New Boating Knife Design. Marlin Spike??

When I was in Uncle sam's canoe club I carried a 6" fb and a full sized (6")marlinspike in an open top leather sheath made for me by one of the dockworkers at the Subic Bay Naval Base, in the Philippines.
 
gcs said:
Scott, I was thinking of just that problem of where to wear the knife after I posted.
Most waterman wear at least the bottoms of their raingear all day no matter what else goes on or off, and even with the coat on it's a simple matter to reach in and grab the suspenders of the pants.
In my opinion, the best place for an emergency access knife, is on the left suspender, over your chest,(for right handed guys) with the handle facing down.
If the knife is flat and light, it should not get in the way, you could even tape a cheap serrated Victoriox ?sp,, twine knife to the suspender and not hardly notice it.
If you could come up with something like that, maybe the guys will actually wear it. George
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I'm a commercial lobsterman working out of Gloucester Ma. I carry 3 knives when I'm working. A Spyderco Atlantic salt normally clipped to the right side of my oilskins, just under my right arm and out of the way, or in front clipped to the bib of them. I usually keep the knife open, it is a sheepsfoot and I haven't had a problem with it yet. I also keep a Frosts Mora synthetic handle fixed blade in a plastic sheath clipped to a belt made from the suspender of an old pair of Grundens oilskins. This I wear when I have my pullover on and find it difficult to access anything under my foul weather gear. I also keep a Dexter Russell 8 inch carbon steel boning knife in the lobster tray behind me.

keep in mind that this knife will probably be used more for day to day cutting chores so an easy to sharpen, easy to maintain steel is optimum. I'd keep the serrations more of a scalloping than a spyder edge style because I find it easier to cut rope, saw through knots that snugged up too tightly from the pull of the buoy, and maintain in the field than a spyder edge pattern. However, for cutting through a taut line wrapped around your ankle and dragging you into forty fathoms of water, a spyderedge style serration is going to eat through that like nothing. I've found the serrations on the front half of the knife more versatile in a combination edge design than on the handle half of the blade, but for that, to each their own. feel free to PM me or email me with any questions. And I'd think that for 20 bucks, a marlinespike is a good option to have, perhaps make it available if someone wants it, and offer the knife without for a slightly lower price if they don't. I'm sure having one at hand beats having to hunt down that rusty philips screwdriver in the disordered toolbox in the fo'c'sle :D

Pete
 
If the knife is too heavy it is going to pull down on the elastic suspenders of the oilskins, and with a kydex sheath, especially tighter ones, drawing it is going to be difficult. mounting it horizontally puts the knife blade dangerously close to the throat and on a heaving deck this isn't the best place for it to be, and drawing it downwards (if the sheath is worn inverted) is oftentimes how it is done. This works for a lighter knife though in a sheath that will facilitate an easy draw. My Spyderco Moran Featherweight that I used to carry was great, but the tek-lock was too big for the suspenders of my oilskins and the knife wouldn't stay put, the knife itself was too heavy and dragged down on that side, and drawing it, with the give and elasticity of the suspenders was difficult to say the least.

Also, consider, if it is a fixed blade, a double edged knife. I know that they are illegal almost anywhere but I've bought and carried double edged dive knives in MA without a problem. One edge can be full plain edge, and the other edge half blunt and half serrated. I've had a few designs in the works for the last couple of years, that I think would fit the bill for a good fixed blade for commercial fishermen, I've never got around to having anyone make me one :O

pete
 
I like the marlin spike idea...or is it marling? I don't remember. When I did one season on a crabber in Ak back in 1988, I wore two fixed bladed knives, one taped to each suspender on my Grundens (grundies lol). I never used a spike on the crabber, but during the next three years I was up there as a deckhand on a processor and a factory trawler, I used one not infrequently. I have zero idea about lobster boats though.
 
Wow!

Pete that's some good info.

Thank you all for contributing!

Lots of great ideas and important details to keep in mind. The serrations and their pattern I was planning on would be maintainable with a chainsaw file. Gotta keep it simple. I'm with you on having the serrations at the tip. I had a little canoe incident a few years back that required me to slash very quickly at a line. That taught me where the serrations belong on a knife designed for that purpose.

Light weight. That's something I hadn't thought a whole lot about, but you're absolutely right. Its got to be comfortable to wear or the men won't.

The Marlin spike is a go. I've heard enough positive feedback that I think its a worth while undertaking. I'm gonna make it an available option that attaches/detaches to and from the sheath.

Can't wait to get started on this project! Stand by.
Thanks again.

Scott
 
Scott,

keep in mind that if the knife is going to be affixed to the suspenders of a pair of oilskins, the marlinespike should be a tight fit. if the knife is worn inverted, the marlinespike could be lost otherwise. I can't forsee ANY emergency where the marlinespike would need to be drawn quickly. however, drawing a knife from a sheath mounted high (chest level or so) is difficult if the knife isn't inverted (handle down).

