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My Manix 2 Maxamet Just Snapped !!

Discussion in 'Spyderco' started by OTF556, Jul 7, 2020.

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  1. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    If this was indeed a mistake to offer a steel that cannot hold up to normal use, whether by the nature of the material itself or temperamental results in production, the customer should not have to bear the weight of that error without warning.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  2. Twindog

    Twindog Gold Member Gold Member

    Apr 6, 2004
    Sorry for the OP's experience.

    I didn't see anyone talk about stress risers, but the Spyderco hole creates a weakness in the blade, a stress riser where the blade wants to break. And in this case, the sharp, straight plunge line adds another stress riser that goes directly into the hole. And there's a third stress riser in the jimping. Add in a hard, brittle steel, you you have a recipe for a break.

    I once had a Benchmade blade in M4, with the Spyderco hole, re-heat treated to 64 Rc. The blade was really brittle and broke under hand pressure as I was trying to get the blade to center properly.

    My guess is that Spyderco decided that it would take a lot more lateral pressure than the OP described to break the knife, and that's normally true. But any little weakness in the line of break, such as an inclusion, can make these hard blades vulnerable to a break along a stress riser that is stacked with a second stress riser and yet a third stress riser, as you can see in the OP's photo below this one.

    I consider three stacked stress risers on a brittle blade to be a design issue.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  3. SubMicron

    SubMicron Gold Member Gold Member

    335
    Feb 2, 2020
    The whole idea of Spyderco not selling Maxamet going forward, to me, is ridiculous.

    Should Ferarri stop making high performance cars because they're prone to breaking when driven at high speed while off road?

    Any amount of research on Maxamet will quickly cause you to know that it can easily break with lateral stress and is best used for volume cutting and not hard use such as in the trades, or construction, including scoring drywall, unless you're willing to assume the risks, or believe that you know what you're doing with regard to usage of the knife.

    Just because people stick their knife into a sheet of drywall and break it, does not mean something is wrong with the steel, or with the design.

    Any knife should be able to handle scoring drywall!!

    That's like saying any screw driver should be able to unscrew any screw.... I've never been able to get Phillip's screwdriver to unscrew a flathead screw... its clearly a design flaw!

    It's a matter of using the right tool for the job. A Manix 2 in Maxamet is a radically different tool than a Manix 2 in S30V which is also radically different than a Manix 2 in M4 or 4V.
     
    Anderdale and Roy Batty like this.
  4. Karl H

    Karl H

    86
    Apr 24, 2020
    There was a quite a bit of earlier discussion in this thread about the stress risers in the design. I agree with everything you say. Using a brittle blade material with such stress risers is a clearly design issue, as evidenced by the many recorded instances of Maxamet and S100v blades breaking at these stress risers.

    In my opinion, the only way that you could reasonably argue that this is not a design issue is if Spyderco very explicitly warned the user against using the blade in a ways that would cause it to break.

    When you combine: stress risers, brittle material, lack of warning, and unwillingness to offer a full refund - it’s hard to be supportive of this business practice. Hopefully, Spyderco will address one or more of these issues.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  5. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    So, you think that what the OP reported, if true, and the way spyderco handled it is Okay? Be clear. No walls of text. Simple question.
     
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  6. TRfromMT

    TRfromMT Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Jan 4, 2016
    I mentioned this a couple times and 100% agree the very design of a sharp-edge notch intersecting the spyder hole is a design flaw in this high hardness steel. If it's going to fail it will fail here.

    Some suggested a smaller diameter spyder hole. The hole is less of a problem than the way the plunge has essentially a 90degree inside corner (on both sides).

    Needs a gradual radius at the plunge.
     
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  7. SubMicron

    SubMicron Gold Member Gold Member

    335
    Feb 2, 2020
    The short answer is Yes.

    Scoring drywall simply is not an appropriate use of Maxamet, especially with the thinnest and longest blade stock option available from Spyderco in this steel.

    Any replacement thereof would simply be an act of generosity by Spyderco.

    With this thread being made on the forum, and the tone that it took, BEFORE Spyderco was given the opportunity to respond, I definitely would have used the opportunity to make an example so people stop using Maxamet for things it shouldn't be used for.
     
    AF and Roy Batty like this.
  8. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    Assuming the OP was actually just scoring drywall and that is it, this is not good.

