Need AXE (possibly multiples) selection help...

G-pig said:
We talk about vintage axes a lot, and with saws its pretty much the only option. The crosscut saw company in new york makes them new, but they run 200 dollars and pretty much require a complete overhaul of straightening, jointing and then usual filing. Ebay is probably the best place to find old vintage saws for under 50 or 60 bucks. I just did a quick once over and didnt see any plain tooths on there, but i will shoot you a message if anything pops up.


could give a quick list of the kinds of woods you want to use this one? Doesnt need to be super specific, but just what you have a lot of on this property.

3.5 is heavy for an axe. A good general weight but for lots of cutting and hewing you might want something lighter. Old heads can be had for 10 or 20 bucks so its not as if you cant add more later (you probably will :))
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I'll have to start taking a look at vintage saws then. There is seriously no one out there that makes a good saw these days? The war on self-reliance never seems to slow down.

I have been looking more at vintage axes and it's hard to find anything under 3 pounds 6 ounces. What if I were to get a 3.5 pound vintage axe and a Husqvarna Carpenter's Axe (2.2 lb head)? Do you think that would help bridge the gap? I am not opposed to getting two or three axes and a saw. I would like to keep the budget to around $270 for axes and a saw.
 
Survivormind said:
Is this the kind of teeth you are talking about? Does anyone know anything regarding the quality of these saws?
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.co...-Handle-Made-in-Germany/productinfo/501-0980/

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.co...g-Timber-Saw-56-Germany/productinfo/400-1400/
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A guy on BCUSA forum compared one of these to a vintage saw and these were thinner steel and needed profiling and evening of the teeth. Often a used vintage saw needs filing too but you should be able to find one cheaper. I wouldn't say these are bad saws though, I don't know.

Another option for firewood is a bow saw. A 30 or 36 inch will cut a lot of wood. I spent 2 winters cutting all my firewood with a 30" saw made by Sandvik. The saws are cheap and the thin disposable blades last a long time. Try to get swedish blades if you go that route.
 
Survivormind said:
I'll have to start taking a look at vintage saws then. There is seriously no one out there that makes a good saw these days? The war on self-reliance never seems to slow down.

I have been looking more at vintage axes and it's hard to find anything under 3 pounds 6 ounces. What if I were to get a 3.5 pound vintage axe and a Husqvarna Carpenter's Axe (2.2 lb head)? Do you think that would help bridge the gap? I am not opposed to getting two or three axes and a saw. I would like to keep the budget to around $270 for axes and a saw.
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It's sad. Mostly the peoples fault though, most people are downright hostile towards hand labor. Hard work = success, except apparently real hardwork doesnt count. only office drudgery, picking up phones, etc. the kind of work that is only hard because you hate it. doesnt appeal to me which is why I'm still unemployed and dont drive a car or anything.

Survivormind said:
Forgot to answer this one. It's mostly ponderosa pine.
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Thats primo stuff for a plain tooth. They dont work great in hardwood (they will still cut) but cut softwood great. I cut about 2 cords of pine a couple years ago using exclusively a plain tooth and a double bitted axe.

Survivormind said:
Is this the kind of teeth you are talking about? Does anyone know anything regarding the quality of these saws?
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.co...-Handle-Made-in-Germany/productinfo/501-0980/

http://www.traditionalwoodworker.co...g-Timber-Saw-56-Germany/productinfo/400-1400/
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The one man is a crown tooth, the 2 man is a plaintooth. A guy named Treeline over at bushcraftusa is a professional filer, he filed one and was not impressed. they are sheet metal, not saw steel. You can make it cut but for that price its not worth it. 270 bucks would land you a small army if axes and saws if you have a little patience and shop around. not sure how much you are into that at this time though, i understand the eagerness.

You mostly see axes 3.5 or 4 pound, 2.5 and hatchets. these were the most widely produced. the smaller companies sometimes catered more to the finnicky. snow & nealley used to make them in quarter pound increments from 1 pound to 4 (maybe higher). It will take more time to find a lighter one but it is worth getting, even if in addition to a regular 3.5. Ebay is a good place to look, and someone on these forums might even have one kicking around that they would trade.
 