Harvestor_17_bib.jpg


here are the positions where I've carried a knife (not including in a sheath on a belt around the outside of my pullover and oilskins) indicated by the blue arrows and the X.

The strap carry on either side needs to be an inverted sheath.

The front of the bib can be carried inside of the oilskins with the handle up or outside with the sheath inverted (outside tends to catch on the trap as you bend over it to empty it though)

On the sides a knife can be carried inside of the oilskins or outside, i've never found a difference in drawing the knife from the side, except if it is worn outside of the oilskins it tends to catch on things and can be lost.

I prefer a boot style clip on sheaths to wear on the oilskins, but it is near impossible to wear the knife (or keep the knife) on the suspenders like that.

I can't tell you the number of knives I've gone through trying to find something that works. if your knife is affordable enough for me, I might just have to pick one up. :)
 
Thanks for that pic. That helps alot. I see what you mean about attaching a knife to suspenders like that. Quite a challenge. Would you ever consider a sheath that you wear on your bicep? It would require taking it off and putting it back on if you added or removed clothing though.

Here's an example:
 
I never considered that. it would be much more secure and much easier to draw the knife if it was sheathed to the bicep. I don't think it is too much of a hassle to take it off and put it on when you add or remove layers of clothes. I do know that where I stand on the boat I work on, I bang into the lobster tray with my left bicep and if there was a knife on it, I think it would be more painful than it is :D.

I don't think you are going to find a perfect solution to it. I think of all the carry locations that have been mentioned, the most important thing should be that it is outside of any oilskins or foul weather gear the fisherman might be wearing.

I think that anywhere you put it though, something to be considered when designing the knife and the sheath is that it doesn't stick outtoo far from the person wearing it so it doesn't catch on traps, lines, the boat, or what have you. Moreso that the fisherman doesn't lose the knife than any danger to himself.

I'm very interested in this project, Scott. if you need anything else, don't hesitate to let me know. I like to think I have some useful experience since I'm a commercial lobsterman AND a knife guy :D. I'm horrified at what some of these guys carry for knives and what they use them for :eek:

The captain I work for doesn't even carry a knife, there's a 5 inch ripper on the helm that is so rusty sharpening it is a job in itself! lately I've just been getting the "here, cut this" line.

Pete
 
Pete,
Thank You for all your help. I really appreciate your time and lending your experience to this project. It won't be forgotten! Remind me of this thread when you see these knives hit the forums.

I will no doubt make several different versions of this knife and also several different sheaths and carry methods. That way people can choose which method they like.

I'm fetchin up on the suspender carry though. If it was me, I'd just take a plain kydex sheath with no hardware on it, and duct tape the darn thing upside down on my left strap! Maybe that's still the best method. Crude, but simple.

Scott
 
...the desert rat sticking his nose in where it doesn't belong, again. What if the Kydex sheath, which needs a secure friction fit, had a finger projection or finger hole near the top so the knife could be drawn and resheathed with one hand and without tugging on the suspenders too much to overcome the friction? My Kydex sheaths pull my pants up and push them down unless I hold the sheath with my left hand -awkward. If there is enough of the sheath projecting toward the "rear" (usually the riveted side), I can hold it down during the draw with my middle finger. If there was a dedicated projection or hole, I could actually use it to resheath as well. I hope this isn't too confusing. Again, just a thought.
 
Hi Straitshot,
Your input is welcome here!
I usually make my sheaths with a fish-mouth opening. The idea is to use your thumb to push off the lip while your other four fingers pull the knife at the same time. It makes removing (and replacing) the knife much easier. You can see the fish mouth opening in these pics:

2busse1.jpg


2eerks2.jpg


ww2.jpg
 
Very, very practical. I like them. I hate fumbling to find the sheath opening when wearing heavy clothes. Yours are like nicely shaped funnels. Best wishes on your project. ss
 
I just took out my Grundens and had a look. Instead of attaching the suspenders as usual, then trying to clip a sheath to that elastic, why not intercept the suspenders? Make a sheath that attaches directly to the bib on its bottom, and design the top of the sheath such that you clip the suspenders directly to it. This would make the sheath almost integral to the bib.

As a biologist, I wear bib overalls for messy boat work sometimes. I usually just clip a cheap knife to the top. I use my beaters for this work because salt is such a killer to any other knife.
 
