New Boating Knife Design. Marlin Spike??

the_mac said:
Just an idea, but how about having the intended carry method be on a mercharness? You can slip the harness on and off easily to add or remove layers, it's accessible with either hand, it's between the arm and the body, so it's unlikely to catch on something, and if you add an elastic tether to the mouth end of the sheath that you clip to your bib, it will prevent swinging. That way the knife is suspended under your armpit, with firm cord keeping it stable, and an elastic line keeping it near your body.
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I thought of that too. The problem with that is if the knife is geared towards commercial fishermen, oilskins aren't like waders. They only come in small, medium, large, XL, and XXL. Most fishermen buy skins a size or sometimes two sizes bigger, so that in the winter, when they're dressed in layers, they aren't in a constricting pair of oilskins. if you've ever worn them, they aren't comfortable after about the second hour of the workday ;). They never fit right, the straps are tight sometimes and loose another. I would suspect the mercharness would be excellent if the oilskins weren't such a pain in the ass to wear. And the flip side is in the summer, they are baggy. adjusting them is a pain in the bum, and these guys are for the most part, minimalists. a harness is just one more thing to put on on the way out in the morning.

I suspect that once this knife is attatched to the oilskins, it's staying there, its going to sit in a damp pilot house or fo'c'sle, it probably won't be cleaned too often, it will be lucky if it is sharpened on a crappy carbide stone from ace hardware and it's going to do things no knife should ever be subjected to. K.I.S.S. is the way to go on this project. Most fishermen aren't knife guys and won't baby this, and consequently, they probably won't be putting on a shoulder rig every morning.

BUT....the_mac has a great suggestion. for the guy who might be an avid fisherman, or a fisherman AND a knife knut, an optional harness might be the way to go, or at least some way to attatch an after market harness to the sheath.

It isn't just commercial fishermen who get entangled or who need a knife FAST on boats. recreational sport fishermen take the same risk as professional fishermen every time they leave the dock, it is only on a smaller scale. While you might go out every day in the summer, these guys go out every day, period. But put it into perspective. If I run across the highway every day, and you run across the same highway every thursday, you're risking getting it and killed as badly as I do.

I think scott's design, and his general idea, is going to benefit many people in every maritime industry, from the pleasure boater to the commercial tug operator and everyone in between.

please excuse my long windedness in these posts. An idea like this has been brewing in my little pea brain for almost seven years and I have a feeling it is finally going to come to fruition :D

pete
 
Pete1977 and I have been pm-ing back and forth over the design of the knife. He has some very good ideas drawn from his hands on experience making his living on the water. I really think we're closing in on a winner here.

The knife will not be something radically different. It'll be a somewhat conventional design, tweaked to meet the needs of someone who works or plays on the water and around lines. In that way, I guess it will be kind of specialized.

All this advice is very helpful. One thing is for sure, I'm going to offer several different carry methods, as I do with any knife I make. If it isn't comfortable and convenient to wear, they won't. Alot of what's "comfortable" is subjective. What one guy likes, another will dislike. Offering options and choices is what puts the "Custom" in "Custom Knives". That's what makes this fun.

Look for something tangible in the coming days and weeks.
Thanks alot!
Scott
 
Scott, you have a lot to digest here,lol.
The more I think of it, P.Pete's idea is growing on me. You can't quite see it on the picture but the suspenders are attached by quick clips, borrow a pair like Pete says and you'll see.
With the knife sheath clipped between the suspenders and the bibs the knife will be in a good spot, and clips are cheap and available.
As long as the knife is fairly flat and not too big,it won't be in the way most of the time.
Remember, we're a stubborn bunch, and cheap, if it's so simple even a Caveman can do it, we'll probably buy it,lol.
You may get so busy with this you'll have to have it made in China, :)
 
gcs said:
Scott, you have a lot to digest here,lol.
The more I think of it, P.Pete's idea is growing on me. You can't quite see it on the picture but the suspenders are attached by quick clips, borrow a pair like Pete says and you'll see.
With the knife sheath clipped between the suspenders and the bibs the knife will be in a good spot, and clips are cheap and available.
As long as the knife is fairly flat and not too big,it won't be in the way most of the time.
Remember, we're a stubborn bunch, and cheap, if it's so simple even a Caveman can do it, we'll probably buy it,lol.
You may get so busy with this you'll have to have it made in China, :)
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gcs - the suspender adapter on the sheath wasn't my idea. :D that was patapsco mikes :D I liked it too.

