my sebenza v. para 2 rant

P

peeintheshower

Joined
Jul 21, 2012
Messages
345
so i would like to start of by saying that i am not trying to cause problems. I know the reasons why a sebenza is much more expensive then a spyderco. pride of ownership is a big part of this subject. i do not own the small sebenza, and i do own the para 2.

so i took in my cousin's small sebenza for a good sharpening two days ago, and i played with the knife and even carried it for a day. my favorite knife pre sebenza handling was and is the paramilitary two. I own the DLC coated para 2 with the camo blade.

para 2's pros
better jimping
smoother
easier to sharpen
the black coating didn't even wear off of the lock..
cheaper
the opening hole
bigger(does not really count, personal preference)
does not get freezing cold when i put it in my waist band
more comfortable

small sebenza's pros
rock solid blade in open position
titanium is cool.
perfect pocket clip
the people who make it
awesome lanyard.
rounded spine
looks nice with wear

what i really dislike about the small sebenza that makes me like my para more :
the damn pointy thumb stud destroys my thumb and tears off my skin.
the blade comes in contact with the lanyard and cuts it.
tha dried up grease in the pivot
the jimping does not grab

if the exact same knife as the sebenza was reproduced for the same price as the para 2.. i would have a hard time choosing.. i think that the pros in the para 2 just make the decision clear for me in a hypothetical 120$ sebenza situation. even still. they are both US made.

i believe i am not so fond of the sebenza because it is not mine if i owned it i might swear by the knife. it is made to cut and it is extremely capable at its job, but then again so is the para 2.

my conclusion is that i think that i am not ready to jump into higher end knives just yet. except i really want a hinderer/ZT . i do not feel or see the hype, and personaly i would not shell out that money for one. once again i am not hating. i just do not believe i am ready.

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I don't think you are causing any problems. You formed an opinion, thanks for sharing.

Both are fine knives.
 
Ya, sorry you don't have any perception of quality or cost of extremely precise tolerances.

Timex quartz are probly way better than Rolex automatics, I mean the timex keeps better time, hence probly better?!

These anti-reeve posts are fun after the first 100, now anyone who's pissed at the CRK price point should just do what anyone else does, and NOT BUY ONE. Thanks.
 
The large seb would be a better size comparison / better in general imo. There's just something special about getting that first $410 knife of your own that words can't quite explain. The day it arrives and your just blown away by the craftsmanship, then the following week or two where you don't use it for anything but paper and fondling. Then you will feel compelled to get your moneys worth and start using it, then before you know it your other knives have been shunned and that once outrageously expensive knife goes everywhere with you, has a scratched up clip, worn thumb stud and gets used for everything.

I haven't carried a para 2 since I've had my sebenza, both are capable knives but not really in the same league. I appreciate the exacting tolerances of CRK and despite looking so plain, they feel very alive in hand, I found the ergonomics were surprisingly excellent, paired with impeccable execution and some premium materials, you quickly see where all that money went.
 
The two knives are quite different IMO. I try not to compare my knives or knives in general to each other because they each have their own "personality". Just like how knives have different personality, people also have different tastes. Seeing how you have a para 2 with the black DLC and camo you're probably more favorable towards "tactical" knives.

A good analogy would be like beer vs. wine.... how could you even compare the two? Some people are beer drinkers and would never touch wine and that's fine. To each their own.
 
you write to speak your mind, which is good. it's no secret that a mass-produced product often has several advantages over a custom/semi-custom and pricing is just one of them. i just feel there was a miss in your review: fit and finish and workmanship. this is usually what's judged when it comes to "high-end" products.
 
Looks like you're not at the "sebenza" point in your collecting yet... I've been an avid knife collector and user for years, and I just didn't "get" CRKs for the longest time. They just didn't make sense to me. I own a Benchmade 943, which I considered dang pricey for a while, and I could not fathom how a knife could be worth 2.5 osbornes.

Buuuuut as time went by, I changed. This year I laid hands on a large sebenza again, and something was different. I now appreciate them for what they are, and my next purchase will be a large sebenza 21 with double lugs, as soon as cash permits.

I say all that to say: I get it. I know where you're coming from. But I honestly think "i don't understand sebenzas" would have been more succinct and less inflammatory. Maybe someday you'll get it, maybe not, either way, you're enjoying the hobby, and I respect that.
 
