Need for Guns?

M

myopicmouse

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I noticed quite a few people here carry pistols when camping, I was just wondering is there much chance of lions, naughty bears :) etc mistaking people for lunch...or is it more a case of rather safe than sorry. And if you do see a bear...(apart from cubs etc, if it's on it's own) whats the chances of it trying to take a chunk out of you?
 
The biggest potential threat most places is not from the wild life, rather it is other people.

Jon
 
I think the main reason people carry a firearm into the wilderness is not because of the four legged creatures, its because of the two legged creatures (man) :grumpy:
 
Why are you going to be worried of people in the woods? they mug you there:) - On another note: bears arn't too likely to come bothering you, are they shy of people (unless comeone leave food out etc)
 
Bear become dangerous when they lose their fear of man and raid campsites or break into cars as people are enjoying their snack while driving through bear country. They have been known to tear doors off of vehicles to get to a pack of twinkies or cupcakes. Most people are ignorant of how to protect themselves from inviting a bear into their camp and they are the ones that get into trouble usually. Black bears eat pretty much everything, just like we do and because they will eat carrion (dead critters), playing dead with them is an invitation for the bear to eat. Grizzly bears usually won't eat carrion, which is why if you play dead with them, they will sometimes only maul you and then leave. But, they will also take a bite now and then.

To address why people have to protect themselves from other people is that there are quite a few of the criminal element that roam the hiking trails and campgrounds looking for whatever they can get. There are few if any law enforcement people in the wilderness, so it's easy pickings for an aggressive criminal.

Every year there are dozens of people that simply disappear and even more are found dead in their camp or out on a trail. Human remains are found often in the American wilderness. That, more than any other reason is why I carry when out and about hiking or camping. I will usually always have my longbow with me too, because I enjoy roving (wandering about shooting arrows) while I'm camping/hiking and there's always small game hunting to put some meat in the pot.
 
myopicmouse said:
Why are you going to be worried of people in the woods? they mug you there:) - On another note: bears arn't too likely to come bothering you, are they shy of people (unless comeone leave food out etc)
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Lots of tame bears in Ireland?
 
A gun,a knife,a hammer,are all no different in my mind in that they are all tools.How a tool is used is what makes them bad or good.We as a society tend to put stigmatisms on certain tools more than others. A gun goes boom,lots of fire and smoke,a single piece of lead or shot makes a hole in its target and causes blood loss and tissue damage.A hammer goes thud,thud and crushes and causes massive trauma,with lots of blood.The end result is the same, death no difference.I carry a weapon as does my wife and the rest of my family,not out of fear but out of self preservation and the knowledge of knowing we are human beings and for the most part control our destinies and will not be victims of someone elses malitious intent.So thats why I carry in the woods and into town, not out of fear but out of love for my family.
 
myopicmouse said:
I noticed quite a few people here carry pistols when camping, I was just wondering is there much chance of lions, naughty bears :) etc mistaking people for lunch...or is it more a case of rather safe than sorry. And if you do see a bear...(apart from cubs etc, if it's on it's own) whats the chances of it trying to take a chunk out of you?
Click to expand...
it's definitely a "better safe than sorry" thing. you really don't know what sort of wildlife or tamelife you'll run into there.
from video footage of a man being attacked by a deer to heavily publicized murders on the Appalachian Trail, it's a toss up.
in the hundreds of hikes i've taken, i've walked (accidentally) within a horseshoe throw of black bears, wolves, giant hives of stinging insects, coyotes, and even a mountain lion on one occasion... and never, in any of those species presence have i felt the adrenaline surge that i feel when i see a "shady" looking hiker walking towards me from a distance. maybe i'm just weird... but personally, i don't think animals in a healthy habitat give a sh*t about you or any other humans minding their own business.
but hey, say you wake up in the middle of a night to a bear's nostrils flaring against your forehead, or wake up to the sound of your tent unzipping, etc, etc... you'll not only WANT a firearm with you, you'll NEED one with you, for your safety mainly, and @ the very least, for your peace of mind.
now i take this for granted, 'cause i've never been in a situation in the wild where i've required a firearm... but when i turn 21, i'm definitely going to begin carrying a pistol when i go out hiking. JUST IN CASE...
 
myopicmouse said:
Why are you going to be worried of people in the woods? they mug you there:) - On another note: bears arn't too likely to come bothering you, are they shy of people (unless comeone leave food out etc)
Click to expand...

As others have said, criminals also go into the woods. There was an article in the Arizona Republic a few years ago about gangbangers going hiking and camping and preying on citizens while they were at it. According to the article these jerks went camping as kids and when they grew up they decided to participate in outdoor activities but also bring their inner-city behaviors with them. There are also drug smugglers/growers and people who smuggle just about everything from illegals to terrorists, at least here in the Southwest. Aside from gangs and other organized criminals there is also the occasional lone nut that likes to cause trouble.
 
A lot of people appear to watch too much television and like to dress up and carry a pistol to feel safer.

Unfortunately I feel less safe when I get the feeling that every second Rambo has a handgun on them and is looking for suspicious behavior to justify their paranoia.

I think I'll stick to countries other than the USA for my personal hiking grounds.
 
Takujualuk,

I'm afraid the factual statistics of concealed carry in the US totally negate your fears. Opponents fought the adoption of "shall carry" laws on the basis that "the streets would run red with blood" and that even minor traffic accidents would turn into old west style shootouts. The truth is that now some 35 (at least) of our 50 states have adopted the "shall issue" concept and made concealed carry easier. The result ??????................crime rates dropped significantly! Criminals aren't stupid; they prey on the weak, easy looking target, given a choice and by definition, those carrying concealed weapons look just like everyone else. The poor criminal just can't tell who might be able to properly defend themselves!!! Don't you just hate it???
Drop me an email if you'd like help finding more info.

