Natural Outlaw died! I shocked...

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UffDa said:
I have only seen 3 other broken Busse's before this one. The first was an early Steel Heart. The point was clamped in a vise and a large pipe was applied to the handle. The tip broke off.
The second was an ice pick (I think) that was hammered into a log or concrete block (?) and kicked out. The third was a basic 7 that our Canadian friend abused. It was
ground, hammered, beaten and hammered into a tree to use as a step. It took over two years to break it.

This one has to be a freak occurrence.
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The second you mention was actually a skeleton key. The basic 7 was highly modified including being thinned down and having a knotch ground into the back, and was pounded through quite a bit of metal.

With these there was also a game warden that had it's tip broken off (I forget how but it was a pretty hard use situation). 430 grain had a tip break off a boss street when trying to pry a peice of work out of a machining vise. He also tore up a sarsquatches edge that was ground down to .010" or so at the edge while chopping frozen wood. OwenM (I think) broke either a basic 5 or 7 while breaking apart pallets. There was an ash1 that appeared to have a sub-dime sized tearout/possibly chip from slamming into an old rusted heavy gauge chain. Noss has broken several, but all were intentially broken.

All were understandable leavels of damage given the tasks they were employed in. This knife appears to suffered catastrophic failure simply from chopping birch, which is what leads me to question what was done to the knife during modification. Knives break, but if you know the quality of the steel and how it breaks, you should be able to expect it to behave in a certain way - and this is not it at all.
 
Last Visible Canary said:
The second you mention was actually a skeleton key. The basic 7 was highly modified including being thinned down and having a knotch ground into the back, and was pounded through quite a bit of metal.

With these there was also a game warden that had it's tip broken off (I forget how but it was a pretty hard use situation). 430 grain had a tip break off a boss street when trying to pry a peice of work out of a machining vise. He also tore up a sarsquatches edge that was ground down to .010" or so at the edge while chopping frozen wood. OwenM (I think) broke either a basic 5 or 7 while breaking apart pallets. There was an ash1 that appeared to have a sub-dime sized tearout/possibly chip from slamming into an old rusted heavy gauge chain. Noss has broken several, but all were intentially broken.

All were understandable leavels of damage given the tasks they were employed in. This knife appears to suffered catastrophic failure simply from chopping birch, which is what leads me to question what was done to the knife during modification. Knives break, but if you know the quality of the steel and how it breaks, you should be able to expect it to behave in a certain way - and this is not it at all.
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Skeleton Key. Right. I couldn't remember which knife it was except that it was thin. I have pictures somewhere of the broken Basic 7. I was amazed at the abuse it took. I was not aware of all the other ones. Still, how many other knives could stand up to that abuse?

I broke a knife once doing some light prying and twisting. I suspected that the blade was hardened, but somehow missed the tempering process. Hey! Things happen.
 
I'm trying to understand this. GA-Perm-2 are you saying you sent it back to Jerry 6 months ago?
 
The first owner of a knife has cleaned a covering an emery paper. Machine tools didn't use.
Then the knife has been sold to me. I have sold a knife to the following owner. The knife has broken at it. He wrote Jerry Busse. While a knife haven't replaced.
But have promised to replace.
 
GA-Perm-2 said:
He wrote Jerry Busse. While a knife haven't replaced.
But have promised to replace.
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How long has that been?
Get him to send another email.

It may be on the way, but won't hurt to check and see if its been shipped.
 
My sincerest admiration for a company that stands behind their product. Good on ya Busse! :thumbup:
 
Ill translate the stuff the owner of the broken knife says
"Cant put in the photo,did not hit any nails"
"Respectable Valerius,if you dont mind could you post a photo of the part where it broke,if its not a problem"
"After the weekend I will,the knife broke as I hit the wood,no lateral stress,I posted on Bladeforums and some think I nailed it into wood and used either a sledge or a baton on the handle,I honestly didnt think that I'd get such a wild reaction and I didnt even think about the warranty-the knife has many years on it and im not the 1st owner,I thought the comrades would get together,take off their hats,sigh and that'd be it,all in all thank you for participating and I hope that the story will recieve a continuation"
"More detailed photos"
Someone questioned the owners integrity by saying that Busse is known for its "cant kill me,ever" reliability,from what he can see its either a lie or misuse
"No lie or misuse,Ill ship it off to the manufacturer and he'll decide"
Long story short the old owner said that he took the coating off,the current owner said he shipped the knife off,waiting for response,he's not happy with the wait,he also mentions about not knowing about the warranty but since its there why not
Jerry's response
"I did not forget about you my friend. . .. We have the test results back and they are very interesting to say the least.
I will forward our analysis onto you this week.
Thanks for your patience,"
"Jerry wrote 2 weeks ago and said that the blade under polishing(coating removal) was overheated and at the ricasso and was at 64rc,regardless of the words of no manufacturing fault he will cover the blade under the warranty"

From what I understand the old owner overdid it with coating removal,the new owner tried chopping and it failed,truth or not the warranty prevailed.
I hope my translation helped shed some light onto this.
 
very interesting. I remember reading somewhere that in order to affect the heat treat of INFI you have to go over 900 degrees. If someone polishing a blade gets it that hot, they could not possibly touch it, and anyone doing that would be a maroon ;). Was there any response from the person that did the polishing? The Rc of 64 probably would not be the issue, but the ruining of the HT would.
 
Thanks for the translation.

Ramil839 said:
"Jerry wrote 2 weeks ago and said that the blade under polishing(coating removal) was overheated and at the ricasso and was at 64rc,regardless of the words of no manufacturing fault he will cover the blade under the warranty"
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...and that's why I always have a water bath next to my little belt grinder!

Great to hear that even though this really does sound like a user-caused problem (as strongly suspected) Busse will still sort things out!
 
foxyrick said:
...and that's why I always have a water bath next to my little belt grinder! 64rc... ouch!

Great to hear that even though this really does sound like a user-caused problem (as strongly suspected) Busse will still sort things out!
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I am sure that guy did as well, hence the Rc of 64. There is no way you will get an Rc of 64 by overheating a blade and letting it air cool. It will actually soften considerably. However, he probably got the blade super hot 900+ because he did not dip it in water every few passes. Then when he was all finished and the thing was at peak temp he quenched it in the water bath, lol.
 
Cobalt said:
very interesting. I remember reading somewhere that in order to affect the heat treat of INFI you have to go over 900 degrees. If someone polishing a blade gets it that hot, they could not possibly touch it, and anyone doing that would be a maroon ;). Was there any response from the person that did the polishing? The Rc of 64 probably would not be the issue, but the ruining of the HT would.
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Not about polishing,one of the owners (i think there are 3?) said that the knife never got used hard,but as far as i can see nothing about getting a knife hot enough to melt the handles.
I've polished a few knives,can someone explain how you would get it to anywhere near 900 degrees with a buffing wheel?Or does my method differ from others?Im not an expert by any means but dont temperatures like that make the blade change colour and be extremely hard to hold?
Who knows why or how it happened,could be the owner,could be Busse but at least the warranty is there.I cant bash the owner too much because I've broken vices by cranking them,hammers,screwdrivers,pretty much the things you'd consider fool proof and Im starting to like Busse much more because they stand behind their product.
 
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