like I mentioned before though, this knife, especially for commercial fishermen, is going to probably go onto the oilskin pants and stay there. not me, I take it home, things, even in rockport, still disappear off boats :grumpy:

gcs- you hit the nail on the head with the stubborn and cheapness. :D can you say cheap victorinox paring knife in a plastic sheath fixed to the suspender with electrical tape? :D:D $12 at New England Marine and Industrial :rolleyes:


I'm not a knife maker, or even a designer, but this has been something that has been brewing in my mind for years, a useful knife designed for the commercial fisherman. And now that Scott's begun this project, any input i offer is just that. this knife is Scott's knife, and I'm excited to see what it's going to turn into. And I'm definately going to end up buying one.
 
pete, you have contributed greatly with your knowledge. I have a few pieces of Scott's work and I can assure you the result will be fantastic! Heck I may even get one too when some more funds roll my way. Looking forward to see this one Scott!:)
 
Thanks Mike. I appreciate the positive feedback. How's that LUK working out?

Hey GCS. Aren't all of us blue collar New Englanders a stubborn bunch, and cheap?

You can forget about anything I make ever being manufactured in China- at least if I have any say in the matter!
Scott
 
The LUK sees the most use here. More than my Dodo and Delica combined!:eek: Seriously, it's the most functional knife I have ever owned or seen.
 
I picked up a set of bibs (oilskins) today. Here's a few pics with one of my LPs. I wanted to show how this clip will allow the knife to be attached in a variety of positions (front, side, strap, front inside view).

The clip really seemed to hold well. I was able to draw the knife from the sheath from a variety of carry positions without the sheath pulling off the bibs. I bought a jacket too, and was able to access the knife easily as long as I left the second jacket snap undone.

If a man wanted to remove the sheath from his bibs and clip it to his pants at the end of the day, it'd be a cinch. You could wear the knife to work, clip it to your bibs for the day, unclip it and hook it to your pants again for the ride home (so it wouldn't get stolen off the boat like Pete said!).

This sheath isn't exactly what I'm envisioning for this particular knife. For this project, it'll be a two piece sheath drilled and riveted so a clip or tek-lok could be mounted in a variety of positions. It'll also will not have a pointy tip. These clips mount to one side of the sheath or the other, so rivet holes on both sides will allow the owner to attach the marlin spike (in its own small kydex sheath) to the sheath through those holes.

Pete has sent me some very good drawings of some of his ideas. They're very good. I think he missed his calling in life!

Next step-build a prototype or two and test them out. I'm thinking two sizes here. One with a 4" blade, and another maybe 20% smaller all around. My biggest worry here is size and weight. A knife with a 4" blade will be between 8" and 9" long! That's pretty big to be hanging off the front of you all day.

Stay tuned.
Scott

skins1.jpg


skins2.jpg


skins3.jpg


skins4.jpg
 
PERFECT!

Did the sheath pull off when you tried to draw the knife at all? it could also be feasable if that occurs, to put a static-cord (a short one to prevent snagging) onto the sheath, in case the sheath comes free, you could continue the draw to get the knife out of it. This could be done by the user with a piece of heading twine or paracord and probably doesn't need to be part of the knife/sheath set.

I think you are right about the knife length. The biggest fixed blade I have ever seen a fisherman carry on his person was in the Discovery Channel show Lobstermen. One crewman had a long filet/boning style knife with a white handle and a serrated blade in a white plastic sheath on a belt around the outside of his oilskins. this knife was probably twelve to thirteen inches overall and are available at wal-mart, west marine, dicks, and sport authority. Too long IMO. I've used a Dexter Russell High Carbon 1378 wide stiff boning knife with an eight inch blade on the lobster boat for a utility knife and I've stabbed myself in the hand. A knife of that length is simply too long to be used for a utility knife on a boat, and definately too big to be used as an emergency knife. Optimally I think the length of a victorinox serrated paring knife would be perfect, the knife would still be functional as a utility tool as well as an emergency cutter. That was my original intent of the design I sent you Scott. In my drawings, the blade is wider than the max width we discussed, and I think that you are right sizing it down to a more managable length and width. Your width and stock thickness would be perfect IMO.

pete

EDITED TO ADD- I think our blade on the LP handle might work quite nicely...I'm going to try and draw one up. I'll PM you a scan...
 
Go ahead Scott! I think it's a great idea. There are not a lot of knife makers
or manufacters that think about folks that work on the water.
 
Thanks Cleve Loga.

If I yanked it, It slid to the seam, but didn't pull off. I'm used to my sheaths though, so if I drew it normally, using my thumb to push off, it was no trouble at all. My bibs are brand new and slick as hell. I'm sure it'd grip better on a well used set. I like the short static cord idea.

