My Manix 2 Maxamet Just Snapped !!

[Bastler]

Most people would argue that a pocket knife should not be used for scoring drywall. My opinion is that it depends on the steel, and Maxamet is not one that I could recommend for drywall.

I've hung a fair amount of rock and I've always used a utility knife with a blade less than a millimeter thick. The idea that an ordinary pocket knife is too fragile to cut sheetrock sounds odd to me, least of all a $200 knife with the latest kryptonite alloy, or whatever. Maybe that's why I prefer my Anker Messer or a Case Trapper for a work knife.

 

[Blues]

Here lies the problem.
Only one person knows the truth.
Spyderco cant win.....maybe the truth involves questions of one's honesty and turns one pr issue into another

On the contrary, they could have won had they sent the blade out to their R&D Dept., and perhaps tested the blade...such as its Rockwell, looked for faults, stress risers or defects etc. Then one could confidently say that they took reasonable steps to rule out any issues on the manufacturing side.

But the letter they sent in its place answered nothing, and provided no clarification. If that is not clear, I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer to you...so will not try further.

 

[Eli Chaps]

Thank you. I was just working on this same thing.

The first issue here is how did Spyderco determine this specific knife failed as a result of use? Maybe they did do some kind of analysis but we don't know that and what has been presented doesn't readily support that.

Then we have others weighing in to say they have had the exact same break under mild circumstances. So circumstantially, it makes you concerned about this steel in this knife.

If you ask me, scoring drywall is exactly the kind of thing Maxamet should be good at. Please don't again tell me about lateral stress. I get it and I disagree that this is a task that should cause failure. You can induce more lateral stress slicing thick cardboard. If the OP said he was prying paint can lids off when a half inch of the tip snapped off, yeah, that makes sense.

I am not going to pile on some Spyderco sucks notion because I don't believe that. I've seen way too many cases of awesome service for that and will continue to buy and support Spyderco. But I do think this could use further explanation.

 

[ronnie hood]

But the letter they sent in its place answered nothing, and provided no clarification. If that is not clear, I honestly don't know how to make it any clearer to you...so will not try further.

As previously stated....why should they when he jumped on here calling it a pos before even contacting them in a cordial fashion.
The way he acted is the reason for his treatment

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I can't say with anymore certainty than anyone else but if the OP were going to try to cover up the reason for the broken blade I don't think drywall would be the best cover story.

And it should have handled scoring drywall anyway ... even in Maxamet ... I have used small thin razor blade box cutters to score drywall in a pinch and never broke a blade doing it. It really isn't hard on anything but the edge retention.

I just think the letter was not an adequate response with a flat denial of warranty ... and hope there is a more complete reply coming.

 

[Blues]

As previously stated....why should they when he jumped on here calling it a pos before even contacting them in a cordial fashion.
The way he acted is the reason for his treatment

You're moving the goalposts...but that is not a legitimate reason for a reputable company to deny service. If they only wanted to hear compliments there would be no purpose to hosting an open forum. They could just post accolades on their site and not allow comments.

That's not the kind of company they have proven to be over the years, and that's also the reason why so many of us support them...and are surprised by the less than satisfactory response in this matter.

 

[bdmicarta]

You can induce more lateral stress slicing thick cardboard.

I broke a small fixed blade knife one time slicing a small piece of thin cardboard. I still don't know how I did it, I was cutting slowly and cutting in a straight line, or so I thought.

 

[SubMicron]

For the first time in my life, because of this thread, I cut drywall and I did it with a Native 5 REX-45, for the purpose of understanding drywall better.

I'm working with scraps leftover from a buddy's project. The first thing he asked me was "why would you use a knife for cutting drywall?" I explained this thread. He brought up using a utility knife, because its thin, and allows you to cut deeper, which gives a cleaner break. He said for long pieces, it's best to get about half way through to ensure a good break. Small pieces sometimes just need a pass or two.

I varied the pressure on different passes and despite my efforts to keep the knife at 90 degrees, I did notice there was some side to side.

I just played around a little and then cleaned the tip for the photo.



For speed and efficiency, I can see why some guys use extremely high pressure and really muscle it. As previously stated, I've seen guys put their weight behind it.

Those scenarios Im sure can break Maxamet or S110V. They just absolutely are not the right steel for drywall, unless there's no other choice, and then I'd use only light to medium pressure.

 

[Ippon98]

I would much rather use a utility knife to cut sheetrock, I think that's not a huge point of debate.

I'm sure if you were trying, you could break a MAXAMET blade in the drywall. I think the point (yes pun intended) is that the OP's use of the knife doesn't seem clearly abusive. Spyderco's response is surprising, because their response seems inconsistent with what some in this community expect, especially considering Spyderco has established a norm of good values, communication, etc.

 

[Cvrobinson]

For the first time in my life, because of this thread, I cut drywall and I did it with a Native 5 REX-45, for the purpose of understanding drywall better.

