plight of the customer always has a certain flavor of innocence you can count on, and a purposeful evasion of revealing the things they did wrong.

Again, not calling anyone a liar, but only one person here knows what ACTUALLY happened.

I’m sorry but I’m not buying it.
There’s no way that happened cutting drywall, definitely not “scoring” it. You had to have done something more than that with it.
For all we know it was clamped down in a vice and snapped off.

 

[Ippon98]

Is maxamet designed to cut out chunks of aluminum rods? Is that what Spyderco intended maxamet to do?
Some people crash their cars when they drink and drive... some make it all the way home safe and sound. Is making it home safe an excuse to drink and drive again and again?

We have to read between the lines here... can maxamet score drywall, and cut pieces out of aluminum rods? Yes, mostly. Is the manufacturer going to advertise that you can use your knife to score and cut drywall instead of a carpenters knife? Absolutely not.

It’s the same reason a Ford raptor is suggested to be able to survive jumping sand dunes at 80mph, but if you break an axle on a rock Ford won’t cover it.

Your drinking and driving analogy is extremely inappropriate. Your posts have brought up some good topics of discussion, but the good is hidden beneath a pile of BS. Are you really implying that cutting sheetrock (or the tasks BBB did in his videos) is like drinking and driving? There is a lot of room for productive discussion, and everyone here can learn something. But these types of posts don't help IMO

Edit grammar

 

[King of the Cheese]

Your drinking and driving analogy is extremely in appropriate. Your posts have brought up some good topics of discussion, but the good is hidden beneath a pile of BS. Are you really implying that cutting sheetrock (or the tasks BBB did in his videos) is like drinking and driving? There is a lot of room for productive discussion, and everyone here can learn something. But these types of posts don't help IMO

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Using a knife for purposes in which it wasn’t designed should not entitle someone to a no-questions-asked warranty.
I don’t really care if you agree with me or not. I own two maxamet knives, and you don’t see me trying to shave chunks out of aluminum rods with them, cut through drywall, or baton logs.
Anything else?

 

[Eli Chaps]

This is Sal's house and given the tone this thread is now taking, out of respect for him, I'm out.

 

[craytab]

Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Using a knife for purposes in which it wasn’t designed should not entitle someone to a no-questions-asked warranty.
I don’t really care if you agree with me or not. I own two maxamet knives, and you don’t see me trying to shave chunks out of aluminum rods with them, cut through drywall, or baton logs.
Anything else?

This will be my only response to you because it is clear you are here just to argue. The drinking and driving analogy is awful because to get a license to drive, it is made very clear that you should not drink and drive. There are laws against it that we all know. There are warnings on the alcohol to tell you not to do it.

Where is the warning on maxamet that says you shouldn't use it for fairly easy to accomplish cutting tasks? It's a rhetorical question, no need to answer.

You also made it clear that you think the OP is lying. We don't really need any further input from you. Take care.

 

[91bravo]

If you can’t score something like drywall with Maxamet, then what CAN you do with it? Cardboard slicer? Fruit knife? Letter opener? First test I do to my new knives is to take it to work and cut stuff I normally cut with my knives. I found out the hard way, that you can’t take a Maxamet blade to work, because it won’t handle work cutting chores.

 

[craytab]

This is Sal's house and given the tone this thread is now taking, out of respect for him, I'm out.

You know, I'll do the same. I hope Spyderco responds and does what I think is the right thing or sheds more light to justify the choice they've made. Besides more information from Spyderco or the OP, I don't really need anything further from this thread and given the direction this thread appears to be taking with some new participants, I see no point in responding further.

 

[Danke42]

So page ten. Don't thing the OP is a liar but I would guess what caused the blade to break happened before the drywall.

Companies can have issues with releasing what's termed "personal information" in cases like this. even on a subject that's involved in a public discussion. Sometimes they decide to just take their lumps and move on without issuing further explanations.

 

[Ippon98]

Thanks for your clarification craytab .

I have said my peace, I'll hop on the "out" bandwagon as well. Hopefully we can get some input from Spyderco and the tread can regain some usefulness.

