Natural Outlaw died! I shocked...

[dingy]

where is the boss or costomer service girl ?

i knew the warranty of busse is great , do not worry about that , man.

you can send a message to the boss Jerry or make a phone call to company.

 

[Cobalt]

you won't melt the micarta. Micarta is tough and resilient and the heat on the blade will not affect the handles much. Busse is replacing but I would like to know what was done in polishing to so damage the blade. If they Rc'd the blade to 64, then someone heated it and quenched it in water to get that.

 

[Ramil839]

you won't melt the micarta. Micarta is tough and resilient and the heat on the blade will not affect the handles much. Busse is replacing but I would like to know what was done in polishing to so damage the blade. If they Rc'd the blade to 64, then someone heated it and quenched it in water to get that.

As far as I understand he used small grit sandpaper on a rubber disk (?) and hand polished it,no other details were given and no description of overheating.

 

[hunterseeker5]

very interesting. I remember reading somewhere that in order to affect the heat treat of INFI you have to go over 900 degrees. If someone polishing a blade gets it that hot, they could not possibly touch it, and anyone doing that would be a maroon . Was there any response from the person that did the polishing? The Rc of 64 probably would not be the issue, but the ruining of the HT would.

I don't purport to be an expert on this subject, but two quick things:

First I'd be extremely surprised if you had to get to 900F to ruin the HT on a busse. Most are significantly lower than that, particularly low alloy steels, and even the extreme high heat steels only go as far as 1000F. http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/highspeed/cpm121.html Of course Nitrogen is screwball which leads me into my next point

Nitrogen is weird stuff. That nickel-nitrogen steel H1 is precipitation hardened and some amount of heat and mechanical force will harden it. Granted thats just a surface hardening, but thats where cracks form to propagate.

I'm not in the least bit saying I have even the foggiest idea I know what either happened here, or how to HT INFI, I'm just saying it'd really surprise me if you had to go as high as 900 to ruin the HT on a Busse. I mean that'd be fantastic news, yet another miracle performed by INFI, I just would be very surprised.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I don't purport to be an expert on this subject, but two quick things:

First I'd be extremely surprised if you had to get to 900F to ruin the HT on a busse. Most are significantly lower than that, particularly low alloy steels, and even the extreme high heat steels only go as far as 1000F. http://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/highspeed/cpm121.html Of course Nitrogen is screwball which leads me into my next point

Nitrogen is weird stuff. That nickel-nitrogen steel H1 is precipitation hardened and some amount of heat and mechanical force will harden it. Granted thats just a surface hardening, but thats where cracks form to propagate.

I'm not in the least bit saying I have even the foggiest idea I know what either happened here, or how to HT INFI, I'm just saying it'd really surprise me if you had to go as high as 900 to ruin the HT on a Busse. I mean that'd be fantastic news, yet another miracle performed by INFI, I just would be very surprised.

Quote from the Man, Busse him self: (from an old thread in 2000)

As for INFI and temperature extremes, it is amazing. INFI is tempered at nearly 950 degrees. It does not begin to lose any significant hardness until it is held above 1050 degrees for a considerable amount of time. I have to believe that it would need to be extremely mishandled in order to do any noticeable damage.

Most of the simpler high carbon steels (of which INFI is NOT a member) can be drawn down in temper in a matter of seconds if the temperature hits above 500 - 800 degrees. Along the thin edge of a knife, a buffer or dremel can produce this level of heat and can cause serious damage if not executed by a professional. Always check the grade of steel and heat-treat specs. before assassinating it with the dremel tool Uncle Leo gave you for Christmas. Always keep the steel cool to the touch and you should be fine.

As far as INFI is concerned, care for and feed it like a friend. If the blade does get warm pour beer over it to cool it down. Stories out of Africa indicate that “Beer Tempering” only increases the performance of the steel. Is this true? I question nothing I hear from our friends in Africa.

Jerry Busse



[This message has been edited by Jerry Busse (edited 03-06-2000).]

 

[knife hunter]

Looks like someone stuck it in tree and then whacked/kicked it sideways to cause the lateral stress needed...

interesting

 

[hunterseeker5]

Quote from the Man, Busse him self: (from an old thread in 2000)

That is amazing. Thanks for digging that up. Must be the nitrogen, because another low alloy steel like A8 is tempered in the 480 and up range.

 

[CommackBoy]

I am Russian and can actually read what they said They did not say anything bad at all and praised the INFI steel. Now, they are in siberia, it could be because of huge swings in temperature? May be they brought it from a warm house into a -40 cold? I am just guessing here. They are also saying they will contact the company and try to fix it under warranty. The knife is a real knife and not a knock off.

 

[Jroden5446]

The look of the plunge line and the absence of INFI dimples on the ricasso and butt make me think machine.

 

[Cobalt]

The look of the plunge line and the absence of INFI dimples on the ricasso and butt make me think machine.

yes, if that was a coated blade and there are no more dimples then someone really ground it down.