I'm with you on the LP grip, your blade design. I could still add the extended pommell like we talked about, and I think It'd be ok lengthwise. I Just contacted a guy that works part time for, and is friends with my new heat treater (stainless only) He knows there's some work coming their way. He told me they can handle the job, and could use the work. Since he works in batches, I'm gonna make the first one (proto) out of tool steel for testing purposes only.

Looks like 440C is the winner for blade material: .95-1.20% carbon and 16-18% chromium. Works for me.
 
I was going to suggest 440C. it is easy to field sharpen, and is pretty rust resistant. It takes a nice toothy edge and it holds it well. I put our blade on a LP handle, and included the index finger choil, (which we had previously discussed that I had had trouble with when cutting rope in a hurry) and the design we have, the choil actually might work out quite well :D This is fun. I'm in the wrong line of work!!! Too bad I can't draw worth a damn :rolleyes: you get the picture though :D I have looked at your work, and I think that I could have drawn it in crayons and you'd turn out exactly what I was envisioning. :cool: Do you think the extended pommel on a small light knife would work for cracking lexan?

pete
 
Well the prototypes are done. Tell me what you guys think.

They both have 1/8" thick by 3 1/2 inch blades. One has a fully serrated sheepsfoot blade, and the other an upswept regular edge with a serrated upper edge. The sheaths can be carried on a neck chain or by the heavy duty clips.

They can be carried on either side of the body horizontally, vertically, or upside down on the front of the oilskins. I chose red for the grips and sheaths so they stand out on deck. Gonna give them a work out this week.

Fire away.

Thanks,
Scott

redlob1.jpg

redlob2.jpg
 
I like'em! :D

My thoughts on the top blade are that it can do double duty as a small work knife using the plain edge, i.e. rope cutting, gutting and cleaning fish, cutting bait etc, and the top, serrated portion can be used as an emergency cutter in the case of entanglement in fishing gear.

I also like the bottom blade. The knife can function as a utility knife on deck as well as an emergency blade, and would make short work of cutting bait or rope.

Nice job Scott :)
 
The bottom knife is much more aesthetically pleasing to the eye in that handle I think, but I have to say, this being the first time I have ever seen one of my own blade designs (the top one) actually in a real live knife, and I already sent you a PM about getting ahold of one before I leave for Falmouth. ;)

pete
 
I'm having trouble picking a favorite myself. I'm leaning towards your design too Pete because of the two edges. Like you said, there's times when a PE is necessary. The sheepsfoot woud be great for a dedicated rescue knife, canoe/kayaking knife. I'm gonna show them around this week and see what the guys think.

Pete, I sent you a reply to your pm. Steel order goes in tomorrow am. I'll do what I can!
I've got a few orders to finish this week after work, then I'm gonna work on the marllin spike attachment for these.

Keep ya posted.

Scott
 
Scott, I too am having a hard time picking which one I like the most. I'm definately going to get myself one of these!

For my uses the sheepsfoot would be a little too specialized, so when I get one it will Pete's blade design, which is quite great by the way:thumbup: . Edit: MA knife laws wouldn't let me have a double edge like Pete's blade design:( . Although without the serrations it looks like a great bushcraft knife....decisions....;) .

Great job Scott and Pete!
 
mmmotorcycle said:
Scott, I too am having a hard time picking which one I like the most. I'm definately going to get myself one of these!

For my uses the sheepsfoot would be a little too specialized, so when I get one it will Pete's blade design, which is quite great by the way:thumbup: . Edit: MA knife laws wouldn't let me have a double edge like Pete's blade design:( . Although without the serrations it looks like a great bushcraft knife....decisions....;) .

Great job Scott and Pete!
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I'm in MA and have purchased double edged dive knives from local stores without a problem. I have two, one that has a clip point blade and and one with a blunt (flat, like a screwdriver) point. both have serrated spines. The clip itself isn't sharpened and the "saw teeth" are in the middle of the spine, with a dull area between the guard and teeth, and the teeth and point.

I'll be in Virginia though before I see one of these babies, but I'm looking forward to trying one out. I've had that design kicking around in my head for a couple years :)

Pete
 
Hey guys,
Steel is ordered. Should be here next week. Hope to have a few of these rolling off the press soon. Pete, you have first dibs no question. Mike, you're next if you want one. I'm not taking orders for knives right now. I really need some time to catch up on previous orders and ALOT of repair work. I will fit of few of these in where I can though.
Scott

Mike, If you need a false edge I can do that for you too. Personally, I'd carry the double edge and have a good story for why I have it (ie work, fishing, etc). Why don't you just move to Maine anyway??? I can use some help around the shop!
 
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