Need dog advice

Would you be so kind as to define "you folks?" I'd just like to have it clarified who would be involved with that particular reference, just so I can be assured you're not pulling ME into some childish BS name calling session. It also makes it appear that you have very little ability in regards to differentiation between individuals, be they man or beast, which perhaps could help to explain your evidently misguided perceptions.

Come to think of it, I am thinking of a$$holes now. I'm wondering if I've been attempting to debate with one.
 
Would you be so kind as to define "you folks?" I'd just like to have it clarified who would be involved with that particular reference, just so I can be assured you're not pulling ME into some childish BS name calling session. It also makes it appear that you have very little ability in regards to differentiation between individuals, be they man or beast, which perhaps could help to explain your evidently misguided perceptions.

Come to think of it, I am thinking of a$$holes now. I'm wondering if I've been attempting to debate with one.
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If it doesn't apply to you, then don't sweat it. Interesting that you refer to the name calling as "childish BS", then proceed to do just that. Perhaps you're just debating with yourself?

Anyways, we appear to have drifted off topic somewhat. This thread appears to have run it's course.
 
jiminy said:
There were approx 300,000 wolf-hybrids in the United States in 1994/1995. That was 10 years ago.
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Fine that was and is the most recent number touted by their proponents. They are still a rare breed when compared to Pit Bulls. In theory, if one was to adjust their numbers to be on par with Pit Bull numbers, I'm pretty sure the Wolf Dog crosses would have bite stats similar to the Pit Bull and other large breeds.

I don't imagine the number has decreased.
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Who knows, They could be up or down. They're still a bit of a rare breed in the country. Now, if one looks at various Pit Bull stats in just the various big cities, they far out number many different breeds, in including the Wolf Dog.

Gee, I wonder what breed(s) of dog they were referring to in that last part? :)
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If they are talking about general aggressiveness, who knows?

If they are talking animal aggresiveness, it could be any number of breeds from the very small(Dachshund) to the giant breeds(Great Dane, etc...).

If they are discussing human aggressiveness, It could be any number of breeds as well.
 
By the way, that 'timed event' in advanced obedience school I talked about in an earlier post? ...that was won by a black lab, who slid the last ten feet into it's owner like it was coming hard into third base on what should have been only a double ...almost bowling the owner over in the process. That was hysterical also :) Those black labs sure do have 'heart'.
 
jiminy said:
By the way, that 'timed event' in advanced obedience school I talked about in an earlier post? ...that was won by a black lab, who slid the last ten feet into it's owner like it was coming hard into third base on what should have been only a double ...almost bowling the owner over in the process. That was hysterical also :) Those black labs sure do have 'heart'.
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All of the retreivers are like that. Check out a Chesapeake Bay Retreiver one of these days. They are like Labs on steroids.
 
jiminy In addition said:
Gee, I wonder what breed(s) of dog they were referring to in that last part? :)
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How about Great Danes, which were bred for size and large powerful jaws to go into combat by officers on horseback, and which are considered by many to be the sweetest, most loveable dogs around. Big babies is the way you often hear them described.
 
jiminy said:
What's 'interesting' is that the higher the percentage of wolf in a wolf-hybrid, the more docile it is. The agressiveness is caused by the 'dog' in the mix.

Did you get that? Wolf-hybrids above 75% wolf are more gentle. The lesser the percentage of wolf, the more agressive the animal.
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I'm sorry. Where did you get that information? "The aggressiveness is caused by the dog in the mix." I can't believe that to be true at all. The common domesticated dog is a product of probably 30-40,000 years of co-evolution with human beings. It is a process called Neoteny. (See Steven Budiansky, 'The Truth about Dogs' and 'Covenant of the Wild.') Neotinization is the process whereby, through conscious and unconscious selection, adult physical and behavioral characteristics are bred out of a species through successive generations and the species is then left with, for all intents and purposes, a sexually mature juvenile creature. This is what makes the creature docile and pliable and safe to live with.

You stated that it's the dog in a wolf/dog hybrid mix that makes him more dangerous and aggressive. Not possible by anyones scientific judgement. I don't claim to know for certain what it is in a wolf/dog hybrid that would make him more dangerous, or even if it is, but I would have to assume it would be the wild part of the mix that would inject unpredictability into a breed.

If you take any wild creature, be it a large cat, a wolf, even a racoon as a baby or infant, that infant creature will be docile and playful until it reaches a point of sexual maturity, when adult characteristics start to emerge in the animal. Then, your formerly sweet animal will become dangerous and unpredictable. Happens every time. This is why the process of domestication, or Neoteny is crucial in developing an animal that a human being can live with and be safe with. One that is compliant with human rules, so to speak and will allow itself to be dominated by a human being. It's still a juvenile creature, even full grown. Your high percentage wolf/dog mix will always and by necessity be more dangerous than one with more dog in it.

Again, I don't know where you got that information, but it's very suspect to me.


OK. I see your reference now. Missed it. What part of the article is the quoted reference in?
 
Runs With Scissors said:
have him put down immediately. (this is under the assumption of an unprovoked attack, not the brat next door trying to shove sticks up the dogs a$$ or something)
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You know, I had a boxer that my son would routinely try to put drumsticks up her nose, and she never reacted at all aggressively. Kids will do some dumb stuff, including your kids.
 