Larry S.
 
" I think the main reason people carry a firearm into the wilderness is not because of the four legged creatures, its because of the two legged creatures (man) "

AMEN Brother
 
Takujualuk,

So that you understand fully, in general, we who carry believe that our Constitution has given us the right to do so. The reasons for carrying are varied, but for the most part, we understand the responsibility of gun ownership.

You should watch the original movie about Rambo. The man tried for peace first and only drew blood in self defense. Even then, his motive was not to kill them, but to defend himself against oppression and harm.

As a citizen of this country, I am endowed with certain rights and responsibilities that must be exercised. Not the least of which is the protection of myself, my family, my home and my country. Not only against those that choose to be our enemies from outside of our borders, but also those, no matter their status or position in our country, that deem it their duty to take our rights away from us, making them an enemy from within our borders. This is a great responsibility that the citizens of this country have to bear and even though many in our country take their rights for granted and have forgotten their responsibilities, there are those of us who still hold dear those things that GOD and the founders of our country saw fit to give to us and we continue to hold those things close to us and exercise our rights and responsibilities so that our nation can remain strong.

Yep, there is always a flip side to any coin and our ability to own guns can be and is abused by the criminal element in this country, but like was stated earlier in another post, our crime rates actually went down when more citizens started carrying. If the criminal believes that they will be harmed by choosing the wrong pigeon, they won't make the choice.

I am sorry that your fear is such that you feel the need to attack our people and our ways of life and would feel unsafe while in our country. Perhaps it is best that you not come here.
 
As long as the threat may be around, its best to prepare ahead of time. thats why we read these type forums. Dont forget, President Bush just signed the cops-can carry in 50 states law. Eventually it may extend to all legal carry permits. Then a lot more armed good guys will be around
 
Thanks for the responces, naturally we don't have bears etc in Ireland and was just wondering how much of a worry they are that you think to bring a gun along.

I'll just add that I'm not anti-gun, I'm a firearm owner myself, I'm really talking about the 'need' for it with all your other gear. I also kind aforgot yous ahve amp sites rather than just dring to a deserted bit at the bottom of the mountain and remembering where the car is for the trip back :)
 
I was backpacking several years ago in the NC mountains. For several evenings I had set up camp in areas frequented by other backpackers. I reached a camping area in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The camping area along side the trail was quite developed. There was three sided, cabin style, shelter with a chain link gate to close at night. A sign nearby warned of bears in the area and to camp in the shelter. I arrived about 1 1/2 hours before dark and started to put my gear in the shelter to spend the night. Along comes two college age girls that looked like they had stepped from the pages of an LL Bean brochure. All high end gear, pack frames, covers, ponchos, ect, with short shorts and hiking boots, very attractive. They came right in the shelter and rolled out thier gear, cooked supper and sat jabbering on about school, the trail, guys and so on. As I sat on my side of the shelter I marveled at how relaxed they were, miles from any road or help, alone in the woods with an old pervert they did not even know. One of the girls eventually got up to go to water the lilies. The other girl asked if she wanted her to come along. This little petite blond with a face and body like a Barbi doll just laughed and pulled up her shirt just a little.
"I think we will be alright." she said.
I saw the flash of what appeared to be a Galco holster. From the shape I assumed it held a medium sized revolver. Latter that night when we were settling down to sleep and I made the comment that just because they were armed they shouldn't assume they could take advantage of me.
LOL
I was informed that I was safe from midnight visits. When we packed up and left the next morning we hiked together for a while. I commented on they wisdom of going armed as we walked along. Then came a session of show me yours and I will show you mine (guns). It turned out both girls were packing. One had an older Model 19 S&W while the other had a smaller Rossi .38 Special. I showed them my .45 Colt S&W Mountain Gun and thier eyes almost popped out. They had harbored no idea I was armed as well. I explained that a competely hidden gun is a tactical advantage and they both blushed. I would hate to be the guy that tried to take advantage of them however
 
takujualuk... thanks, just one less of the unwashed masses we'll meet on our beautiful trails!

Well, seriously anyway, ever had a mountain lion stalk you? well, we have 'em out here and they do stalk people - heck,even Californians - one ate a bicyclist a year or so ago and attacked another one, too... So, yes, we do need something other than a Buck 110 to provide peace of mind... But like the others have said, I'm more likely to worry about the two-legged POS stalking me than I am about the wildlife...

And should you ever change your mind about trekking over here...well, you'll soon find out what yer missin'!!!
 
In all my hiking, my incidents where I'd have been more comfortable with a firearm have been 2.

Once was an oddly behaving hiker who seemed to be following my group. Eventually, he was determined to be somewhat mentally deficient and mostly harmless, but had he been a tweaker looking for money for his next hit, we'd have been fairly helpless on the trail if he'd pulled a gun on us.

Second was running into some overly 'friendly' coyotes. Making loud noises eventually convinced them to move a little further off. If they were sick, starving, or just more aggressive, once again we'd have had sticks and knives to deal with them.

The one case of someone else I've known was dealing with a loose dog that had buried its teeth in his leg. He had to bury (and incidentally break the tip off of) a Spyderco (unknown model as I wasn't familiar with them at the time) into the dog to convince it to change its behavior. Another few dogs, as I've heard they like to run in packs, and he'd have been in some trouble without a firearm.

All somewhat threatening incidents, all resolved without firearms, but also each could easily have been worse.
 
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