 

[SubMicron]

If you can’t score something like drywall with Maxamet, then what CAN you do with it? Cardboard slicer? Fruit knife? Letter opener? First test I do to my new knives is to take it to work and cut stuff I normally cut with my knives. I found out the hard way, that you can’t take a Maxamet blade to work, because it won’t handle work cutting chores.

If you're careful, scoring drywall is no problem. A lot of people, I think, are not careful and it seems to be somewhat common for some people to use more pressure than necessary.

Due to the thickness, a knife is not an efficient tool for scoring drywall, which can invite even more pressure from the user. Past the paper backing, the mechanics of the "cut" seem to be more akin to a V-shaped snow plow in action.

The pressure and angles are the variables, not drywall, just pressure and angles.

While it's true high pressure is not required, it's also true that many people use way more than necessary. For that reason, and because of the inefficiency due to geometry, the general guidance should be to not use a knife for drywall, especially a steel that's vulnerable to lateral stress.

Obviously if you need to you can, but you need to be careful, especially because you might be doing it at your own risk without warranty support.

Maxamet is incredibly strong, just not against side to side pressure.

I'd also recommend a heavy sharpening to get behind any possible fatigued steel on the factory edge. I'm thinking in terms of crack propagation, perhaps to the point of being paranoid, but I didnt want any potential weak areas where a crack could get started.

My personal experiences with Maxamet have been 100% positive.

 

[91bravo]

If you're careful, scoring drywall is no problem. A lot of people, I think, are not careful and it seems to be somewhat common for some people to use more pressure than necessary.

Due to the thickness, a knife is not an efficient tool for scoring drywall, which can invite even more pressure from the user. Past the paper backing, the mechanics of the "cut" seem to be more akin to a V-shaped snow plow in action.

The pressure and angles are the variables, not drywall, just pressure and angles.

While it's true high pressure is not required, it's also true that many people use way more than necessary. For that reason, and because of the inefficiency due to geometry, the general guidance should be to not use a knife for drywall, especially a steel that's vulnerable to lateral stress.

Obviously if you need to you can, but you need to be careful, especially because you might be doing it at your own risk without warranty support.

Maxamet is incredibly strong, just not against side to side pressure.

I'd also recommend a heavy sharpening to get behind any possible fatigued steel on the factory edge. I'm thinking in terms of crack propagation, perhaps to the point of being paranoid, but I didnt want any potential weak areas where a crack could get started.

My personal experiences with Maxamet have been 100% positive.

I don’t buy a knife to be careful with it. I buy it to use as a knife. Cutting and some scraping. Most folks are going to use a knife like a knife, and not think about having to be “careful” about using it.

 

[SubMicron]

I don’t buy a knife to be careful with it. I buy it to use as a knife. Cutting and some scraping. Most folks are going to use a knife like a knife, and not think about having to be “careful” about using it.

I agree.

I wouldn't think that Maxamet is for "most" users either. I also think most people lack the abrasives necessary to sharpen Maxamet correctly.

There's different steels for different people and different usage profiles.

 

[King of the Cheese]

If you're careful, scoring drywall is no problem. A lot of people, I think, are not careful and it seems to be somewhat common for some people to use more pressure than necessary.

Due to the thickness, a knife is not an efficient tool for scoring drywall, which can invite even more pressure from the user. Past the paper backing, the mechanics of the "cut" seem to be more akin to a V-shaped snow plow in action.

The pressure and angles are the variables, not drywall, just pressure and angles.

While it's true high pressure is not required, it's also true that many people use way more than necessary. For that reason, and because of the inefficiency due to geometry, the general guidance should be to not use a knife for drywall, especially a steel that's vulnerable to lateral stress.

Obviously if you need to you can, but you need to be careful, especially because you might be doing it at your own risk without warranty support.

Maxamet is incredibly strong, just not against side to side pressure.

I'd also recommend a heavy sharpening to get behind any possible fatigued steel on the factory edge. I'm thinking in terms of crack propagation, perhaps to the point of being paranoid, but I didnt want any potential weak areas where a crack could get started.

My personal experiences with Maxamet have been 100% positive.