 

[LINK80]

It looks like it may have been hard chromed, from what I can see in the pics. That would make sense as hard chrome can make thinner metals brittle at stress points. I don't know why anyone would hard chrome a blade though. For that reason I would say it's highly unlikely.

 

[Short-Tang]

In Soviet Russia, Birch chop Infi!

LOL! I love it!

 

[PeterPHWS]

The main thing is that the knife is going to be replaced under the warranty:thumbup:

The "ghetto satining" of CG Infi blades has been going on for years - I have had over 40 Busse's and at a guess I must have done 10 to 15 ... and there are blades I have altered the grind profile on ... TTKZ'S, KZII's, NMFBM's, Skinny Ash and Satin Jacks, BWM's ( even sharpened the clip point on that which involved grinding the clip a fair old bit ) ... all of these knives have gone through loads of trees ... and whilst I don't let the knife get hot ... I know how much grinding it takes to get the knife "hot" ... and by that I simply mean hot to the touch ... the removal of tool marks and dimples in no way gets the knife to anything like as hot as even a cup of coffee ... so less than 100 degrees ... I have touched car bonnets in Iraq which were hotter from sunshine ... so giving the knife a ghetto satin work over to remove dimples and tool marks once stripped will in no way bring about a re-tempering of the steel if using belt sanders or vibration sanders ... on that I am positive. You would need to radically alter the whole size and shape of the blade before severe heat started to build which would affect the HT. The sort of work I did when I altered the rear handle shape on my KZII by grinding it down ... now that was a task which needed to be done with rest periods to avoid heat ... but that is wholly different to buffing out tool marks for a ghetto satin look.

So whatever happened to the knife to cause an altered HT was not the polish job ... you would need to start with a Mistress and polish it to a NO-e to get the heat going like that ... or simply saying it ... the amount of metal removed would be seriously noticeable to create that amount of heat.

 

[J85909266]

Difficult to say what exactly happened. It could have even been a lemon from the Busse Shop, and the sanding and polishing done may not have been the reason it broke. Obviously, the hardness and tempering was off, which is what caused the failure. Nobody's perfect. Faulty products happen. No need to make a conspiracy of it. The warranty is being honored, and that's what matters.

 

[PeterPHWS]

Difficult to say what exactly happened. It could have even been a lemon from the Busse Shop, and the sanding and polishing done may not have been the reason it broke. Obviously, the hardness and tempering was off, which is what caused the failure. Nobody's perfect. Faulty products happen. No need to make a conspiracy of it. The warranty is being honored, and that's what matters.

I agree :thumbup:

 

[Valerii]

Difficult to say what exactly happened. It could have even been a lemon from the Busse Shop, and the sanding and polishing done may not have been the reason it broke. Obviously, the hardness and tempering was off, which is what caused the failure. Nobody's perfect. Faulty products happen. No need to make a conspiracy of it. The warranty is being honored, and that's what matters.

This history with a guarantee about my knife. I even was specially registered here. I wait more than 6 months for the decision from Jerry (it received a knife in September 2012). To me it is unclear why decision-making takes so much time. At all I don't know what to think.

 

[unklfranco]

Damn. That is a sad sight to see

 

[foxyrick]

At all I don't know what to think.

I would think: it is a remarkably good company that will honour a warranty on a knife that:

1) has exchanged owners more than once;
2) was originally sold many years ago;
3) has obviously been modified to some extent.

Of course the company wants to examine the knife and determine why the damage has occurred. This takes time. "Two weeks" is an often-cited Busse time-scale (use search, it is meant to be 'tongue-in-cheek', not literally two weeks.)

I'm not saying that you have damaged the knife by polishing it, I am saying that many companies would immediately refuse to honour their warranty just because of the modification. Many companies would not even bother to examine the knife, they would not even talk to you, whether you post on their forum or not.

The Busse warranty is the best I have ever seen, and in this case has been honoured even when there is doubt (to the audience, at least) as to the root cause of the problem.

I would think: "I am very fortunate to own a Busse!"

 

[Cobalt]

It's not about the warranty, as everyone here knows it's covered. The actual reason for it's break is the real question. I took and blew up the good quality picture of the knife above. What that revealed is that a circular type buffer/sander was used. you can see the circle that it made.

here is what other companies will tell you:

Furthermore, do not try to polish a blade by using a buffing wheel!!! This damages the steel by causing localized heating which then alters its microcrystalline structure.

from here:

http://www.scnf.org/polish.html


Not saying that is why it broke, but it is quite obvious that a buffing wheel was used. I have seen the heat a buffer can make on steel and aluminum and it is high. Again, warranty is not the issue here, the reason for the fracture is

 

[knife hunter]

Another reason is that blade hasnt been available in 12 years from Busse since its making in 2001. THey are probably digging thru old blanks as we speak.

Now, it might take awhile maybe even some luck:thumbup: