Natural Outlaw died! I shocked...

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The knife hasn't actually been warrantied yet since the guy doesn't have a new knife or shop credit. 6 weeks would be one thing - 6 months isn't right. If it's going to be warrantied then it should have been handled by now IMO.
 
remmmm said:
The knife hasn't actually been warrantied yet since the guy doesn't have a new knife or shop credit. 6 weeks would be one thing - 6 months isn't right. If it's going to be warrantied then it should have been handled by now IMO.
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In fairness these are my views too. 6 months is a long time.

As to "what happened"? Let's speculate a bit more .... the crack occurs right along the plunge line ... that is caused by the high speed grinding you talk about Cobalt when the knife is ground from flat bar stock to create the flat grind of the blade ... now after that the knife needs to undergo a HT which hardens and subsequently tempers the blade with various heat soaks and then in Busse's case the knives are cyrogenically cooled to relieve the stress in the steel ... what if a knife was ground and missed the HT altogether? What if the first stage only was done and the tempering missed?

How is it that this break very much resembles the break in the Chris Reeve Green Beret Noz test - where the knife was sent back to CR and they confirmed the knife had a defective HT ?

OR

How likely is it that you can take a properly applied Heat Treated Busse and by "buffing" as opposed to "grinding" create a stess line right along the plunge line where the "grinding" meets the flat bar stock? What temperatures are needed ? Jerry indicates over 900 degrees for a considerable time ... and how do you get that outside of an oven ?

Then for the consipracy theory of deliberately damaging the knife by kicking it and/or flexing it after locking it into a vise ? Well, as Jerry has said already, the knife is at Rc 65 not Rc 58-59 ... normal properly HT'ed Busse's with stock that thick have laughed off tests like that with Noz ... so whichever way you look at it the break was caused by the high Rc hardness ... not by "abuse" and under previous warrantied knives these type of actions have not been deemed "abuse". ( Skeleton Key wedged into a pavement and kicked and snapped ).

So the bottom line is what caused the knife to get to Rc 65 and fracture along the plunge line ? Buffing is not going to create 900 degrees plus for a considerable period of time ... but would grinding the knife from bar stock and missing the HT out ? Would doing just the first high heat hardening and missing the subsequent tempering quenches ?

As you know my opinion is that the knife almost certainly is more likely to have missed a full and proper Busse Heat Treatment at some stage ... each to their own though as to what they hold as "opinions" because ultimately we are only "guessing" ...

However, Jerry has said he would look after the guy and the guy has been really patient and IMO deserves a break ( pun intended ;) )

Hopefully Jerry will be in touch with the guy soon :thumbup:
 
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Sorry for the delay guys. If you double check, I believe you will see where we received the knife in late September. So, although broken 6 months ago, I believe we have had it for far less than that. Either way, we have been digging for a blank with no luck. We will be issuing a shop credit for the broken blade. We have never not honored our warranty. ... Never!...even when some blades were intentionally destroyed.

As for the Ergo Natural Outlaw in question. I will try to give a comprehensive explanation to the cause of the break within the next few days.

We have sold tens of thousands of INFI blades since their introduction..... How cool is it that news of a break is so unusual and so noteworthy? ....... Killer cool !!!

All is well. . . . All is cool. . . . And best of all. . . . All is warranted!

Let's drink!

Jerry
 
I think Jerry hears this a lot, but to quote a certain unnamed enthusiastic man in a Busse youtube video "YOU DA MAN JERRY!!!!!!"

All this said I have a somewhat more grim comment to make. As someone who has shipped quite a few things internationally, Russia is by a HUGE margin one of the worst. (and that goes both ways, things coming from Russia going to the US have issues to, I guess some people haven't forgotten about the whole cold war thing yet) Long story short? Godspeed to that package, I know if we were putting wagers down on its arrival I'd be betting against it. :(

All this said I'd bet Busse wouldn't terribly mind it if we just dropped this whole subject. ;) Its pretty messy in here.
 
Jerry Busse said:
Sorry for the delay guys. If you double check, I believe you will see where we received the knife in late September. So, although broken 6 months ago, I believe we have had it for far less than that. Either way, we have been digging for a blank with no luck. We will be issuing a shop credit for the broken blade. We have never not honored our warranty. ... Never!...even when some blades were intentionally destroyed.

As for the Ergo Natural Outlaw in question. I will try to give a comprehensive explanation to the cause of the break within the next few days.

We have sold tens of thousands of INFI blades since their introduction..... How cool is it that news of a break is so unusual and so noteworthy? ....... Killer cool !!!

All is well. . . . All is cool. . . . And best of all. . . . All is warranted!

Let's drink!

Jerry
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That is an interesting way to look at this, and accurate as well! Very cool..
 
Very Strange, it could just be an outlier, one on the extreme end of the bell curve. These knives are so darn durable where the majority would never break chopping wood, but for some reason this knife had a rare weak point and just snapped. Always Possible but highly improbable. Rare indeed.
 
I lived in Bulgaria for 2 years. While not Russia, it is eastern Europe. I had a package shipped 2 week guaranteed delivery. It took 7 months for me to receive it. The package made it to Bulgaria in a week. To a post office a block away. Then Sat there for seven months.

