Negative Experience with Koster Knives

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Esav - see the above....and the "Knifemaker's Blues" thread in my forum.



Some misunderstood that thread...but the intention was to say that I don't like waiting for a custom knife any more than anyone else does. Customers shouldn't have to wait....and I don't like having to constantly update saying "...almost done..."

Changes are coming....and delivery times are shortening greatly. I am shooting to get to the point where delivery is made within weeks instead of months.

Dan
 
For those that have made nice comments in support, or have delayed judgment until hearing from me first - I thank you.

I need to get back to my family matters for today and will take another look at this on Monday.

Norm (or anyone) - feel free to follow up with me on Monday....so I can let you know I did send your check out in the mail.

Dan
 
I think most of us here are in the same boat. Everyone respects what Dan does, fantastic working knives at a great price. The fact of the matter is he seems to be digging a second grand canyon with the orders and the "special runs" that seem to be pushed back indefinetly. I know it took me almost 3 months to get a simple answer from him on my orders, and even then I had to air it out on his forum. Hopefully we will all get our Survivors before Blade '09...................
 
Daniel Koster said:
I don't keep many secrets and am as upfront about everything I do and work on. I make weekly (sometimes daily) updates on projects and keep up with changes, setback, cancellations and such the best I can.
Click to expand...

I don't think we ever saw any explanation as to why the Survivor project has taken so long, for which we made deposits, while you started, completed, and sold other runs. Having my deposit out there for 9 months is not that big a deal, and I figured I could get a refund if I wanted; but it was annoying and frustrating to see other, newer projects take precedence.

Having said that, I am happy with the two Koster knives I have, and still look forward to the Survivor in the new year.
 
Dan, I didn't wait for your side of the story; what is it?

.Everyone does handle orders differently; they fill them.

Why would a knifemaker take deposits and make a load of knives but not make the ones that have been paid in half?

NO ONE knocked your integrity, NO ONE!! Instead, a little heat from dedicated knifeknuts to a knife maker will make said maker a better maker and businessman as they go hand in hand.

Never an integrity issue, at least not with me......................ever
 
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Way to own up, Dan. It's reassuring to see your ownership of what has happened. It also reassures me that I won't be making a mistake in ordering one of the WS&S neck knives you are co-manufacturing.
 
A special order is just that. "Special"

Definition of special (adjective)
unusual; exceptional; unique; particular; highly valued

If a maker took your money and then was selling the knife you ordered exactly and doing so repeatedly while you waited for yours you then need to ask yourself why you sat there and watched them sell when you had every opportunity to tell him you'd take one of those. I am sure most would just do that but that isn't what occurs though. What occurs is that you see them selling staple knives to make a living. It is their livelihood. Look at whats for sale off and on and compare that to your own order and you see they are not so special like yours but each alike made in such a way as to make them profitable. Your special knives are on the backburner in most cases because they are so special. I always thought that went with the whole idea of what a special order was all about. For example, when I special ordered my Jeep I didn't expect them to halt production until they made up my vehicle the way I wanted with the options and trim I specified even though I had several months to buy one that was made after mine but just one of the run of the mill mass produced ones. I waited for my order. And, I had to put money down to get it.

To Dan's credit he takes responsibility for it, makes no excuses and has spoken up unlike others that get some feedback other than positive here. I've always said you make choices and you live with them. If its a bad choice you can only bite the bullet and opt to not do that again, learn from it best you can but do so keeping in mind that you must still move forward.

If patience is a problem after making a show of earnest money and you see a knife for sale that you can get now from that maker just do that rather than feel pissed off about it. I think when you compare it apples to apples you still see that what is sold frequently is different than what is on order from you so there is no real legit reason to be all pissy about that since the maker has to make a living. This should be expected guys!

STR
 
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STR said:
A special order is just that. "Special"

Definition of special (adjective)
unusual; exceptional; unique; particular; highly valued

If a maker took your money and then was selling the knife you ordered exactly and doing so repeatedly while you waited for yours you then need to ask yourself why you sat there and watched them sell when you had every opportunity to tell him you'd take one of those. I am sure most would just do that but that isn't what occurs though. What occurs is that you see them selling staple knives to make a living. It is their livelihood. Look at whats for sale off and on and compare that to your own order and you see they are not so special like yours but each alike made in such a way as to make them profitable. Your special knives are on the backburner in most cases because they are so special. I always thought that went with the whole idea of what a special order was all about.

To Dan's credit he takes responsibility for it, makes no excuses and has spoken up unlike others that get some feedback other than positive here. I've always said you make choices and you live with them. If its a bad choice you can only bite the bullet and opt to not do that again, learn from it best you can but do so keeping in mind that you must still move forward.