    If a $200 knife can't score drywall, something that only uses the very tip of the blade, that is a design issue. What would be the point of having a Maxamet knife if it can't handle a small task like that?

    If we take the OP at their word, which I haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise, this is definitely Spyderco's issue.

    I'm a die hard Spyderco fan but this is not a good look. We will never know the actual number of these knives that have been returned but there's been what, three or four people in this thread reporting the exact same break?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  9. jacksterp

    jacksterp Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 3, 2011
    Boy, did Spyderco screw the pooch on this one.

    Sal and company should be ashamed...
     
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  10. SubMicron

    SubMicron Gold Member Gold Member

    335
    Feb 2, 2020
    Where does this expectation of unconditional blade replacement that some people have come from?
     
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  11. Eli Chaps

    Eli Chaps Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Apr 20, 2018
    I haven't seen anyone asking for "unconditional" replacement. What I have seen is people expressing their belief that this is a design issue on Spyderco's part. That makes it conditional.
     
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  12. jacksterp

    jacksterp Basic Member Basic Member

    Jun 3, 2011
    Buck, Benchmade (for a reasonable fee), other reputable companies?
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  13. nephron

    nephron Gold Member Gold Member

    Aug 3, 2017
    Its called "customer service". If there is more to this than I see here then it would be nice to have that information. I see Sal commenting on here all the time, I think it is a disservice not to give us all the information available, unless he has Covid or something like that. I can't see how replacing/fixing the knife would catastrophically affect their bottom line. However if this is an ongoing problem with customers trying to dupe Spyderco then OK I guess. Just seeing the amount of customers on here questioning this issue would definitely prompt a response from me if this was my business. Hopefully more will be revealed in the future.
     
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  14. Centuriator

    Centuriator Gold Member Gold Member

    462
    Jun 7, 2020
    Does anyone remember walking into a Sears store with a broken Craftsman tool and they handing you a new one? I had a Craftsman pocket knife as a kid and broke the blade off it doing something stupid with it, I'm sure, but my dad took me to Sears and the guy at the counter just reached for a new one and handed it to me. Very cool. Good memories. This was back in the late sixties/early seventies.
     
    4jlcc, GeofS, jacksterp and 1 other person like this.
  15. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    I think you can see that most disagree. In fact, spyderco has replaced blades that broke like this before, so in a way they disagree as well.

    Spyderco has had ample time to respond and has not done so. I'm hoping they will.
     
    marrenmiller and insta9ves like this.
  16. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    I'd have to guess it was something that happened to the blade prior to the scoring of the drywall. When steel starts cracking it can fail under minimal load. An impact, a chip, or bend or some other incident will start the countdown clock and if that happens there's nothing you can do.

    Things always tell the truth about why they fail.

    That letter does have a look of a sort of boilerplate form. It could be productive for Spyderco to expand on the detail of why they said no.

    Both to clear the air and for anyone with a knife in this steel.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  17. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    Does Sears still replace tools post bankruptcy?
     
    SubMicron and Centuriator like this.
  18. SubMicron

    SubMicron Gold Member Gold Member

    335
    Feb 2, 2020
    It is not a design issue. People dont buy high performance sports cars for off-roading.

    With almost any kind of scoring application, where medium to high pressure is required along with a length of reach that geometrically makes it impossible to precisely control the angle of the blade in relationship to what's being scored, would be the wrong usage profile for Maxamet.

    This isnt Buck or Benchmade, the steels they use are relatively inexpensive and idiot proof, and their heat treat protocols are over hyped.

    Had this been a different steel, I'm confident Spyderco would have handled it differently.

    Spyderco also makes knives with blades and steels that are idiot proof, virtually all of their knives in fact. Maxamet is not one of those products.

    I'm not a Spyderco customer because they make dumbed-down knives that look pretty and have warm and fuzzy warranties.

    I buy Spyderco knives because of the design, because of the steel choices, because of the usability, and because they're pushing the envelope of what is possible.

    A knife is a tool and the end user is responsible for using the right tool for the job.
     
    Anderdale, loon#r and Roy Batty like this.
  19. Centuriator

    Centuriator Gold Member Gold Member

    462
    Jun 7, 2020
    Anderdale, on_the_edge and craytab like this.
  20. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    Craftsman still has their great warranty on many tools like they have had in the past! I believe they are sold at a popular big box home improvement chain that is blue in color.
     
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