My experiences have all been positive as well, and I put one of my maxamet knives through some tough use... but if it broke from my hard use, I would accept ownership of it for pushing it to the limits.
What I will not do is complain that I’m owed a replacement.
I will say that knife warranties are a complicated matter.
You buy a toaster oven, it doesn’t turn on, boom. Warranty issue.
You buy a knife and where is the line? It’s not spelled out clearly. Some of us slice apples and open the mail... some of us cut through drywall and baton tree limbs off... and everything in between.

I am curious as to what internal findings Spyderco used to rule on this matter, but I don’t fault them for their response at all.

I once used my lw manix s110v to cut a rectangular hole in drywall where an outlet goes. Did the job like a champ. I suspect maxamet would do the same.

 

[anycal]

Intersting read.

I will sum things up based on this thread and my one negative experience with Maxamet, which had nothing to do with CS.

• Customer Service should have handled this claim differently. Wrong person, wrong protocol, interaction with OP, capacity to deal with claims - I don't know. If thigs like this don't impact their business negatively, then it is what it is. Live with it, or take your business elsewhere.
• I hope that we can agree on scoring sheetrock, or various other standard or even hardish cutting tasks, should not snap a knife in half.
• I think the thread is too focused on the material being cut. Most of this back and forth could have been avoided if OP noted cardboard instead of sheetrock. Not saying to be dishonest, but scoring sheetrock ruffled some feathers. It really shouldn't. From my experience, it is not a hard use task.
• OP's failure was either due to a manufacturing defect and no fault of his, or undisclosed use of the knife.
• Maxamet had some production issue, and it was even noted by Sal that it is difficult to work with. In the grand sceme of things, although the number is small, I have seen more broken Maxamet knives than any other in Spyderco's steel lineup.
• I am a big fan of the brand, but if Spyderco decides to discontinue the use of this steel, it will not hurt my feelings.

 

[SubMicron]

Some how I missed this post and frankly the same question has been on my mind since long before this thread was created.

Why can Maxamet break out pieces of aluminum and brass rods without chipping or breaking, but it can't adequately score a paper and gypsum piece of drywall without breaking farther back on a thicker part of the steel than the part of the blade that is actually in the drywall?

Frankly I dont absolutely know why. After typing this whole post, I think I at least partially know why.

I'll try to delve into this but dont flame me out on this one. I'm going out on a limb to try to begin figuring this out and I do think I have a good answer, or at least a partial answer.

Variables have to be considered:

What we have to remember is that BBB is an expert sharpener and user. He's a knife maker that generally speaking, knows what he's doing and knows what he's talking about. I would expect that you can hand any knife in any steel to BBB, and as long as it's not defective, he'll be able to cut or stab almost anything he wants, and he'll be able to hand the knife back to you in perfect condition after he sharpens it.

Meanwhile I know people who are literally too incompetent to even put the knife in their pocket without breaking the steel clip of my CRKT Caligo, which explained why his old knife was in the condition that it was in.

Those would be the two extreme edges of end-user variables... moving on:

Pushing a knife edge into something, brass for example, loads pressure from the edge to the spine which anything should handle just fine, aside from apex damage. Maxamet is stupid strong at the apex, minus side to side

The quality of the sharpening also matters. Imagine week spots due to inconsistencies at the apex from sharpening.

So then to push strait into brass, no problem, but its not following a strait line. It pushes in, deflects, and pushes out leaving a shallow U-shape in the brass, which can be seen in BBB's video. No doubt that's creating some lateral stress...

What's clear, is that in the way BBB does it, its not creating enough stress to chip, crack, or break Maxamet.

The natural variances in Rockwell hardness from knife to knife matter.... 66 Rockwell verses 69 Rockwell. There's talk of possible 70 HRC Maxamet examples.

Now in contrast with brass:

Push the tip straight into wood really hard without twisting or rocking back and forth. All of that energy spreads through the blade stock and there's no problem. Now continue pushing very hard strait down but angle the blade to the side a little and now the blade will begin to flex. Doing that with a thin flexible fillet knife, minus the high pressure, really underscores the physics of this.

It's the flexing of the blade stock caused by high pressure that's causing the breakage.

Do that with ANY knife steel that's approaching 70HRC and you should expect a catastrophic failure.