Once upon a time best meant performance and reliability eg, Rolls Royce, Rolex and Ferrari. Now that they've been bested by Toyota' Casio and Nissan we now go for percieved superiority and snob appeal.
 
Thrustus said:
Once upon a time best meant performance and reliability eg, Rolls Royce, Rolex and Ferrari. Now that they've been bested by Toyota' Casio and Nissan we now go for percieved superiority and snob appeal.
Click to expand...

No...Just...no.....
 
To say you have taken the time to digest all the in's and out's of these two knives and to form a proper opinion would be givng you far too much credit, IMO

They are both of course knives but that is right about where things start to differ. I have owned many Spydercos and still own a few now. They are fine knives and I would suggest them to any one. They are miles away from what a Sebenza is though. I can see why people don't feel the Sebenza is worth the money over other knives but there is a but. To say pride of ownership is what drives CRK owners in just nonsense, that is not what it's about. It does seem to be for those that look at CRK and search for reasons people buy them though.

Why do I like the Sebenza ? Because out of the many 100's of knives I have owned over the years it's the best folding knife I have found. Rather than harp on about them my self I will just address why do you not like the Sebenza, or really not like them as you say ?

the damn pointy thumb stud destroys my thumb and tears off my skin.
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Toughen up, I have never had any issues with the Sebenza hurting my hands and I just don't understand how people can. My friends 10 year old daugher uses my Sebenzas and Umnumzaans with out it hurting her hands so I think any grown man should be able to get past that one.

the blade comes in contact with the lanyard and cuts it.
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That is why they give you a lanyard pin. I see you have it in the pic so I'm not sure what you're on about ?

tha dried up grease in the pivot
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You can't blame CRK for the shelf life in their dealers shops and guess what ? You can dismantle the Sebenza, clean it and put it back together in a matter of minutes with out throwing your waranty out the window either.

the jimping does not grab
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What are you doing with your knife that you need any jimping never mind jimping that grabs ? Jimping is little more than a design flair and has little practical use if you can actually control your hands enough to hold the knife.

peeintheshower said:
so i would like to start of by saying that i am not trying to cause problems. I know the reasons why a sebenza is much more expensive then a spyderco. pride of ownership is a big part of this subject. i do not own the small sebenza, and i do own the para 2.

so i took in my cousin's small sebenza for a good sharpening two days ago, and i played with the knife and even carried it for a day. my favorite knife pre sebenza handling was and is the paramilitary two. I own the DLC coated para 2 with the camo blade.

para 2's pros
better jimping
smoother
easier to sharpen
the black coating didn't even wear off of the lock..
cheaper
the opening hole
bigger(does not really count, personal preference)
does not get freezing cold when i put it in my waist band
more comfortable

small sebenza's pros
rock solid blade in open position
titanium is cool.
perfect pocket clip
the people who make it
awesome lanyard.
rounded spine
looks nice with wear

what i really dislike about the small sebenza that makes me like my para more :
the damn pointy thumb stud destroys my thumb and tears off my skin.
the blade comes in contact with the lanyard and cuts it.
tha dried up grease in the pivot
the jimping does not grab

if the exact same knife as the sebenza was reproduced for the same price as the para 2.. i would have a hard time choosing.. i think that the pros in the para 2 just make the decision clear for me in a hypothetical 120$ sebenza situation. even still. they are both US made.

i believe i am not so fond of the sebenza because it is not mine if i owned it i might swear by the knife. it is made to cut and it is extremely capable at its job, but then again so is the para 2.

my conclusion is that i think that i am not ready to jump into higher end knives just yet. except i really want a hinderer/ZT . i do not feel or see the hype, and personaly i would not shell out that money for one. once again i am not hating. i just do not believe i am ready.