Hopefully this customer can get his knife when it ships.


As always, Busse comes through.
 
Jerry Busse said:
Sorry for the delay guys. If you double check, I believe you will see where we received the knife in late September. So, although broken 6 months ago, I believe we have had it for far less than that. Either way, we have been digging for a blank with no luck. We will be issuing a shop credit for the broken blade. We have never not honored our warranty. ... Never!...even when some blades were intentionally destroyed.

As for the Ergo Natural Outlaw in question. I will try to give a comprehensive explanation to the cause of the break within the next few days.

We have sold tens of thousands of INFI blades since their introduction..... How cool is it that news of a break is so unusual and so noteworthy? ....... Killer cool !!!

All is well. . . . All is cool. . . . And best of all. . . . All is warranted!

Let's drink!

Jerry
Click to expand...


So it's been a month now...where is the "comprehensive explanation of the cause"? Jerry??
 
Knife didn't replace. 3 weeks wait for the answer to the letter.
It is a lot of conversations and few affairs. Excuse, but everything was very much tightened. I hope, it not specially.
I will try to explain the opinion once again. For Jerry.
If your guarantee works in this case (and you exactly so at a forum wrote and in correspondence with me), I would like to receive knife replacement. If you don't provide a choice - then approximately by the size such knife as at me was. I didn't ask the same model (I understand that it isn't issued).
I in Russia bought this knife a year ago for $400 (the price of many knifes with the fixed blade is high because of complexity of delivery to Russia).
If you replace a knife (the address for sending I sent Lexi) - to Russia I will pay about $150 for the guaranteed delivery.
2nd option:
If you don't want to change a knife but only you offer the credit of $267 - I agree to receive as return this sum (though it less than that sum which I paid for a knife). Write and I will send requisites of the account of the company in the European bank on which it is possible to make payment without problems.
and 3rd option:
Anything.
I more than anything from you don't wait and it allows me to draw the conclusions on your knifes, a guarantee and the attitude towards clients.

All the best,
Valerii.
 
Valerii said:
Knife didn't replace. 3 weeks wait for the answer to the letter.
It is a lot of conversations and few affairs. Excuse, but everything was very much tightened. I hope, it not specially.
I will try to explain the opinion once again. For Jerry.
If your guarantee works in this case (and you exactly so at a forum wrote and in correspondence with me), I would like to receive knife replacement. If you don't provide a choice - then approximately by the size such knife as at me was. I didn't ask the same model (I understand that it isn't issued).
I in Russia bought this knife a year ago for $400 (the price of many knifes with the fixed blade is high because of complexity of delivery to Russia).
If you replace a knife (the address for sending I sent Lexi) - to Russia I will pay about $150 for the guaranteed delivery.
2nd option:
If you don't want to change a knife but only you offer the credit of $267 - I agree to receive as return this sum (though it less than that sum which I paid for a knife). Write and I will send requisites of the account of the company in the European bank on which it is possible to make payment without problems.
and 3rd option:
Anything.
I more than anything from you don't wait and it allows me to draw the conclusions on your knifes, a guarantee and the attitude towards clients.

All the best,
Valerii.
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Valerii,

I will share here what was stated to you privately in an email from Jerry. Your knife was modified by a third party individual. The buffing that was done on the blade was done to such an extreme temperature that it changed the surface hardness of the steel. This is what led to the failure. Generally, we do not warrant work that has been done by third party people. However, we graciously made an exception for you and issued you a $267.00 shop credit. This shop credit can be used for any Busse Combat knife that you so choose. The shop credit was issued for $267.00 as that was what we sold the knife for when it was offered through Busse Combat.

You may, at anytime, redeem your $267.00 shop credit. This shop credit is none transferrable and may be used on any "Busse Combat" knife that is available.

Thanks
Garth
 
Garth Reckner said:
Valerii,

I will share here what was stated to you privately in an email from Jerry. Your knife was modified by a third party individual. The buffing that was done on the blade was done to such an extreme temperature that it changed the surface hardness of the steel. This is what led to the failure. Generally, we do not warrant work that has been done by third party people. However, we graciously made an exception for you and issued you a $267.00 shop credit. This shop credit can be used for any Busse Combat knife that you so choose. The shop credit was issued for $267.00 as that was what we sold the knife for when it was offered through Busse Combat.

You may, at anytime, redeem your $267.00 shop credit. This shop credit is none transferrable and may be used on any "Busse Combat" knife that is available.

Thanks
Garth
Click to expand...

http://www.bussecombat.com/knives/index.shtml

Here's what available to order right now, may I suggest the Anniversary Mean Street?;)
 
I understand where you are coming from, but the reality is that you are lucky to be able to replace your Outlaw with a Mean Street.

Your knife was modified, therefore voided the warranty on the knife from Busse Combat. Jerry Busse went so far as to honor the warranty despite this fact, which is very gracious of him.

You could always pay $70 more and get a Team Gemini LB, which is an excellent knife and a couple inches longer than the Natural Outlaw.
 
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