I'm working with scraps leftover from a buddy's project. The first thing he asked me was "why would you use a knife for cutting drywall?" I explained this thread. He brought up using a utility knife, because its thin, and allows you to cut deeper, which gives a cleaner break. He said for long pieces, it's best to get about half way through to ensure a good break. Small pieces sometimes just need a pass or two.

I varied the pressure on different passes and despite my efforts to keep the knife at 90 degrees, I did notice there was some side to side.

I just played around a little and then cleaned the tip for the photo.

View attachment 1381165

For speed and efficiency, I can see why some guys use extremely high pressure and really muscle it. As previously stated, I've seen guys put their weight behind it.

Those scenarios Im sure can break Maxamet or S110V. They just absolutely are not the right steel for drywall, unless there's no other choice, and then I'd use only light to medium pressure.

Sounds scientific
First time cutting drywall and you publish your conclusions as a statement of fact.
Having recently built a house, doing the drywall myself, can say a light score, on a piece even 8 ft long, requires little pressure, not “extremely high pressure, really muscle it, with weight behind it” will break cleanly.
Score, snap, fold over, cut paper.
No dog in this discussion other than a novice (at drywall) proclaiming an understanding of the forces involved. Agreed drywall knives cut drywall best, but the conclusions you draw do not accurately reflect the stresses of a man scoring/cutting drywall properly puts on a blade.
As to the blade snapping, too many trusted members with the same story. Would like to hear Spyderco’s story also.

 

[SubMicron]

Sounds scientific
First time cutting drywall and you publish your conclusions as a statement of fact.
Having recently built a house, doing the drywall myself, can say a light score, on a piece even 8 ft long, requires little pressure, not “extremely high pressure, really muscle it, with weight behind it” will break cleanly.
Score, snap, fold over, cut paper.
No dog in this discussion other than a novice (at drywall) proclaiming an understanding of the forces involved. Agreed drywall knives cut drywall best, but the conclusions you draw do not accurately reflect the stresses of a man scoring/cutting drywall properly puts on a blade.
As to the blade snapping, too many trusted members with the same story. Would like to hear Spyderco’s story also.

I made my conclusions about the topic before scoring any drywall and they're based on what I've observed when some people cut drywall and what I believe to be true about Maxamet, a steel that I love.

As stated in this thread, over and over, some people use their full strength, with their bodyweight behind it to score drywall. That kind of force, or any kind of significant muscling of the knife versus Maxamet combined with the inability to prevent lateral forces, will break Maxamet. That should obvious for any scoring application when that much force is used. The topic of drywall isn't entirely relevant whereas the amount of pressure used is.

If you look, I've already pointed out that it does not require a lot of force to score drywall. Just because you do things one way doesn't mean others do it the same way.

I don't necessarily care what the right or wrong way is to score drywall. The point is that some people seem to use high pressure and I can see the advantages.

People who are newer to all of this end up searching Google about Maxamet toughness and breakage, they'll stumble into threads like this and read posts about the strength tests done by some, or the anecdotal feedback of others, and they assume Maxamet is bulletproof. They then end up pushing Maxamet or others to the point of failure and cant figure out what went wrong. Had Spyderco replaced the knife without hassles those same people would then expect the same when they break their's.

Again, I love Maxamet, that's why it's in my user rotation and why I used it as my avatar photo for this site. Maxamet is in fact very strong, just not against lateral side-to-side forces.

 

[insta9ves]

If spyderco could put in as much effort into their warranty & customer service as making sprint runs and exclusives...

If you can’t score a drywall with maxamet, what can you do with it? Cutting the tape off the amazon boxes? Letter opener? Slicing tomatoes? I guess you can’t cut apple too, since apple is hard and you have to put more force into the cut? Are knife manufacturer going to start listing stuff that their user can/cannot cut for each steel?

We need to take a step back and think about why we get into this hobby in the first place. If you are spending 5-10x what a normal person would for a knife and start getting analysis paralysis about what you can or cannot cut with it, perhaps it’s time to reevaluate your hobby.

“Doing the right things even when no one is watching”. Well, there are many people watching now spyderco.

 

[King of the Cheese]

As long as maxamet exists, we will see complaints from people that expected the glass of milk with the cookie.

Maxamet sacrifices TOUGHNESS for an edge that cuts forever.

If you’re going to cut drywall, get a knife with the toughness you need. Maxamet is NOT a tough steel. There is nothing WRONG with maxamet. It has been said time and time again: steel characteristics are a trade off. There is no steel that holds an edge as long as maxamet but has the toughness of 3V, M4, or 52100. It just doesn’t exist.

I’m siding with Spyderco here, and I think they made the right call. It isn’t incumbent upon the manufacturer to tutor knife purchasers on the do and do nots of particular types of steel.

Selecting the right tools for the job also means selecting the right steel for the task. Anyone ever stop to wonder why people don’t make survival fixed blades out of maxamet and s110v?