8078872154_b7a9d66648_b.jpg
Click to expand...
 
no way is this bashing sebenza's. it really is a true work of art. but as said above you cant compare beer to wine. i like the way that was put. for me in this moment of time i personally just like the para 2 better. i am sure one day i will get my own and see how awesome it is. i am just not prepared. the tolerances ARE perfect, which is a big plus and a big jump in price too, but i do not see why that would replace it with my loved para 2. at least for the moment. i am not pissed at the price point because that would mean i NEED one but cannot HAVE one. right now its a cool thing to me, but i need my para.

this thread can be useful for others who are thinking about getting into high ends. you have to remember that its just a knife, and for the novice knife collector who wants more and more knives, they will not really understand the sebenza, like me.
 
plus i am specifically talking about the sebenza small. you must remember it must a different feel then a large. i never handled a full size sebenza before. so all you people that have a full size cannot really relate to the para being more ergonomic, and also the thumb stud issue. the thumb choil is small in the small sebenza which might be causing my discomfort.

the sebenza is obviously much higher in quality. i am not saying the para 2 is better... but FOR ME(my day to day cutting tasks, size of my hands), it is more USEFUL.
 
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peeintheshower said:
plus i am specifically talking about the sebenza small. you must remember it must a different feel then a large. i never handled a full size sebenza before. so all you people that have a full size cannot really relate to the para being more ergonomic, and also the thumb stud issue. the thumb choil is small in the small sebenza which might be causing my discomfort.

the sebenza is obviously much higher in quality. i am not saying the para 2 is better... but FOR ME(my day to day cutting tasks, size of my hands), it is more USEFUL.
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You are saying it's "better" and you are quite with in your rights to think that. It is up to you to make that decision based on the experiences you have had. There is no doubt a bit of getting used to with any knife that is not your regular carry piece and I think this is where your "discomfort" comes from.
I do carry a large Sebenza and there is a difference in the large and small that you will notice right away if you get the chance to play with one. I was perhaps a little quick to jump on you as there has been some trolling of CRK lately but you don't look like you're in that crowd so I'll step off. :p

One thing to consider is that there are Sebenzas out there that have 10+ years of use behind them with many more years to go. The knife I have in my pocket right now was made in 2003, although I'm not the original owner. That is what CRK is about, the long life you will get from a Sebenza. The knife will do the same thing for years and years with out wearing in or out to any amount worth shouting about. There is also the option of having the knife refubished back to basically new at any time. Those are some of the reasons why CRK is worth paying for, IMO. The engineering and tolerances are either going to be your thing or they're not. I can't fault any one for not caring about the same things I do in a knife. :)
 
The problem is the para 2 is such a great knife,it seems to be able to rival many higher end blades for less.i have 2 myself, there is so much going for them,i cant really find anything negative about them.
 
I find it truly hard to believe that the Para 2 is "Smoother"??? What do you mean, please emphasize.

And by bigger you must mean overall size because cutting edge is very similar to the two knives.

Otherthan those two aspects, to each his own. If you are happier with the Para 2 good on you man, buy 2 or 3 for the price of the Sebenza.
 
The thing is, from what I've seen pretty much half the things that are involved in operating and using a knife on a daily basis constitute "abuse" of a CRK. The para 2 is intended as a hard use knife with a lot of thought going into the design, with the base level s30v not being considered a collector's knife. Any CRK can be used the same way, but the stiff warranty indicates that though they can perform as well they are intended as fine collectibles that double as a gentleman's knife. It is a matter of preference and some people consider such an expensive knife within their "daily use budget. I personally do not, as I tend to be rather hard on my knife and do not enjoy the idea of spending another $400+ to replace my pocket favorite. They are two different schools of thought, and seeing where your mind lies I recommend that, if you choose to spend that much on a folder, you choose it based on enhanced steels/performance/durability/ergonomics. There are plenty of beastly knives that are every bit worth the price tag when regarded from either perspective. I myself like Darrell Ralph knives quite a lot, and could see myself being pretty rough on them.
 
I see this as having two sons - which in fact I do. One may get good grades, be a good kid and be better at football, whereas the other may get good grades, be a good kid and be better at calculus. They are nevertheless both good kids who do well, and you love them both equally. The Para 2 excels at somethings (ease of deployment, scale size, cost, etc.) and the small Sebenza excels at others (materials, tolerances, etc.), and to me this isn't an "either or" scenario. They are both good kids who are good using their talents.
 
Honestly with the way the market is now, now i cant really say because i dont have a sebenza (handled one one time in a knife shop while on vacation) It was a nice blade, a great blade, but i think you can get just as good quality and materials with just as good of a warranty for half the price. I think CRK now i dont want to say hype but its more of a "WOW its a Chris Reeve" more then anything else.
 
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