I would go to www.k9country.com and use the Breed Selection Tool on the lefthand side of the page. It will give you a good start. I have had Collies for 25+ yrs. I know you said you don't waqnt a shedding problem but that aside Collies are naturally protective of children if that is one of your concerns. The Collie we had when I was a kid would start barking up a storm if me and my sister started arguing. This same Collie ran across 75 feet of yard and grapped the neighbors arm when she trried to spank her little boy. Ebby jumped a foot off the ground to grab the arm and was completely off the ground but the skin was not broken on my neighbors arm. My Collie, Bently would not let me rough house onm the floor with my 4 yr old niece because he thought I was hurting her.

Bob
 
jiminy said:
If it doesn't apply to you, then don't sweat it. Interesting that you refer to the name calling as "childish BS", then proceed to do just that. Perhaps you're just debating with yourself?

Anyways, we appear to have drifted off topic somewhat. This thread appears to have run it's course.
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Perhaps you should have read that posta bot more carefully. My response was not in the least hypocritical, I still haven't called you an a$$hole....yet. Although you've still neglected to clarify your intent by saying "you folks"


Dijos, yes a dog should be patient and able to put up with some childhood silliness, but every creature on Gods green earth will snap when pushed to its limits, and that's what I was considering.

BTW, I think a Boxer was an excellent suggestion.
 
Get a lab mutt mix from your local humane society. They havel always been the smartest and nicest dogs I've ever had or known. Not bred to do anything specifically but be a good friend and play.

Plus you save a poor defenseless puppy from a life in a cage.

N2
 
Runs With Scissors said:
Dijos, yes a dog should be patient and able to put up with some childhood silliness, but every creature on Gods green earth will snap when pushed to its limits, and that's what I was considering.

BTW, I think a Boxer was an excellent suggestion.
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I hear you, no offense meant.

Also, Neko has an excellent suggestion, aslong with some other folks-a rescue animal (be it aspca ot the Swedish equivalent, or even breed specific rescues )are a great idea. You save the problem of housebreaking, etc, and give a rejected dog a new life, for which it will be eternally grateful.
 
Wow, so much differing experience.
When my kids were young, we had a pair of dobermans (neutered, tails docked, floppy-eared) gentle and sweet, great with the kids. They put up with a lot. Highly recommended.
When I was a kid, our family kept basenjis. Read a lot about basenjis before getting one, they are...unique. I love them, not everyone does.
I now have a half dalmation, half something rescue. 55 pound 4year old puppy, maybe not the best choice for small kids, but the most people-friendly dog I've ever known. And they only shed twice a year! - Six months in the spring, six months in the fall!
 
I have had Boxers my whole life. They are great around kids, gentle but protective when they have to be. Also no grooming, which is great. Just make sure you give them some exercise. Good luck.
 
You stated that it's the dog in a wolf/dog hybrid mix that makes him more dangerous and aggressive. Not possible by anyones scientific judgement.
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The facts is, pure wolves are not agressive. The agressive dogs that wolves are bred with to give the wolf-hybrid are what makes the wolf-hybrid agressive, again, when the percentage of wolf is 'small' in the resulting hybrid.

You'd think it would be the reverse. I thought so at first too.

I posted the link earlier. Here it is again.

http://www.nal.usda.gov/awic/newsletters/v5n4/5n4wille.htm

"Some insight into hybrid aggressiveness can be attained by looking at aggression in wolves and dogs. Wolves are relatively non-aggressive animals. Fighting amongst pack members is detrimental to the pack's survival, and aggressive behavior has been selectively inhibited in the wolf during its evolution. However, aggression in wolves can be part of territorial or protective behavior, but is most commonly seen during social posturing within the pack. This type of aggression often appears to be unprovoked, and is an attempt to establish or maintain dominance over a subordinate animal. The majority of human bites by captive wolves have occurred during dominance challenges. Wolves in captivity, though, rarely kill humans.

Dogs are more aggressive than wolves, because they were not subject to the same selective pressures as the wolf. In addition, a number of dog breeds were developed specifically for their fighting ability and aggressive tendencies.

Aggressive behavior in the wolf hybrid is variable. The degree of aggressiveness appears to be related to the percentage of wolf and breed of dog in the hybrid. High-percentage hybrids tend to show the decreased aggressiveness of the wolf. There is an account of an auto junkyard owner who bought a high-percentage hybrid, thinking it would make a good guard dog. Rather than guarding the property, the animal instead would often hide behind the stacks of old cars whenever a person would enter the yard."
 
Dijos said:
I hear you, no offense meant.

Also, Neko has an excellent suggestion, aslong with some other folks-a rescue animal (be it aspca ot the Swedish equivalent, or even breed specific rescues )are a great idea. You save the problem of housebreaking, etc, and give a rejected dog a new life, for which it will be eternally grateful.
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No offense taken in the least. And I agree, a Rescue dog is often the best kind of dog. Heck, my own dog came from the pound a day before his execution. The way he acts with the family, I swear it seems like he knows it too. After about twenty years of owning purebred Newfoundlands I was ecstatic late last winter when I finally talked them into adopting a rescue Lab. They've been happier with him than they have with any Newfie they'd had in many, many years. Although I do think that getting one whos been properly trained and socialized with humans is an important factor.
 
Thanks for that link, St.James.

I read that story earlier this morning. I remember the last line said, "No one knows why the dogs attacked."

I thought, maybe the fact they are pit bulls has something to do with it. :rolleyes:

If a loose pit bull ever lunges at me, I'll open him up like a zipper with my serrated Police.
 
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