Second the bow saw suggestion. I have at least 20 bow saws and bow saw blades out in the shop. I use them all the time and they cut quick and are light to carry. no replacement for a crosscut but definitely worth looking into. The bahco force is supposed to be the best bow saw on the market.

the blades are mostly induction hardened these days, but I remember peter vido mentioning not to throw them out. I presume that you CAN resharpen them with a diamond stone or something. He hasnt followed up on that yet but do hold on to that. Diamond stones will definitely cut them.
 
Survivormind said:
Do you have a suggestion for a saw?
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If you're cutting conifers then get a lance tooth or perforated lance tooth pattern. If you cutting deciduous hardwoods then choose a champion tooth pattern (sometimes called a Tuttle pattern).

Simonds and Disston are two of the better known brands but I've found several no-name saws that work as well.

I've found a huge difference in the cutting ability of a 4-foot saw versus a 3-foot saw. The 4-foot has enough weight at the tip to cut with very little effort. With a 3-foot saw I must use an auxiliary handle in order to bear down on the tip to apply cutting force. With the 4-foot saw I just move it back and forth and the weight of the saw does the cutting. There's much less effort in using the 4-footer.

Another advantage of a one man saw versus a two man saw is that given the same length saws the one man can cut a larger log. This is simply because it doesn't have that handle on the other end limit the motion of the blade. In order to clear the wood chips and sawdust from the gullets (the gaps between the teeth) every tooth must exit the cut at some point in the stroke. Consider a two man saw, with handle on both ends the saw must be at least twice the length of the log diameter plus a little extra in order for the center gullets to clear. With a one man saw you can draw the saw back much further - with the far tip entering the log and the center gullets clearing on the back stroke. It's not uncommon to cut a log 2/3 as wide as the length of a one man saw. And if you have a partner you can still install an auxiliary handle on the far end of the one man saw and use it as a two man for bucking smaller logs.
 
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halfaxe said:
Another option for firewood is a bow saw. A 30 or 36 inch will cut a lot of wood. I spent 2 winters cutting all my firewood with a 30" saw made by Sandvik. The saws are cheap and the thin disposable blades last a long time. Try to get swedish blades if you go that route.
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Awesome thing to consider! I will look at these...
 
G-pig said:
Second the bow saw suggestion. I have at least 20 bow saws and bow saw blades out in the shop. I use them all the time and they cut quick and are light to carry. no replacement for a crosscut but definitely worth looking into. The bahco force is supposed to be the best bow saw on the market.

the blades are mostly induction hardened these days, but I remember peter vido mentioning not to throw them out. I presume that you CAN resharpen them with a diamond stone or something. He hasnt followed up on that yet but do hold on to that. Diamond stones will definitely cut them.
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I'm in a hurry but I'm not in a hurry if that makes sense. I HATE buying anything without doing some serious research first. I'm the guy that will literally spend 100 hours reading about a rifle before I spend the money and even then, I'll do the research, not buy it, do it all again, not buy it, and finally convince myself to pull the trigger.

Frustrating as it is, I am somewhat under the gun. I have about two months to make this decision and start making purchases. That's about as long as I can wait if I am going to have to replace a haft and become familiar with a tool before moving.

Survivormind
 
Square_peg said:
Another advantage of a one man saw versus a two man saw is that given the same length saws the one man can cut a larger log. This is simply because it doesn't have that handle on the other end limit the motion of the blade. In order to clear the wood chips and sawdust from the gullets (the gaps between the teeth) every tooth must exit the cut at some point in the stroke. Consider a two man axe, with handle on both ends the saw must be at least twice the length of the log diameter plus a little extra in order for the center gullets to clear. With a one man saw you can draw the saw back much further - with the far tip entering the log and the center gullets clearing on the back stroke. It's not uncommon to cut a log 2/3 as wide as the length of a one man saw. And if you have a partner you can still install an auxiliary handle on the far end of the one man saw and use it as a two man for bucking smaller logs.
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This is great information!
 
Square_peg said:
If you're cutting conifers then get a lance tooth or perforated lance tooth pattern. If you cutting deciduous hardwoods then choose a champion tooth pattern (sometimes called a Tuttle pattern).

Simonds and Disston are two of the better known brands but I've found several no-name saws that work as well.