If patience is a problem after making a show of earnest money and you see a knife for sale that you can get now from that maker just do that rather than feel pissed off about it. I think when you compare it apples to apples you still see that what is sold frequently is different than what is on order from you so there is no real legit reason to be all pissy about that since the maker has to make a living. This should be expected guys!

STR
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Wow, did you even read the original post? Who defined "special" to you? Did you just make that up? Thanks for your feedback, I think, but if I read this right, I was being "pissy?" And over 108 weeks for a knife is too long, especially when it was promised in 2-4 weeks, and I don't give a crap if it's hand carved out of unicorn horn. If you read the post you would see that while I waited over 250 other knives, minimum, were put ahead of my order.

I made a legitimate order of a relatively standard model. Not all orders on Dan's Order Tracker page are "special." The WSK and K4 were regular items on his offerings, and the copper coating was standard. I don't think switching handle woods adds any more time, or pretty pins instead of brass ones, and I asked for a sheath made by someone else at the price it was quoted to me at, and then just ate it when it somehow went up eighty dollars.

And maybe the reason I just "sat there" was because I knew he had to make a living and cut him some slack, doya think?

There's always some guy who can come up with the damnedest rationalizations to anything. (She was askin' for it!) Amazing.

N.
 
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Daniel Koster said:
Norm - I don't check my work email on Sat/Sun (I'm posting from my home pc). I only responded here because someone was nice enough to call me and let me know about this thread...(still haven't read my email yet...and probably won't until Monday)

I don't disagree with any of the above...I have moved all special orders to the backburner...and am processing/transfering refunds wherever applicable. The special one-off orders are just no longer profitable. I lose money on them...and it wasn't until I woke up to that realization that I was able to actually pursue knifemaking full-time.

The great irony in all of this.....is that I have been clearing out about 20-30 orders a week lately (a record for me) and will have all my special/custom/one-off orders (yes, my entire backlog that used to stretch back 12-24 mos) filled and completed by year's end.

I am now finally in a position where I can catch up on all the old backburner stuff. If I have to "eat it", I'm ok with that. And I don't blame you one bit, Norm - for feeling put off and shoved under the rug.

Like I said, I wish it hadn't happened, but the past is the past and I'll rectify it the best I can. (same goes for anybody in the same position)


Dan
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Dan, I'm sorry it came to this, and thanks for addressing the issue. I thought we were clear on 11/19 that you were acting on the issue, and when I got no responses later I felt like I had to follow through here. I'm glad I kept it to BF and I tried to keep the assessment fair all around.

I think you're doing the right thing in changing your business model, just as you did when you stopped accepting orders for kukri re-handles. Not enough margin there to justify the considerable time spent.

I wish there had been another way, but it is what it is. I consider the matter addressed, and will probably close the thread (now that I know how), when a couple of folks who PM'd me have had their say. Walking a fine line here I guess. Don't want to be a weasel, but don't want to pile on for the sake of it either.

Thanks everyone for your great feedback.

Norm
 
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STR said:
A special order is just that. "Special"

Definition of special (adjective)
unusual; exceptional; unique; particular; highly valued

If a maker took your money and then was selling the knife you ordered exactly and doing so repeatedly while you waited for yours you then need to ask yourself why you sat there and watched them sell when you had every opportunity to tell him you'd take one of those. I am sure most would just do that but that isn't what occurs though. What occurs is that you see them selling staple knives to make a living. It is their livelihood. Look at whats for sale off and on and compare that to your own order and you see they are not so special like yours but each alike made in such a way as to make them profitable. Your special knives are on the backburner in most cases because they are so special. I always thought that went with the whole idea of what a special order was all about. For example, when I special ordered my Jeep I didn't expect them to halt production until they made up my vehicle the way I wanted with the options and trim I specified even though I had several months to buy one that was made after mine but just one of the run of the mill mass produced ones. I waited for my order. And, I had to put money down to get it.

To Dan's credit he takes responsibility for it, makes no excuses and has spoken up unlike others that get some feedback other than positive here. I've always said you make choices and you live with them. If its a bad choice you can only bite the bullet and opt to not do that again, learn from it best you can but do so keeping in mind that you must still move forward.

If patience is a problem after making a show of earnest money and you see a knife for sale that you can get now from that maker just do that rather than feel pissed off about it. I think when you compare it apples to apples you still see that what is sold frequently is different than what is on order from you so there is no real legit reason to be all pissy about that since the maker has to make a living. This should be expected guys!

STR
Click to expand...


