new beside the bed gun

[spyderknut]

Anyone notice the shotgun is sitting on a child's bookcase? ABC Teaching shotgun defense early?

 

[marcangel]

Anyone notice the shotgun is sitting on a child's bookcase? ABC Teaching shotgun defense early?

THAT'S REN's LIBRARY!

First off, "What is birdshot?" around central and eastern PA, it's 8 shot in September for doves and usually 6 shot for pheasant and 4 or even 2 shot for ducks and geese in January. The term "birdshot" just pisses me off. However, with that said I know for a fact that a 16 ga. 24" barreled L.C. Smith WILL BLOW AN 8" HOLE through a car door at 20' with #6 shot. Enough said about adequate penetration with "birdshot". I think #6 shot will do just fine, on two legged predators at any "household range".

Secondly, I really think the stock no stock thing is a matter of personal preference. I've pulled off close in rising ringneck shots "from the hip" without really thinking about it. I've also shouldered on just about anything else. Inside 15 yards, let alone 20 feet, it really doesn't matter if you've practiced. What DOES matter IMHO is the "mean black badass" gun look, complete with the ventilated handguard. Somehow, I just don't like the looks of that if things ever got sticky in terms of liability....

Which brings me to my third point, even if someone is in your house, I think that you still need to justify the use of lethal force. At more than 20 feet, even indoors, you BETTER be dropping someone with a weapon, preferrably a firearm or you are in VERY DEEP MOO POO! I don't care if you live in a mansion with a 50 foot foyer, unless said "home invader" is swinging an assault rife around, things can get VERY tricky. I would be MUCH happier defending my position with my Ithaca model 37 featherweight, as opposed to a "Rambo gun." (Note: This varies with juristiction, in Fla. you could probably get away with it. )

Finally, yes as a CCW holder, I have had the unfortunate need to draw said weapon in self defense. I did not fire, but drew a Sig P230 while walking the 4 blocks to the parking garage in the city of brotherly love, at midnight. I was confronted by a young gentleman who wanted to liberate my Rolex from me. He learned very quickly that when one brings a knife to a gunfight, the best response is to DROP the KNIFE AND RUN LIKE HELL!

This works well for the perpetrator because if the citizen has a clue, he knows for certain he can't shoot an unarmed man, in the back, without visiting the state prison for 10 years and has the added bonus of buying time in escape before a police officer might arrive.

 

[KaBar]

ive got the 590 with that grip, its fun to shoot but a bunch of local cops have converted there with child sized stocks. i think im going to take a hint from them and do it with this one also.

 

[victory]

the reason behind youth model stocks is so you can square up on the target. Squaring up on the target gives you the greatest body armor coverage and best options for movement.

 

[SIFU1A]

FWIW i have killed a deer with #4 shot (NOT buckshot) from about 30 ft, 12 gauge either mod of full choke dont remember which one, but do remember it was #4 12. one shot too. 2 3/4" high base load. so i wouldnt stand in front of a 12 gauge at 30 or 50 feet no way, irregardless of shot size.

not saying that its a good SD load, just saying it certainly is lethal, within a certain range of course.

 

[victory]

People have been killed with pellet guns. It doesn't make a bb gun the best choice for SD.

 

[omaha-beenglockin]

My first thought when I saw the pic---lose the pistol grip.

You have a perfectly good weapon that's useless in its current configuration.


My bedside weapon??? A Ruger PC9 and a couple 20-round Mecgar mags---the rifle barrel zips up the power of the 9mm and kills off the gunshot noise---no need to be fumbling with muffs when half asleep in the middle of the night

 

[hso]

The stocked version allows stable control and aimed fire which is needed at house ranges. It provides a hip braced firing position when shoulder fire isn't practical. Remember that the pattern will not open up much more than fist size at 30 feet. If you are concerned about maintaining control of the shotgun then remember that you pull the gun down and towards you aligning the barrel with the person struggling with you for control then pull the trigger blowing them off the gun.

 

[Guyon]

My bedside weapon??? A Ruger PC9 and a couple 20-round Mecgar mags---the rifle barrel zips up the power of the 9mm and kills off the gunshot noise---no need to be fumbling with muffs when half asleep in the middle of the night

If you ever have to fire off one of those 9mm rounds, I hope that you're cognizant of where it might go if you should miss. Remember this one? "Be sure of your target and what is beyond it."

The same goes for the folks who plan to sling 00 Buckshot through their walls.

Of course, in their minds, such folks never miss. In the real world though, people do miss.

I'll stick to my #6 birdshot. Plenty of stopping power, but it's not going to ricochet through my entire house or neighborhood.

 

[Guyon]

THAT'S REN's LIBRARYWhich brings me to my third point, even if someone is in your house, I think that you still need to justify the use of lethal force. At more than 20 feet, even indoors, you BETTER be dropping someone with a weapon, preferrably a firearm or you are in VERY DEEP MOO POO! I don't care if you live in a mansion with a 50 foot foyer, unless said "home invader" is swinging an assault rife around, things can get VERY tricky. I would be MUCH happier defending my position with my Ithaca model 37 featherweight, as opposed to a "Rambo gun." (Note: This varies with juristiction, in Fla. you could probably get away with it. )

It does vary. If an intruder is in your house in Tennessee... well, let's just say he/she shouldn't be in your house. Nonetheless, positive identification is a must. Firing off pot shots at shadows can only lead to tragedy. I have a light on my shotgun.

 

[KaBar]

I'll stick to my #6 birdshot. Plenty of stopping power, but it's not going to ricochet through my entire house or neighborhood.

"A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs."

"I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds."

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

 

[Guyon]

We can trade links all day:

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm

"Many people load their shotguns with birdshot, usually #6 shot or smaller, to minimize interior wall penetration. Number 6 lead birdshot, when propelled at 1300 fps, has a maximum penetration depth potential of about 5 inches in standard ordnance gelatin."

"If you're worried that a missed shot might penetrate through a wall and harm others, load your shotgun so that the first one or two cartridges to be fired is number 6 or smaller birdshot, followed by standard lead #1 buckshot (12 gauge) or #3 buckshot (20 gauge). If your first shot misses, the birdshot is less likely to endanger innocent lives outside the room. If your first shot fails to stop the attacker, you can immediately follow-up with more potent ammunition."

 

[KaBar]

it dont really matter what any of the links say, i just posted it for reference. personally, ive got a m1 carbine by the bed side with the m16 on the head board