Another carry position is on the back of the bib, inverted, and outside of the oilskins. this way, even in a pullover, you can access the knife by reaching up and finding the handle and drawing downwards. It also makes the knife accessible with both hands, which could make all the difference in the world if you're holding on with one hand, and letting go means a "gloucester sleigh ride" out the open stern of the boat ;)

This also helps by keeping the knife in the same place regardless of the amount or style of clothing worn. I can't tell you the number of times I've reached for my knife and couldn't find it, because I was carrying it somewhere else :eek: .

and I really like the fish mouth sheath with the thumb push on it. That will make getting the knife out of the sheath so much easier than fighting with a tight kydex fit! great idea Scott!

I think it is pretty good that the sheath style has come up, as no matter how good the knife is, if the sheath isn't comfortable or easy to use, the knife probably will be sitting in a drawer at home when it's needed. That is the reason I carry a folder when I'm working.

I'd really like to see and maybe try out this knife when it's made, if the price is affordable. Like I said, I've been toying with an idea like this for a couple years but don't have the skills to do it myself, and haven't gotten around to getting someone to make a prototype yet. It's about time that someone did it though :D Thanks Scott!
 
Pete1977,
What do you think of this type of clip for clipping the knife to your oilskins? I use alot of these and my customers (and I) seem to like them. I've clipped mine to a belt, sweats, shorts, and my truck's visor. What do you think about bibs? They're pretty tight. How slippery are your bib's? Is there a sewn folded over edge/seam on top that would help keep the clip from slipping off the bib?

kk_cliploop.jpg


Patapsco Mike, That's an interesting idea I hadn't thought of.
 
Tanguay Custom Knives said:
Pete1977,
What do you think of this type of clip for clipping the knife to your oilskins? I use alot of these and my customers (and I) seem to like them. I've clipped mine to a belt, sweats, shorts, and my truck's visor. What do you think about bibs? They're pretty tight. How slippery are your bib's? Is there a sewn folded over edge/seam on top that would help keep the clip from slipping off the bib?
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Scott, that clip would be perfect. The bib of the oilskins does have a folded over lip at the top hem and it would keep that clip pretty secure. The Oilskins I posted are rubber on the inside and out, but most of the time they are rubber outside and like a canvassy backing. It might be a good idea to get a pair, but they run about $75. I'm sure you could easily get ahold of a pair from one of your lobstermen up there, or I could send you an old pair of mine if you like.

pete
 
Good, I was hoping this one would work. You're right, the best thing is to take a knife to one of my buds that fishes and see how it works. I'm sure they have all the rigging, and probably several types of bibs as well.

Should have some answers next by weekend or so.

Thanks,
Scott
 
While you're with the fishermen, see if they'll loan you a pair of 'skins to take home and try on. If they do, and you can get a pair, try putting the knife at as many different carry points and try drawing it to get the feel for how it will work. I can pretty much assure you that if you do it yourself you'll have a much better feel for what it is like, and it might help you get some ideas. I think aside from the blade shape, serration patterns, handle shape, etc, that ease of carry is pretty important.

another thing I meant to mention. Handle color. One that isn't a common color on a commercial boat. I know that dragger decks used to be blaze orange so the coast guard could locate them from the air, and lots of decks nowadays are black. Wire lobster traps in MA are usually a forest green, black, or yellow. I've also seen navy blue, light blue, and white coated wire, and up in maine I think that some guys still use wood lathe traps. Most dragger nets are green, some are orange. On the boat I work on, 600 of the traps are yellow and 200 are green. When I got my atlantic salt, I got the black one, because I didn't want it to blend in to the wire if I set it on top of the trap. If I could, I suggest using a bright color, but not yellow. Bright green or a teal blue might work well. I'd stay away from black because if it is set on the deck or on a seaweed covered coil of rope, it will blend, and we're a forgetful type, and the next thing you know, the knife's gone swimming :D

I don't know if handle color affects cost, and if it were my choice, I'd take less expensive over less likely to get lost, but it's just something to think about.

Scott, I think you've created a monster! :D J/K I'm kind of passionate about this because it's been a pet project of mine for years, being both a fisherman and a knife guy. Thanks for putting up with me :D

Pete
 
I use three different waders (for trout, not lobsters!) with similar suspenders. I have Fastex buckles on each to attach a chest pack (don't care for lumpy vests). Assuming the knife will be at least a variation of conventional, and now seeing the type of sheaths you create, I would like to have the one with double snap loops and carry the knife edge down horizontally on a suspender. If concerned about snagging, I would have the sheath on theinside of the suspender. Knife on one, spike on the other... just can't seem to stay away from this one. Regards, ss

By the way, there really are trout in the desert.
 
Just an idea, but how about having the intended carry method be on a mercharness? You can slip the harness on and off easily to add or remove layers, it's accessible with either hand, it's between the arm and the body, so it's unlikely to catch on something, and if you add an elastic tether to the mouth end of the sheath that you clip to your bib, it will prevent swinging. That way the knife is suspended under your armpit, with firm cord keeping it stable, and an elastic line keeping it near your body.
 
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