If when you ordered your Jeep, the dealership told you delivery time would be a month, and then, two years later, it still had not turned up, all the while they still had your deposit, would that be a "legit reason to be all pissy"?
 
You should know by now that it is the buyers fault because the Maker can just say sorry and the buyer becomes a pariah.

Hang the buyer if he cuts the maker slack and the maker still has not bothered to even start the knife!!!

Bad buyer!!
 
Svashtar said:
Dan, I'm sorry it came to this, and thanks for addressing the issue. I thought we were clear on 11/19 that you were acting on the issue, and when I got no responses later I felt like I had to follow through here. I'm glad I kept it to BF and I tried to keep the assessment fair all around.

I think you're doing the right thing in changing your business model, just as you did when you stopped accepting orders for kukri re-handles. Not enough margin there to justify the considerable time spent.

I wish there had been another way, but it is what it is. I consider the matter addressed, and ask that the mods close this thread.

Thanks everyone for your great feedback.

Norm
Click to expand...

You are a platinum member, so I believe you can lock it yourself.
 
locomike said:
You are a platinum member, so I believe you can lock it yourself.
Click to expand...


??? No kidding? Wow, I have secret powers I didn't even know about! I'll give it a shot, thanks.

P.S. It was closed at my request and STR and a couple of others asked to clarify their comments, so I reopened it once I figured out how. I'm taking Dan at his word that the matter is being addressed, thanks.
 
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Svashtar said:
Wow, did you even read the original post? Who defined "special" to you? Did you just make that up? Thanks for your feedback, I think, but if I read this right, I was being "pissy?" And over 108 weeks for a knife is too long, especially when it was promised in 2-4 weeks, and I don't give a crap if it's hand carved out of unicorn horn.

I made a legitimate order of a relatively standard model. Not all orders on Dan's Order Tracker page are "special." The WSK and K4 were regular items on his offerings, and the copper coating was standard. I don't think switching handle woods adds any more time, and I asked for a sheath made by someone else at the price it was quoted to me at, and then just ate it when it somehow went up eighty dollars.

And maybe the reason I just "sat there" was because I knew he had to make a living and cut him some slack, doya think?

There's always some guy who can come up with the damnedest rationalizations to anything. (She was askin' for it!) Amazing.

N.
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Notice I waited until Dan posted to comment. I felt he stood up to address your deal and that its closed and working out. My comments as a result of that thought were more directed at others saying they get pissed each time they see Dan make another batch and sell them. If I was referring to you I'd have quoted you but I do agree I should have been more clear.

Svashtar I'm not saying you don't have a legit gripe for the wait, the refund or the lack of communication ok? I'm just saying if someone ordered a knife and was waiting for it but then saw the knife as ordered exactly and for sale repeatedly that they had every opportunity to just snag that one. It was just my thoughts on stuff that came up after the original post and forgive me I realize that this is your thread but my post was not directed at you like you read into it. I thought it would be obvious that your situation is sort of unique with the time, refund wait, etc etc and also settled but apparently not. My bad there.

Your gripe is legitimate. Dan has stood up to take care of it so I addressed the other things that came up thanks to your thread. You can drop the defensiveness its not necessary.

STR
 
Would be nice to have the thread open until your money is returned.
I think you were very patient. In the maker's response he wasn't as apologetic as would seem warranted based on your description of events. He alluded to another side of the story but didn't provide it. My impression is that there are more reliable makers out there. No question it's a tough business but most makers, in my experience, do approximately what they say they'll do.
Also, I would add that Dozier took deposits (and may still) for standard models. I wouldn't make the blanket statement to avoid all makers who ask for a deposit.
 
AF - I have been buying knives directly from Bob for about 10 years and he has NEVER taken a deposit in that time, if he did so prior to that I wouldn't know.
I would say please be careful about mentioning other Makers in this type of thread unless you have specifically dealt with them and can attest to the facts.

NEVER give a Deposit or pay until a Knife is Finished!
 
I've have a similar problem with 2 other makers but not Dan. He does great work but it seems that he often has just too much on his plate. With that in mind I'd happily snag something he had ready to ship but wouldn't place an order with a deposit again with him or any other maker. The two makers I'm struggling with now have taught me that expensive lesson....
 
Daniel Koster said:
For those that have made nice comments in support, or have delayed judgment until hearing from me first - I thank you.

I need to get back to my family matters for today and will take another look at this on Monday.

Norm (or anyone) - feel free to follow up with me on Monday....so I can let you know I did send your check out in the mail.

Dan
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Dan, you say it's sent Monday and I don't need to follow up. We're good. I'll look for it in a few days, and thanks for responding.

Norm
 
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