I've found a huge difference in the cutting ability of a 4-foot saw versus a 3-foot saw. The 4-foot has enough weight at the tip to cut with very little effort. With a 3-foot saw I must use an auxiliary handle in order to bear down on the tip to apply cutting force. With the 4-foot saw I just move it back and forth and the weight of the saw does the cutting. There's much less effort in using the 4-footer.

Another advantage of a one man saw versus a two man saw is that given the same length saws the one man can cut a larger log. This is simply because it doesn't have that handle on the other end limit the motion of the blade. In order to clear the wood chips and sawdust from the gullets (the gaps between the teeth) every tooth must exit the cut at some point in the stroke. Consider a two man saw, with handle on both ends the saw must be at least twice the length of the log diameter plus a little extra in order for the center gullets to clear. With a one man saw you can draw the saw back much further - with the far tip entering the log and the center gullets clearing on the back stroke. It's not uncommon to cut a log 2/3 as wide as the length of a one man saw. And if you have a partner you can still install an auxiliary handle on the far end of the one man saw and use it as a two man for bucking smaller logs.
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Heavy saws are definitely worlds better for bucking. a longer stroke is a more efficient use of energy.

When it comes to tooth patterns ive found that the standard rules are good *per se*. I have some simonds tuttle tooths that cut pine exceptionally well, and use perf-lance in maple and pull 2 1/2 inch noodles. typical champion tooths dont seem to cut pine well though, only the more rounded almond shaped tuttle tooths.

This saw below shows the tooth shape im referring too. also a good example of a bucking saw, which is an important distinction to make. these are stiff just like a 1 man saw, and the handle can be removed on one end and used by one person. I've cut oodles of wood single bucking with this saw. I will put a pic of a felling saw below so you guys can see the difference.

Picture953.jpg


Picture952.jpg


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Just to be a contrarian, here is another pic of my single bucking with a (comparatively thick and stiff) felling saws. The handle was left on because the log was small and it was rusted on at the time.

Picture813-1.jpg
 
There's a guy about ten minutes from me who has a pile of old crosscuts he's selling. His prices aren't a bargain per se, but some of them are fair. I would swear he had one or two plain tooth one man saws there when I was over last week. Mean to go back this week and buy some toys, will re-peruse the selection for plain tooths and let you know if he has any. If the saw and the shipping were priced in your range I'd grab one and put it in the mail for you.
 
VintageAxe said:
There's a guy about ten minutes from me who has a pile of old crosscuts he's selling. His prices aren't a bargain per se, but some of them are fair. I would swear he had one or two plain tooth one man saws there when I was over last week. Mean to go back this week and buy some toys, will re-peruse the selection for plain tooths and let you know if he has any. If the saw and the shipping were priced in your range I'd grab one and put it in the mail for you.
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This would be a prudent idea. Auction saws are often kinked and have other damaged not discernible via pictures. I'm pretty sure vintageaxe knows a thingertoo about saws as well :D
 
VintageAxe said:
There's a guy about ten minutes from me who has a pile of old crosscuts he's selling. His prices aren't a bargain per se, but some of them are fair. I would swear he had one or two plain tooth one man saws there when I was over last week. Mean to go back this week and buy some toys, will re-peruse the selection for plain tooths and let you know if he has any. If the saw and the shipping were priced in your range I'd grab one and put it in the mail for you.
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Vintage, that would be awesome! I'll be looking forward to hearing back from you!

Also, I like your one man crosscut idea. 4 footer would be ideal I'm guessing. Then I can get my wife on the other end of that thing. Haha! Maybe I'll get lucky and you'll see one when you go look this week...
 
Survivormind said:
Gentlemen, what is your take on the plumb vintage axes? Any experience with that maker?
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Excellent. IMO, true vintage Plumbs have some of the best steel made...ever. Edge holding is top notch. Not every axe is equal of course, but I've had super good luck with Plumbs.
 
G-pig said:
The boys axe has gotten some favorable reviews. for the price, its probably worth picking one up just to get an axe into your hands as soon as possible. If need be, you could hew with it too.
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That might be a good option. First, I am going to keep an eye on some Ebay heads and see if I can pick one up for relatively cheap. If I can score a good vintage, I'm going to go that route.
 
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