new beside the bed gun

hso said:
Ren, Find a surplus stock for your Mossberg and try your shotgun in both configurations. You'll find the pistol grip inferior to the standard stock for shooting accurately.
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This is true and, while I don't know what Ren's physical layout is, at my house I have three bedrooms opening into a small hallway. From the perspective of maneuverability and weapon retention a pistol grip works best. I feel confident that I can hit what I aim at in the confines of my house. However, you will be amazed at how poorly you shoot the first few times you take aim with a pistol grip. It is possible to miss a target entirely at close range with a shotgun.

I'm not trying to argue this point with anyone, just saying that all circumstances should be taken into consideration.

Jack
 
Actually .223 doesn't penetrate walls/solid barriers any worse than many handguns, but fmj and many .223 hollowpoints will slice right through body armor, remember the shootout in LA that got many police agencies nationwide to ditch shotguns for M16s bc the shotguns and handguns wouldn't penetrate the body armor the perps were wearing. The whole overpenetration fear is very overblown anyway at least with hollowpoints, after a well placed hit only the largest caliber guns would be fatal to the next person, unless of course it was a head shot or something like that, but that is not too likely to happen. However, if overpenetration is such a big concern birdshot would be better than buckshot and a slingshot might be best:cool:
 
victory said:
A pistol grip on a shotgun is a good way to remove all the utility from an otherwise good weapon. Bird-shot is a good way to remove a good deal of lethality.

Put the stock back on and buy some buckshot.
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Could not have said it better myself. Get a shortened stock and some buckshot. Bird-shot is NOT a personal defense load. If you are more than 15-20ft away it probably wouldn't even go through a leather jacket, let alone incapacitate the perp.
 
Quote from the above linked site:

"Birdshot does not excessively penetrate drywall walls. But it does not penetrate deeply enough to reach a bad guy's vital organs. Birdshot makes a nasty but shallow wound. It is not a good Stopper.

Use Birdshot for little birds. Use 00 Buckshot for bad guys."
 
Ren,

Have you looked into the possibility of adding a folding stock to the Mossberg? That way you would have the maneuverability of the pistol grip, with the ability to use the stock if needed.

I've also seen a shotgun stock that is identical to those found on M-4 Carbines, that allow different lengths of pull. I would think that would allow you to just use the pistol grip if it were not extended. I think they may be a bit costly though.


I wonder if there would be a legitimate need for a reduced pellet buckshot load. Maybe a load with 4 or 5 pellets, rather than 9 or 12. The way I look at it, you'd still have the more effective size shot, but there would be less chance of errant rounds penetrating walls or people.
 
maximus otter said:
Nope, that's what the law has always said.

One MP -with considerable support - tried to have the law altered so that a householder, for instance, would not be prosecuted unless the force he used was "grossly disproportionate."

The attempt failed.
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Wasn't the way the law was "interpreted" changed after the Tony Martin case and uproar from the general public?
 
Matteo Escobar said:
Bird-shot...probably wouldn't even go through a leather jacket...at 15 to 20 feet.
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:eek:

I suggest you buy a cheap leather jacket from a charity shop, wrap it round a sandbag and whack it from 20' with a load of No.6.

Then consider whether you would repeat the experiment as the target while wearing the jacket...

maximus otter
 
Here's my Home Defense gun. I just snapped a few crappy cameraphone pics, but you get the idea.

right2.jpg


left2.jpg


holosight2.jpg


lighton.jpg
 
maximus otter said:
:eek:

I suggest you buy a cheap leather jacket from a charity shop, wrap it round a sandbag and whack it from 20' with a load of No.6.

Then consider whether you would repeat the experiment as the target while wearing the jacket...

maximus otter
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Looks like he has an 18" barrel. Take some birdshot, shoot it out of an 18" barrel at a chest sized target from 20 feet. The pattern will be so spread out to not inflict any real damage at all (pretty close to 24" across). If you had on a fairly thick leather jacket I seriously doubt those tiny little pellets would make it through the coat and far enough into your body to incapacitate.

Besides, what are we discussing? Are you really trying to make the case that birdshot is the optimal load for home defense? Buckshot is clearly many times more effective.
 
I think i'm eventually going to get a supressor for it. I'm under no illusion that if i light someone up with this in the confines of my apartment i'm going to suffer hearing loss.
 
victory said:
I think i'm eventually going to get a supressor for it. I'm under no illusion that if i light someone up with this in the confines of my apartment i'm going to suffer hearing loss.
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I am all for the suppressor but in the meantime- those electronic muffs work well to. I keep a set handy in the house... I have fored under stress and its funny ya don't seem to 'hear" the same... my ears never rang after a stress fire with out protection...
 
tallpaul said:
I am all for the suppressor but in the meantime- those electronic muffs work well to. I keep a set handy in the house... I have fored under stress and its funny ya don't seem to 'hear" the same... my ears never rang after a stress fire with out protection...
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Yeah, i have electronic muffs, but my apartment is rather small. If the door gets kicked in i have to go from zero-60 in a split second.

akabu said:
Pistol Grip alone is hard to control unless you practice a lot.Better to have a folding /fiixed stock and pistol grip,that way you can tuck the stock between your arm and body for better control as far as Shot penetration take look here: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm
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Let me summerize the box-o-truth for everyone. Basically, it shows that penetration arguments are stupid because whatever you use will cut through several interior walls, so you might as well pick the most effective load you can. If a pistol penetrates 6 internal walls, and buckshot penetrates 9 and a rifle penetrates 12....who cares? How many people even have 6 parallell internal walls their house? This is why it's important not to miss.
 
victory said:
If the door gets kicked in i have to go from zero-60 in a split second.
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Sounds to me that you might want to spend some money reinforcing your door, so you have more than a split second to react.

You cannot go from "zero-60 in a split second" from a dead sleep.
 
Matteo Escobar said:
Looks like he has an 18" barrel. Take some birdshot, shoot it out of an 18" barrel at a chest sized target from 20 feet. The pattern will be so spread out to not inflict any real damage at all (pretty close to 24" across). If you had on a fairly thick leather jacket I seriously doubt those tiny little pellets would make it through the coat and far enough into your body to incapacitate.

Besides, what are we discussing? Are you really trying to make the case that birdshot is the optimal load for home defense? Buckshot is clearly many times more effective.
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Have you actually tried this patterning, or are you just playing mall ninja?

Here's a link for you: http://www.gunsandammomag.com/long_guns/def_090105/

And here's an excerpt. While this author favors 00 Buck, he also rightly notes:

Wiley Clapp at Guns & Ammo: said:
But to be frank, this is an area where there's a lot of leeway. At "inside the house" ranges, 10 to 12 yards is a long shot, and shot size isn't critical. Even No. 8 birdshot will pattern into a six- to eight-inch circle at these distances. And it'll do plenty of damage, too.
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10 to 12 yards is 30 to 36 feet.

Seems like you're just speculating. Be nice if you had some actual patterning to report. I've read such reports on www.thehighroad.org and www.thefiringline.com and I have patterned #6 birdshot out of my IC 20" barrel about 20 feet (longest room in my house), which is just not all that far. Patterns were tight at about 8". I feel quite safe with my birdshot loads.
 
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