Spyderco had to draw a line somewhere and I very much doubt even Sal will dive into this disaster, and if he does, it isn’t the facts of the situation that brought him here, but more likely the complaining and “I’ll never buy another Spyderco again” type rants. Ganging up against a company because you’re sympathetic to the plight of someone that misused a pocket knife is not the way to go. How would Spyderco respond if this was the average user off the forum? That’s what we got, and it was the right response. Spyderco doesn’t have an unconditional no questions asked warranty. There are manufacturers that do... and guess what? The knives are on the “toughness” end of the spectrum for steel. Surprised? I’m not.
This isn’t “us” vs. “them”, I don’t have to take someone’s side because the manufacturer made a call that didn’t favor the end user’s satisfaction.

Would we all rather Spyderco just made M4 and M390, and never pushed the envelope all because of delicate sensitivities on intended use? I don’t think so.

 

[dcycleman]

Drywall is soft. All you are doing is scoring the first layer of paper so the gypsum breaks clean on that score line. I could do this successfully with a Swiss Army knife or any POS blade from a gas station. I guarantee.
To say that this is abuse of the blade is nonsense. (I would never do it with I knife I like because it dulls the edge super fast)
What exactly can you use it for then? Opening letters?
(Been in construction 20 years, so I feel confident in my statement)

 

[King of the Cheese]

Drywall is soft. All you are doing is scoring the first layer of paper so the gypsum breaks clean on that score line. I could do this successfully with a Swiss Army knife or any POS blade from a gas station. I guarantee.
To say that this is abuse of the blade is nonsense. (I would never do it with I knife I like because it dulls the edge super fast)
What exactly can you use it for then? Opening letters?
(Been in construction 20 years, so I feel confident in my statement)

I think you sort of answered your own question. Why would you NOT use a $200 knife to score drywall? Why would you use a SAK, carpenter’s knife, or gas station knife? Because if it BROKE, you would shrug your shoulders and buy another one or put in a new razor blade, not complain to the manufacturer.
The COST of the knife doesn’t correlate with the TOUGHNESS of the knife.

Why are there videos of people smashing $50 cold steel knives through logs, and not very many of fancy elder burl handled 3V BRKs getting batoned through wood?
The same reason you don’t see many people cutting drywall in half with a $200 Spyderco. Cost increase does very little to the PERFORMANCE of a knife, but if it breaks it causes a whole lot of heartache.

 

[on_the_edge]

I think you sort of answered your own question. Why would you NOT use a $200 knife to score drywall? Why would you use a SAK, carpenter’s knife, or gas station knife? Because if it BROKE, you would shrug your shoulders and buy another one or put in a new razor blade, not complain to the manufacturer.
The COST of the knife doesn’t correlate with the TOUGHNESS of the knife.

Why are there videos of people smashing $50 cold steel knives through logs, and not very many of fancy elder burl handled 3V BRKs getting batoned through wood?
The same reason you don’t see many people cutting drywall in half with a $200 Spyderco.

I'm sorry, but your posts beg the question: Have you taken any time to watch the videos from posts 153 and 155?

 

[King of the Cheese]

I'm sorry, but your posts beg the question: Have you taken any time to watch the videos from posts 153 and 155?

Sure have. Was there a part where someone was scoring, cutting, doing miscellaneous twisting in drywall that I missed? Maybe you could forward the “maxamet cutting drywall” video to me.

 

[jux t]

If scoring drywall broke the blade, then that seems to warrant a replacement IMO.

I’ve had the same less than satisfactory reply from Spyderco when I tried to have a warranty repair on a PM1 that had bad up/down play due to the compression lock going all the way over to the other scale when it was bought new. They sharpened it (I asked that they not sharpen it) and said that the play came from using it (it did not).

 

[King of the Cheese]

If scoring drywall broke the blade, then that seems to warrant a replacement IMO.

I’ve had the same less than satisfactory reply from Spyderco when I tried to have a warranty repair on a PM1 that had bad up/down play due to the compression lock going all the way over to the other scale when it was bought new. They sharpened it (I asked that they not sharpen it) and said that the play came from using it (it did not).

That the end user was simply “scoring” drywall is an assumption. I’m not calling anyone a liar, but no one would get on a knife forum and say “I hammered my maxamet into a 2x4 and used it as a springboard for my swimming pool”.

The plight of the customer always has a certain flavor of innocence you can count on, and a purposeful evasion of revealing the things they did wrong.

Again, not calling anyone a liar, but only one person here knows what ACTUALLY happened.

 

[on_the_edge]

Sure have. Was there a part where someone was scoring, cutting, doing miscellaneous twisting in drywall that I missed? Maybe you could forward the “maxamet cutting drywall” video to me.

Why can Maxamet break out pieces of aluminum and brass rods without chipping or breaking, but it can't adequately score a paper and gypsum piece of drywall without breaking farther back on a thicker part of the steel than the part of the blade that is actually in the drywall?